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Missionary abused indigenous girls in the Amazon

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    Posted: 14 May 2014 at 12:05
The opresssion from missionaries continues.


"Florida missionary sentenced to 58 years in prison for sexually abusing indigenous girls in Amazon.

Warren Scott Kennell, 45, befriended the girls of the Katukina tribe in Brazil and abused them over several years. Homeland Security were tipped off that he posted pictures on child porn site and he was arrested in May 2013."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/missionary-sentenced-sexually-abusing-girls-amazon-article-1.1596392








Edited by Carcharodon - 24 May 2014 at 11:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 14:53
Just another case of gross breach of trust.
 
I wish the rest of the world would view similar cases with the same sense of outrage, and sentence the guilty bastards accordingly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 2014 at 20:01
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Just another case of gross breach of trust.
 

I wish the rest of the world would view similar cases with the same sense of outrage, and sentence the guilty bastards accordingly.



Agreed.

It does not help though, with an attitude that 'all' are or might be, inclusive. As evidenced by statements like: ''The opresssion from missionaries continues''.


This is not only a lie-misrepresentation..but and ill informed, if not bigoted, lie-misrepresentation as well.

In this particular case the sentence was to light. afaic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 03:40
Religion should be forbidden. And preaching it, should be condemned with jail.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 05:06
And intolerance of individual freedoms, to include religious, should be ignored and refuted. As much as any other form of bigotry. And the bigots who espouse it... in particular.

You remain dismissed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 07:48
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Religion should be forbidden. And preaching it, should be condemned with jail.


 
You really are a funny fellow. Especially coming from a Catholic country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 13:09
Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:


It does not help though, with an attitude that 'all' are or might be, inclusive. As evidenced by statements like: ''The opresssion from missionaries continues''.


This is not only a lie-misrepresentation..but and ill informed, if not bigoted, lie-misrepresentation as well.

In this particular case the sentence was to light. afaic.


Unfortunately the christian missions in America have a 500 year long history of opression, abuse, slavery and cultural genocide. They have been instrumental in the subjugation of native American peoples both in North and South America, and they can be said to be responsible for the extinction of whole peoples and cultures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2014 at 18:49
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:


It does not help though, with an attitude that 'all' are or might be, inclusive. As evidenced by statements like: ''The opresssion from missionaries continues''.


This is not only a lie-misrepresentation..but and ill informed, if not bigoted, lie-misrepresentation as well.

In this particular case the sentence was to light. afaic.




Unfortunately the christian missions in America have a 500 year long history of opression, abuse, slavery and cultural genocide. They have been instrumental in the subjugation of native American peoples both in North and South America, and they can be said to be responsible for the extinction of whole peoples and cultures.





You are correct in part if you refer to the colonialistic history and development of the new world. But that is not what your op is in reference too. Nor does your initial comment leave any other objective analysis-interpretation; other than that defined as a bigot. anti religious bigot. And you can blame yourself. Because it was your words which ascribed in totality the evil actions of one to all...which remains a blatant misrepresentation.

It was a misrepresentation (albeit lesser) 500 years ago and its a misrepresentation today.

It's akin to a statement that I might make, in generalization, that all white northern Europeans are and have been craven, gutless, military cowards for the last 50 years.

And that would be clearly a misrepresentation.

The only thing I don't know is whether your anti religious bigotry is deliberate, merely based on ignorance; or an error in what you attempted to convey.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume it was the latter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 06:00
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

 
You really are a funny fellow. Especially coming from a Catholic country.


You should be aware that the worst atheists come from Catholic countries.

As we say: "I am atheistic thanks to God!!!" LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 06:02
Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:

And intolerance of individual freedoms, to include religious, should be ignored and refuted. As much as any other form of bigotry. And the bigots who espouse it... in particular.

You remain dismissed.


I have the conviction that washing minds of people is a crime against humanity.

Anyways, I have hope that with time people will abandon religion by theirs own will.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 06:03
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Unfortunately the christian missions in America have a 500 year long history of opression, abuse, slavery and cultural genocide. They have been instrumental in the subjugation of native American peoples both in North and South America, and they can be said to be responsible for the extinction of whole peoples and cultures.


The conquest by the sword and the cross!!

Glad to see you are still around, Carcharodon!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 06:54
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:


Unfortunately the christian missions in America have a 500 year long history of opression, abuse, slavery and cultural genocide. They have been instrumental in the subjugation of native American peoples both in North and South America, and they can be said to be responsible for the extinction of whole peoples and cultures.


The conquest by the sword and the cross!!

