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Julius Caesar Greatest man in history.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2020 at 20:34
I read the above posts with some interest. Whether Julius Caesar was the 'greatest' is somewhat subjective, it depends on your opinion, but please note the Romans almost named the Principate "The Age of Augustus", Augustus being the far more influential adopted son.
 
However, Caesar was a notable individual. Not for nothing does Suetonius put him before Augustus in his book on the first Caesars of Rome. But did he really destroy the Republic? That accusation was made toward Augustus too. Nonetheless, despite the increasing monarchial nature of Roman leadership, Rome remained officially a Republic until the end in the west nearly five hundred years later. Certainly, although Caesar had little regard for the republican institutions, he remained polite toward the Senate and consulted it on decisions.
 
Yet Caesar was something unusual in Roman history, the only man to be declared Dictator Perpetuo, and tempted fate by edging ever closer to becoming king of Rome - something the elite of Rome would never have accepted even though the common folk were all too ready for something more identifiable than a mass of faceless senators to lead them politically.
 
Okay, he was a successful military campaigner. His victories were not for Rome, one should remember, but an excuse to accumulate booty and pay off the massive debts he incurred running for office. His landmark visits to Britain weren't about spreading the empire - he was keen to interdict British support for conquered Gallic tribes and more than that, find the silver he had heard of (He never found it as Cicero laments).
 
He would return to mount a military coup in Rome. He had to, in one sense, because the Senate had ordered him to relinquish his command when he returned to the city as was both precedent and politically necessary. He then proceeded to loot the temples and public finances. Although he was keen to refuse the offer of a crown, most felt he was only delaying the inevitable, and the whole point of the Roman Republic was to avoid the tyranny of monarchs.
 
A self publicist, certainly, but no worse than some modern characters we know of. A ruthless leader. A vastly ambitious man. A very charismatic politician with the common touch. But the greatest man in history? Only because he's become a historical figurehead so to speak. Ask anyone to name a Roman - his name will be the most popular, not because he was that important, not because he did anything lasting, not because he publicised himself, but because we mention him as a prominent Roman even when we don't know who he was or what he did.


Edited by caldrail - 04 Jan 2020 at 20:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad Watson, Miami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 03:59
Julius Caesar (JC) more important than Jesus Christ (JC)?! I don't think so. Is it possible that JC was reincarnated as JC? Yes. That would explain the karma involved with Y'shua bar Yosef receiving 39 lashes and crucifixion.
GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brad Watson, Miami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2020 at 04:21
The Julian Calendar is under-appreciated. It's basically the Roman Calendar we use today. The Gregorian Calendar only made a very slight leap-year fix.

Julius Caesar (JC) and his advisors fixed their solar calendar and encoded GOD=7_4 - "As Above, So Below" - with its 7 thirty-one day months + 4 thirty day months + February's 28 (7x4) days. The solar calendar adjusts the lunar year of 12 lunar months. There are 4 primary lunar phases of roughly 7 days (~7.4 days) each, thus 7-day weeks & 4 weeks in a 'moonth'. Lunar year 354 days + 7 day week + 4 days = solar year 365 days.

There are 7 moving objects in the heavens seen with the naked eye known to the ancients as the sacred 7 Luminaires/7 Planets ('Wanderers')/7 Heavens: Moon, Mercury, Venus, Sunday, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. 4 of these can't be easily seen during the day/4 don't cast shadows on Earth. The Romans named the 7 days of the week after the 7 Planets.

GOD=7_4
months=74=M13+O+N14+T20+H8+S19
objects=74=O15+B2+J10+E5+C3+T20+S19
heavens=74=H8+E5+A1+V22+E5+N14+S19
shadows=74=S19+H8+A1+D4+O+W23+S19


Edited by Brad Watson, Miami - 05 Jan 2020 at 04:30
GOD=7_4, 7/4=July 4th
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2020 at 01:59
Quote Julius Caesar (JC) more important than Jesus Christ (JC)?! I don't think so.
Caesar was more important. But religious dogma has since raised Jesus to a somewhat improbable level.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2020 at 03:05
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Quote Julius Caesar (JC) more important than Jesus Christ (JC)?! I don't think so.
Caesar was more important. But religious dogma has since raised Jesus to a somewhat improbable level.
We name our dog Caesar and our son Paul. Precisely because Jesus is able to see himself as the other, there is no idea more revolutionary in the ancient world, says I. Wink
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 02:40
So what? Your bias toward Christian themes is meaningless beyond your faith in the whole rotten subject. Jesus doesn't see anything. He's dead. The Romans nailed him up to please the objectors to his popularity as a preacher, notwithstanding some dubious political ambitions. Since Christianity is not a pure religion on its own behalf (Christians and Mithraists shared or stole ideas from each other, so you cannot separate Christianity from its pagan origins, especially since it preserves pagan Roman customs as its own), the importance of those individuals involved in the evolution of Christianity is no more than their historical impact, which for the most part is fairly irrelevant on the larger scale. But you can name animals and people as you will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jan 2020 at 03:04
So what?
Ideas tend to outlast individual human beings.

One can pretend to know there is nothing, uncertainty remains part of the human condition. Why does anyone admire beautiful things? Or why are we moved by loss of life, to sadness or cheers? 

I do NOT KNOW, what I do know from experience is that beyond everyday consciousness we have an extended intelligence.

Right JC & JC- both dead. Do you admit the ambiguity of every line you ever read of Roman history? Augustus and deliberate ambiguity, there is a hermetic connection with Augustus and numbers were sacred knowledge. Augustus wanted to rewrite the past and misrepresent the Imperialism as a Republic, or not, it's all a coin toss. Were they mock -up Greeks? Were they savages who could read?

