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toyomotor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 01:09
I wish we had some African Americans and other minorities represented on this forum.

All too often, as white people from a WASPish background, we discuss issues surrounding coloured people and other minorities without ever having input from the people concerned.

I know we can't force people to join the forum, but having comments from a different perspective would be good for the discussion or debate.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 03:22
It would be good to have all sides represented but I still say it would fall along political lines, not ethnicity or skin tone. Democrats have recruited the Bernie Sanders - "I want some of yours"- crowd to be paid agitators and violent protesters. 
Now they invade Town Hall events as per instructions from Obama's "Indivisible " website. There they are instructed in the gentle art of jeering (replicated to the letter all over the country). Even though this class of agitators should be supporting Trump if you believe the DNC media. You see it must be the uneducated who support Trump. As though big business, industry and the stock market were awash with the unwashed.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2017 at 23:25
If that were to happen, if politics overshadowed minorities opinions on matters directly affecting them, that would be a pity.

We see that all too often in Australia, when Aboriginal agitators put aside community welfare concerns for the selfish political aims some espouse.

A commentator said a few months ago, about the Aborigines, "they want land, money and status". This seems to be particularly true here in Tasmania, where the last "full blood", and I mean no offence by that term, Aborigine died over 150years ago. Seven or more generations seperate them from todays claimants.


I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 04:02
I agree, it's as divisive as can be. None of these millennial agitators even know the history of the democratic party. Meaning they have been on the wrong side of history starting with the the US civil war, the civil rights movement in the 1950's and 60's and now they have bamboozled the disillusioned anarchists into believing that eating the rich will make their lives wonderful. Didn't work for the Bolsheviks or for Stalin's Socialist agenda. Farmers and laborers have a meaningful place in the world but they can't make the trains run on time. 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2017 at 04:14
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

I agree, it's as divisive as can be. None of these millennial agitators even know the history of the democratic party. Meaning they have been on the wrong side of history starting with the the US civil war, the civil rights movement in the 1950's and 60's and now they have bamboozled the disillusioned anarchists into believing that eating the rich will make their lives wonderful. Didn't work for the Bolsheviks or for Stalin's Socialist agenda. Farmers and laborers have a meaningful place in the world but they can't make the trains run on time. 

Spot on. Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 03:00
Martin Luther King Jr. was a republican, which if you think about it, the South was solid democrat and Jim Crow.  So if you were black and political in the South pre-1960s, you would be republican, the party of Lincoln, 'who freed the slaves.'  But power in the South was with the democrats and so it took a Southern Democrat to change Jim Crow, Lyndon Baines Johnson.  In other words, it took one of their own, to challenge the state power structure, using both knowledge of the South, and the Federal power structure.  The Republican were not really in the position to do it, and when it happened, Southerners (unfortunately) came over to roost in the Republican party, with all their hang ups/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 04:24
Yea like sitting at a lunch counter with black people.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 05:29
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Yea like sitting at a lunch counter with black people.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 05:55
National review is another conservative publication. LBJ did not want to end Jim Crow Laws until it became politically advantageous for him. Hillary's friend and mentor Robert Byrd was KKK member and recruiter.

Is it fair to remind people of the awful historical antecedents that can lurk within a political party? The study quotes author Bruce Bartlett as asking, “If the Republican party is to bear responsibility for Joe McCarthy through all time, why doesn’t the Democratic party have to bear responsibility for a century of racist leaders?” The majority of the ACRU study focuses on the horror of Jim Crow, which at its core was a system of state-enforced laws that relegated blacks to inferior status. When police enforcement wasn’t enough, lynchings were used to keep Jim Crow in place. At least 3,500 blacks were lynched during the Jim Crow years, and people were murdered right up through the mid 1960s. But the political enforcement of Jim Crow was entirely in Democratic hands. The Ku Klux Klan functioned as the paramilitary wing of the Democratic party, and it was used to drive Republicans out of the South after the Civil War. Before he took up the cause of civil rights as president, Lyndon Johnson acting as Senate majority leader blocked the GOP’s 1956 civil-rights bill, and gutted Eisenhower’s 1957 Civil Rights Act. Democratic senators filibustered the GOP’s 1960 Civil Rights Act.

Read more at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/383357/setting-record-straight-jim-crow-john-fund
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 14:03
Yes, and I suppose WASPs must be close to becoming a minority too.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 15:06
Yea it's just evolution I suppose. Do you think it will lead to (more) discrimination against whites?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 01:04
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Yea it's just evolution I suppose. Do you think it will lead to (more) discrimination against whites?

Yes, possibly. Coloured people and Hispanics have long been discriminated against in the US. In Europe it's the South Asians (Indian, Pakistanis) and the Eastern Europeans, including the Romany.

In Australia, there is no general discrimination, I don't think, but there is discrimination against almost everyone at some stages, and in some pockets. Asians, Aborigines and Muslims have replaced the English as our most disliked people. 

Surprisingly, I think, the European influx to Australia following WW2, was accepted without much, if any fuss.

But I don't have any idea what could happen in Australia where, I hope, wer'e a more tolerant society overall.