Glad to see you are still around, Carcharodon!!
I
 
agree with you, Holy Mother Church has a lot to answer for over the centuries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 13:11
Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:





You are correct in part if you refer to the colonialistic history and development of the new world. But that is not what your op is in reference too. Nor does your initial comment leave any other objective analysis-interpretation; other than that defined as a bigot. anti religious bigot. And you can blame yourself. Because it was your words which ascribed in totality the evil actions of one to all...which remains a blatant misrepresentation.

It was a misrepresentation (albeit lesser) 500 years ago and its a misrepresentation today.

It's akin to a statement that I might make, in generalization, that all white northern Europeans are and have been craven, gutless, military cowards for the last 50 years.

And that would be clearly a misrepresentation.

The only thing I don't know is whether your anti religious bigotry is deliberate, merely based on ignorance; or an error in what you attempted to convey.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume it was the latter.


There is no bigotry from my side, I´m just telling the truth about 500 years of religious imperialism (that went hand in hand with colonialism, slavery, opression and subjugation). The examples are plentiful and stretches from the beginning of colonisation into our own time. Just read some literature about these things and you can see for yourself. For example read Bonillas book "Servants of God or Masters of men?", or Costos "California Missions,- a legacy of Genocide" and other similar books. It will perhaps open your Eyes for a rather terrifying history of ethnocide and genocide.
You just have to realize that missionaries are a part of a legacy of colonialism, opression and sometimes genocide.

And in all this sexual abuse has always been one of the ways to subjugate the native peoples.

Edited by Carcharodon - 16 May 2014 at 13:16
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 13:14
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Glad to see you are still around, Carcharodon!!


The same to you Pinguin!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2014 at 19:06
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by Arlington Arlington wrote:





You are correct in part if you refer to the colonialistic history and development of the new world. But that is not what your op is in reference too. Nor does your initial comment leave any other objective analysis-interpretation; other than that defined as a bigot. anti religious bigot. And you can blame yourself. Because it was your words which ascribed in totality the evil actions of one to all...which remains a blatant misrepresentation.

It was a misrepresentation (albeit lesser) 500 years ago and its a misrepresentation today.

It's akin to a statement that I might make, in generalization, that all white northern Europeans are and have been craven, gutless, military cowards for the last 50 years.

And that would be clearly a misrepresentation.

The only thing I don't know is whether your anti religious bigotry is deliberate, merely based on ignorance; or an error in what you attempted to convey.

I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and assume it was the latter.


There is no bigotry from my side, I´m just telling the truth about 500 years of religious imperialism (that went hand in hand with colonialism, slavery, opression and subjugation). The examples are plentiful and stretches from the beginning of colonisation into our own time. Just read some literature about these things and you can see for yourself. For example read Bonillas book "Servants of God or Masters of men?", or Costos "California Missions,- a legacy of Genocide" and other similar books. It will perhaps open your Eyes for a rather terrifying history of ethnocide and genocide.
You just have to realize that missionaries are a part of a legacy of colonialism, opression and sometimes genocide.

And in all this sexual abuse has always been one of the ways to subjugate the native peoples.



The bigotry is not, in totality, a challenge of or to the veracity of your statement in this or the previous post.

You have been challenged as to your op. And there your language clearly defines you as a bigot.

As this remains a blatant misrepresentation...distortion. As you continue to define all missionary activity as evil without the apparent ability to differentiate collective versus individual behavior. Or provide sources and examples of counter.

And even if I were willing to drift off onto the straw man tangent stream you have thrown up to defend your bigotry reference your op.. and I will not; to any great degree. You remain an ill informed nor objective student of missionary activities to include those in the current contextual era.

You are concentrating on, or at it least appears that way to me, a generalized time period in which no doubt abuse occurred. You have failed at this point, otoh, again, to objectively offer counter sources. Or are unwilling to investigate and acknowledge the missionary efforts which have rendered aid and a general good. And increased the quality of life for natives in this era; and that previous, for that matter as well.

Fr. Padilla, Marquette and Kino spring to mind. Fr. Biard and Rale. Fr. Barcena, Angulo, Bolanos and Fr. Francis Solanus and Fr. Torres. Just a few of many notables who educated, provide health care, promoted agriculture and industry, supported intermarriage, denounced arbitrary violence and rape; and demanded better treatment of their charges from lay and secular rulers alike. Especially versus those whose attitude led to the climate of total enslavement and exploitation (virtually the entire ruling elite of the colonial-expansionism time).

Of more recent times, are the examples of Bishop Pellotte, Diocese of New Mexico. And the good works found at Holy Rosary/Red Cloud School on Pine Ridge, SD. Or the Apache Lutheran Mission at White Mountain-San Carlos. And the efforts of Baptist missions at the Mescalero and the Hedrina Hosper sisters on the Jicarilla. Again a mere handful of hundreds.