Not a pure religion? Go on then name a pure religion. What ever that might be. You can't separate the Romans as pinchers of the Greek ideas. 

Ok Jesus was irrelevant "except for the historical impact", you win.
And of course we play with the old number system as much as we like, it's fascinating. 

Why would you refuse yourself knowledge based on hero worship of the other JC? 






Edited by Vanuatu - 16 Jan 2020 at 04:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 02:08
Ambiguity? Well, the Romans aren't usually guilty of that. They tended to enjoy the specifics of fate. It had something to do with morality and entertainment in the storytelling process. I suppose it could be compared reasonably with the arena, in that a man's (or woman's) terrible end is fine because it was in someway deserved and you didn't get hurt.
 
My own disdain for Christianity was nourished by my mother, a pious soul who departed some years ago. She may have had the right motives but her methods were misguided, and once the realisation dawned on me as a young lad as to just how manipulative she was, then her constant lessons and urges toward adopting Christianity fell on deaf ears. You see, I had realised the imperfection, the dishonesty even, of worshipping Jesus Christ simply because it was conformal to do so. As it happens, she interfered in a great deal of my earlier life, determined that I would become a confirmed Christian and do all those events that Christians do. Her disappointment concerning my adoption of a spiritualist type of belief was pronounced and reinforced her desire one way or another to set me back on course, which she maintained until the end, despite my constant reminders that I would not under any circumstance.
 
Quote Not a pure religion? Go on then name a pure religion. What ever that might be. You can't separate the Romans as pinchers of the Greek ideas. 
And Etruscan. And Syrian. And Egyptian. The rest were simply re-interpreted as standard Roman divine stereotypes.
 
Can I name a pure religion? Not as such, although I am tempted to nominate Islam (despite the poor interpretation that radicals like to preach) but that's purely on the grounds that Islam is supposed be based on the last word of God as relayed to the Prophet Mohammed. Truth be told, I'm not an expert on religions, so this is a difficult question for me. Is my own belief system pure? (fingers tapping on desk....). In a sense, in that I came to conclusions for myself, but of course, who isn't influenced by our experiences and education?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jan 2020 at 23:49
That was an impulsive comment, yes bias bc I grew up with Christians no doubt yet the worlds' religious history is worth learning about and deserve preservation. I retract it.
Credit for the idea of self as other doesn't belong only to Jesus, it's older than that. 
  

Julius Caesar is an intellectual lawyer, and a master of ambiguity in oratory the value of being correct but not bragging or incorrect and not yielding. If you believe Cicero he thought JC was better than any of his contemporaries as a speaker. 
The idea that things have two or more meanings is so ancient, Proto-Indo European letters D,I,A,O,U are all shared by the Hebrews they meet at some point with Eastern people and this is the reason the word god in Europe is Deus Dio and variants of those vowels. The consonants change depending on which part of Europe you happen to be in. The first man, in the creation myth is hermaphroditic and doesn't get to see it's other half bc they are connected at the back. God makes them into two that can procreate. One thing is always two things.




Edited by Vanuatu - 18 Jan 2020 at 01:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 03:04
I think you might mean 'E' instead of 'D'.  I am sorry Caldrail that you had problems with your mother, (or that your mother had problems with you.), but that is part of what family is for, having problems with.  You get to choose your friends, you don't get to choose your family (although your parents in a way choose you.)  When I was a child, something happened and I realized that adults did not really know what was going on.  They were faking it, something that even they were only dimly aware.  That does not mean that there was any "bad faith" going on.  Just, the emperor has no clothes.  Parents don't know what is going on, and even if they were "trained," there would still be novel situations, and questions of applicability of the training.

Purity is an interesting (and misplaced) idea for religion.

There were two men in antiquity that were said to understand their own times (probably Plutarch).  One was Themistocles, the other was Julius Caesar.  Philosophers could be said to understand, but they were men of ideas, not of action.  Julius Caesar saw that a republic was too awkward and decentralized a system for the Roman state.  Cicero was a pretty smart cookie, but he was tied to the idea of a republic as were a lot of other Roman statesman.  Of course, Julius Caesar died at the hands of his fellow senators, so one might ask how well he understood.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2020 at 13:46
Yes, the vowels come after the first seven consonants, just trying to show the link with names for god in Europe.

Edited by Vanuatu - 18 Jan 2020 at 13:51
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2020 at 11:30
You might look at Hyginus, I think it is called 'Fables'.  The last or almost the last myth is about the origin of the alphabet.  Hermes got the idea for letters from the shape that birds made (individually) in the air.  Hyginus "fables" is not that well written, but it has myths from antiquity that are found nowhere else.

I don't know whether people have seen the HBO "Rome" series (season 1 and 2).  To me, the most insightful moment is when a slave girl gets too close to Octavian, and he just hits her, because he can.  Just a casual reaching over, and thwack!  No rhyme or reason to it.  That is how Rome probably was, for Julius Caesar massacring the Gauls.  How do you fight that kind of brutality?  IMO opinion, Christianity came along and instead of directly resisting, they did a judo move.  Taking on the brutality through martyrdom, making it so the average Roman didn't understand what was going on, but his wife and his slaves were probably converting.  There are a lot of women and slaves, there are not so many old soldiers (who were inclined to mithraism.)

Just because I admire the judo move that Christianity did to the Roman Empire, doesn't mean I am recommending Christianity today.  I have a certain kind of conservatism, I would have been a pagan in antiquity probably because that was the norm.  Give me that ol' time religion, if it was good enough for Kali, then by golly it is good enough for me.
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