I simply can't tolerate intolerant people!!Wink



Edited by toyomotor - 28 Feb 2017 at 01:57
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 01:54
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Yea it's just evolution I suppose. Do you think it will lead to (more) discrimination against whites?

Yes, possibly. Coloured people and Hispanics have long been discriminated against in the US. In Europe it's the South Asians (Indian, Pakistanis) and the Eastern Europeans, including the Romany.

In Australia, there is no general discrimination, I don't think, but there is discrimination against almost everyone at some stages, and in some pockets. Asians, Aborigines and Muslims have replaced the English as our most disliked people. 

Surprisingly, I think, the European influx to Australia following WW2, was accepted without much, if any fuss.

But I don't have any idea what could happen in Australia where, I hope, were are a more tolerant society overall.

I simply can't tolerate intolerant people!!Wink


I agree no general discrimination where I am. In some areas yes but most blacks here are educated, easy to get an associate degree for $0. The trouble is that the state has a list of homeless from Boston and elsewhere they get shuffled and shipped off whenever a space is available. 
These characters have trouble orbiting them. I find it's the people who have no roots here, don't care about the neighborhood and so they are volatile.  
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 02:02
Quote
 I find it's the people who have no roots here, don't care about the neighborhood and so they are volatile. 

That certainly seems to be the case in Australia where it's the second or third generation refugees who seem to be disconnected, throwing off the yoke of parental and cultural restraint.

I don't think the fact that they are allowed to settle into ethnic enclaves is a good idea either.

The post WW2 refugees initially did this, but then quickly assimilated into the broader community, perhaps this is why they are not the subject of racism.

People fear what they don't understand. Case in point, Islam.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 06:20
I saw some little children today at their school. There were Africans, Asians and of course those of European descent. As they formed a line to walk back to their schoolroom, they unashamedly chatted and held hands with the other kids. No discrimination here, black kids holding the hands of an Asian child, Asians holding the hand of Europeans, and so on.

Isn't it a pity that adults couldn't be the same.

These children haven't learned to hate yet, and, may they never learn to hate.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 12:09
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

I saw some little children today at their school. There were Africans, Asians and of course those of European descent. As they formed a line to walk back to their schoolroom, they unashamedly chatted and held hands with the other kids. No discrimination here, black kids holding the hands of an Asian child, Asians holding the hand of Europeans, and so on.

Isn't it a pity that adults couldn't be the same.

These children haven't learned to hate yet, and, may they never learn to hate.

Thanks, what a beautiful image comes to mind. It's their time, this generation "Z" we can't even imagine their thinking. Hard wired for writing code and the old signs of class divisions are fading away.

I think of Pope Benedict, one of Hitler's youth, amazed that he was made pope. Always wondered if he felt unacceptable in that position. Never got the sense of humanity in him that Francis clearly expresses. Maybe Benedict just doesn't have that kind of juice. He had hate seeded into him. Even if he rejected it all, he must have bought into the Nazi ethos at the time.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 12:20
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote
 I find it's the people who have no roots here, don't care about the neighborhood and so they are volatile. 

That certainly seems to be the case in Australia where it's the second or third generation refugees who seem to be disconnected, throwing off the yoke of parental and cultural restraint.

I don't think the fact that they are allowed to settle into ethnic enclaves is a good idea either.

The post WW2 refugees initially did this, but then quickly assimilated into the broader community, perhaps this is why they are not the subject of racism.

People fear what they don't understand. Case in point, Islam.

Jihad has changed things. I've always seen ethnic neighborhoods thrive. Imagine you don't speak the language of this new country your living in but all your family is around, enough of them can speak and the little ones learn at school. Everyone of working age has a job and no one ever pays for childcare or eldercare. In a decade your family owns several multiple-unit tenement houses, so you have that income as well as paychecks from say 10 adults. All living together paying their taxes, caring for their property and being good neighbors. 

There's a linguistic phenomenon observed all over the world, even English speakers living on the fringes of society come up with their own speech and haunt their own places. So language isn't the problem it's got to be ideology. What happens when even the police won't enter a neighborhood? That's taking over and I don't like the idea of it anymore.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 19:42
yah, kids.  why can't I get out of my head William Golding's "Lord of Flies"? Viking

Jihad means "struggle" but the violent jihadists have taken it to mean violent struggle.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2017 at 00:02
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

yah, kids.  why can't I get out of my head William Golding's "Lord of Flies"? Viking

Jihad means "struggle" but the violent jihadists have taken it to mean violent struggle.

I don't know do you like the idea of little boys running around with nothing on? And one has asthmarr he'd be easy to catch.Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2017 at 06:33
I don't have an especially positive view of chasing naked, asthmatic young boys, or girls either for that matter.

I decline to make any comment about their mothers-I'm taking the 5th.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2017 at 22:46
no, no, no.
Having been a boy once myself, many of them are barbarians at heart, with a thin veneer of civilization.  I know of the story of the "Lord of Flies" by reputation, having never read the book, nor seen the movie.  I plane crash or shipwreck strands a group of boys on a deserted island, where they become tribal, go wild and turn on the weakest.  Kind of sounds like a certain president.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2017 at 23:20
Poor you, wonder why you would comment on Golding to explain the meaning of jihad. Jihad has meant violence as long as I've known the word and neither Trump nor Golding nor Piggy for that matter had any part of the jihad. Muhammad told his followers to kill the infidels, that is their struggle. Violence is devotion to the jihadist, don't you get that?

