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Chieftain

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    Posted: 21 Oct 2009 at 03:00



Edited by Harburs - 07 Jan 2014 at 22:16
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" Zoroaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 02:20
There is a beautiful Korean Drama about the fall of Paekche from this period with my favorite Sung Yu Ri in it. You can find this here:

http://www.mysoju.com/thousand-years-of-love/

Shilla's betrayal of Goguryeo and Paekche was a monumental event in East Asian history, that tilted the playing field for the long term dominance of Han Chinese in East Asia. The regions of today's North East China and South Eastern Siberia became part of China and Russia eventually. From the position of a competing civilization, the Korean civilization essentially became a subordinate (though separate) civilization to the more dominant Han Chinese civilization.




Edited by eventhorizon - 24 Dec 2009 at 02:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 03:41




Edited by Harburs - 07 Jan 2014 at 22:15
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" Zoroaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 04:44
In fact, Koguryo didn't just disappear without a trace. It has a successor, quite large and influential kingdom of Balhae. Which is also believed to be by some the craddle of later Jin dynasty and Qing dynasty several centuries later.
 
The history of Balhae and its relations to Koguryo and China as well as its ties with Japan is one of the most interesting topic of East Asian medieval history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 06:51
I've been away from Goguryo studies for some time, but wasn't Goguryo a multi-ethnic kingdom whose ruling class were what today would be Koreans? If anyone has that information, I would appreciate seeing what those other ethnicities were. As for Goguryo's military victories, I saw several murals and exhibits at the National War Museum in Seoul. The one thing that impressed me, unfavorably, was the exactness of round numbers for number of invaders vis-a-vis the number killed. I'm assuming that some fo the early chroniclers were a bit loose with the facts. My reading to Sun Tsu leads me to believe that the armies of those years were much smaller, though undoubtedly relatively large for their times. If memory serves, it took nine families to support a single soldier in the field.

Regarding Admiral Yi, being of much more recent history, his deeds have been corroborated by multiple sources. Like Nelson, he knew how to exploit the technical advantages of his arms and ships. The Korean compound bow outranged the Japanese long bow, and Korean naval cannon also outranged their Japanese counterparts. Yet the Koreans did not use the arquebus, which the Japanese did. (The Imjim Wars being before the Japanese prohibited firearms) More deadly to the Korean cause was a dreadful military command system that kept all the generals in Seoul, away from their troops, until they were supposed to lead them in battle. Thus, no few Korean Armycommanders, never saw their troops until battle was imminent. No wonder that in such a war, a naval officer would shine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2009 at 20:41
The following links may give some information about Korean ethnogenesis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buyeo_%28state%29
http://aparc.stanford.edu/news/koreas_ethnic_nationalism_is_a_source_of_both_pride_and_prejudice_according_to_giwook_shin_20060802/
http://altaic-wiki.wikispaces.com/Korean+connection+to+Manchus
http://altaic-wiki.wikispaces.com/Portal+of+Altaic+Peoples

It is a controversial topic. My personal opinion is that majority Korean stock is non Altaic, indigenous people similar to neighboring people in the Eastern coast of China, but with their own language and sedentary culture that survived the Han Chinese integration effort, just as the Jomon culture of the Japanese islands. Similary Uzbeks are mostly descended from Sogdians, Uighurs from Tokharians, Turks of Turkey from local Greek, Armenian, Arab, Balkan Slavic and other peoples with added infusion from conquering tribes of nomadic barbarians, who were themselves of mixed ethnic origins. Essentially there are no pure ethnic groups, different groups identify themselves as one or the other at different times and try to unify their group with some mythological origin meme.



Edited by eventhorizon - 24 Dec 2009 at 20:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Dec 2009 at 13:50
 
S Korea's official publication acknowledges its population migrated from present day Mongolia,China's NE region ( old Manchuria ) and China's Shandong peninsula.
 
 
Koreans are at least 1/3 Mongol stock ( they look it,broad-flat face with over-sized head out of body proportion ).
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 16:57
Originally posted by pebbles pebbles wrote:

 
Koreans are at least 1/3 Mongol stock ( they look it,broad-flat face with over-sized head out of body proportion ).
 
 
 
This statement is nonsense. There was no "Mongol stock" when the ancestors of Koreans migrated to the peninsula. Moreover, this "description" of "Mongols" looks like a quote from the Nazi propaganda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Dec 2009 at 23:21
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

 
 
 
This statement is nonsense. There was no "Mongol stock" when the ancestors of Koreans migrated to the peninsula. Moreover, this "description" of "Mongols" looks like a quote from the Nazi propaganda.
 
 
 
 
LOL .... you meant ultra-nationalist troll S Korean propaganda,they've been the ones propagated " Mongolic " origin of them " pure " Koreans.No " foreigners " ever disputed their garbage littered in cyberspace between 2005-2008.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2009 at 02:00
Pebbles, I think he means that the people who became the Mongols were not at that point in their cultural development yet, much like the people who later became the Koreans were, for lack of a better word, 'goguryons', the ruling classes of which later gave rise to the Koreans and (presumably) the Japanese.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pebbles Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2009 at 10:03
Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:

 
 
Pebbles, I think he means that the people who became the Mongols were not at that point in their cultural development yet, much like the people who later became the Koreans were, for lack of a better word, 'goguryons', the ruling classes of which later gave rise to the Koreans and ( presumably ) the Japanese.
 
 
 
 
Presumably exactly
 
Korean's history annals documented Mongol conquest and occupation of the Korean peninsula impacted the local population gene pool by 1/3.One former AE S Korean forumite " stupiddumboy " wrote it and alos provided the link to S Korea's national history archive online.
 
The truth is the " cyber troll " S Koreans overflate their genetic ties to this vanquished kingdom.Silla took in 50,000 Goguryo refugees,about 50,000 fled to Japanese and nearly 1/2 million relocated to other parts of China.
 
This topic has been tirelessly debated @ CHF and original AE forum between 2006-2007.
 
 
 
 
 
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