Certainly took the long boat to stab at Trump. Kind of Rachael Maddow 'nothing burger' as the fake press is fond of saying-turns out Trump paid 36 million$ in taxes 2005 shocking!!!


Rachel Maddow's "bombshell" about President Donald Trump's tax returns turned out to be a bit of a dud.

On her MSNBC show, Maddow reported on two pages of Trump's 2005 return, showing that he made $153 million in 2005 and paid $36.5 million in income taxes ($38 million in total taxes).

Maddow was slammed for overhyping the underwhelming report, which the Washington Post called a "total nothingburger."

On "America's News HQ" today, Geraldo Rivera said Maddow had her own "Al Capone's vault" moment.



Edited by Vanuatu - 19 Mar 2017 at 20:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 12:50
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

no, no, no.
 

What do you mean, "No,no,no?"

Regardless of whether you, as a young boy, were a barbarian or not, I have never harboured a predlection to chase naked young boys who are also asthmatics, or naked young girls either. Girls over the age of consent, maybe, when I was a young buck.

Quote  A plane crash or shipwreck strands a group of boys on a deserted island, where they become tribal, go wild and turn on the weakest.  Kind of sounds like a certain president.

Might be a good idea if you didn't continually try to provoke Vanuatu, who I strongly suspect is a  Trump supporter. Rather then engage in vitriol with her over him, I've decided to be somewhat more circumspect.

Disagree with her views, but respect them all the same.Thumbs Up



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 16:24
The problem with the left is that when you present facts to them countering their opinion or set of predisposed beliefs they in turn bunker down on those beliefs rather than changing their mind. I understand beliefs but I don't understand blind fervor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 22:23
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

The problem with the left is that when you present facts to them countering their opinion or set of predisposed beliefs they in turn bunker down on those beliefs rather than changing their mind. I understand beliefs but I don't understand blind fervor. 

Doofus???

I don't understand blind fervour either.

Perhaps I'd be on safer ground if I bowed out of conversations concerning the 45th POTUS.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 22:27
I mean the boys in the movie are all wearing shorts, as much as I have seen the movie, which the story doesn't interest me.

I don't have a problem with Vanuatu supporting Donald Trump, I worry that she may be mistaken in her beliefs in his benevolence, but only time will tell.  Who knows, maybe something will go horribly 'right ' with Trump's presidency, despite his belligerent rhetoric.

Es_bih
I tend to think belief systems are huge and therefore quite tough.  It is like attacking a whale with a small pocket knife, you just cannot do that much damage.  The left also seems to think the right is heartless, therefore they suspect the right of rationalize their bad behavior.  Malthus thought that Godwin and Condorcet were wrong, whereas Godwin and Condorcet thought that Malthus was malicious, and sub-human (Sowell).  Just because one cannot see the holes in a rational argument, does not mean they are not there.  If you think someone is trying to get one up on you (outflank you), you are going to be suspicious of their argument no matter what.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 00:55
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I mean the boys in the movie are all wearing shorts, as much as I have seen the movie, which the story doesn't interest me.

I don't have a problem with Vanuatu supporting Donald Trump, I worry that she may be mistaken in her beliefs in his benevolence, but only time will tell.  Who knows, maybe something will go horribly 'right ' with Trump's presidency, despite his belligerent rhetoric.

Franciscosan, you brought Trump into this discussion. You seem less worried and more hopeful that I'm mistaken, you would have some fun with it, admit it Wink

I think Trump is less benevolent and more fortune's pet. You know who was first described as too big to fail? Yep, the Orange one. He owed so much money in the 1990's to so many banks that as much as they wanted to shut him down, they couldn't bc he would have dragged them all down too.

They had to keep loaning him money and eventually it all worked out pretty well for him and the vampiric banks.  And at his age to be elected president, he deserves some props.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 01:01
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

The problem with the left is that when you present facts to them countering their opinion or set of predisposed beliefs they in turn bunker down on those beliefs rather than changing their mind. I understand beliefs but I don't understand blind fervor. 

Doofus???

I don't understand blind fervour either.

Perhaps I'd be on safer ground if I bowed out of conversations concerning the 45th POTUS.

You don't have to bow out, I enjoy an opportunity to pump up Trump. I don't need to go on about him everyday but when you stab at him I get to defend him which has become enjoyable. When you reject points that I make on Trump it doesn't make me less correct. 

Let me help you Hug embrace the Trump. 


Edited by Vanuatu - 20 Mar 2017 at 01:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 01:19
Quote Let me help you Hug embrace the Trump.

Sheesh!!!

I think I'd rather chew my arm off, as an American judge famously said about a rape victim.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2017 at 02:15
toyomotor, would you share a bit about your regional politics?  Who do you typically support, liberal or conservative politicians?
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