There are and were many if not thousands of devout Christian missionaries from then to now which have/had advocated humane treatment and efforts to better the conditions of the original colonialist occupied subjects; from north to south America. In colonial times, the Jesuits for example led this effort.

And, as noted above, this has continued to the present.

No, your problem-error-misrepresentation and bigotry; remains your unwillingness to differentiate contextual time periods, social and cultural conditions and attitudes. And a willingness to 'generalize and assign responsibility and fault collectively'.

Without identifying the individual responsibility, pro or con, as well. In more than just a cursory fashion. Which you have not even attempted. And again in particular, in ignoring efforts to counter those which were or can indeed be considered heinous from the context of then...versus the current time context.

This alone makes you a bigot and a poor student of history. And your misrepresentations must then be identified and refuted. Your clearly identified anti Christian agenda must then also be refuted.

Not because your not entitled to one if that's what you desire. But because as a historian, lay or professional, objectivity in examination remains the key to accuracy and veracity.

And your failing the test at this point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 12:20
Ofcourse there can have been some individuals missionaires who have achived something good or valuable but in general one can say that missionaires have caused more harm than good for the native American societies. As I said there are to many examples of ethnocide, cultural imperialism, religious opression and abuse to actually see the missions as something good.

And if one shall explore the roots of the problem one can see that the idea of mission in itself are flawed. It is a part of an imperialistic notion that the christian religion in itsels should be better or more true than other religions and belief systems. Such idea reeks with arrogance and ethnocentrism and give rise to opressive behavious against indigenous populations.

About the special case in the op one can see that the missionaire in qustion has been a member of New Tribes Mission, a bizarre sect WHOs objective is to destroy other peoples belief system and replace it with their own twisted views.

Little more about New Tribes Mission:

http://www.survivalinternational.org/news/1416

More about sexual abuse against Native Americans committed by missionaires:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/native-american-boarding-schools/

So unfortunately, the abuse committed by missionaires against the american indigenous populations is part of an ongoing 500 years old tradition of cultural imperialism.





Edited by Carcharodon - 19 May 2014 at 12:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 May 2014 at 12:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 May 2014 at 09:03
[QUOTE=Carcharodon]More about New Tribes Mission:

http://www.iwgia.org/publications/search-pubs?publication_id=160[/QUOTE]
 
 
In Australia recently, we've had a Royal Commission of Enquiry into allegations of child abuse, mainly by organisations such as the Roman Catholic Church, which for many years ignored or covered up the abuse.
 
Regardless of whether the offender was from a religious organisation or not, people in positions of authority or trust who abuse children should be treated to the harshest penalties available, imo.
 
It's bad enough when the abuse is by people of their own ethnicity and socio/economic group, but when the offender comes from a country with better education and living standards, to help people and then abuses them it really magnifies that abuse and effects on the local communities.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 04:34
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Ofcourse there can have been some individuals missionaires who have achived something good or valuable but in general one can say that missionaires have caused more harm than good for the native American societies. As I said there are to many examples of ethnocide, cultural imperialism, religious opression and abuse to actually see the missions as something good.


If you are talking about the 20th century up today I must agree. However, your fanatic view should consider the fact that the Jesuits protected many natives from slavery and abuses by the criminal civilians that Europe imported to the Americas. And also, that without Father Las Casas, it is likely few natives would remain alive in the Americas.

Sure, I don't think you agree on that, but I don care.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 06:43
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Ofcourse there can have been some individuals missionaires who have achived something good or valuable but in general one can say that missionaires have caused more harm than good for the native American societies. As I said there are to many examples of ethnocide, cultural imperialism, religious opression and abuse to actually see the missions as something good.


If you are talking about the 20th century up today I must agree. However, your fanatic view should consider the fact that the Jesuits protected many natives from slavery and abuses by the criminal civilians that Europe imported to the Americas. And also, that without Father Las Casas, it is likely few natives would remain alive in the Americas.

Sure, I don't think you agree on that, but I don care.
Sure there have been bad people in the church, but the majority are good. No-one's arguing that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 12:38
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Ofcourse there can have been some individuals missionaires who have achived something good or valuable but in general one can say that missionaires have caused more harm than good for the native American societies. As I said there are to many examples of ethnocide, cultural imperialism, religious opression and abuse to actually see the missions as something good.


If you are talking about the 20th century up today I must agree. However, your fanatic view should consider the fact that the Jesuits protected many natives from slavery and abuses by the criminal civilians that Europe imported to the Americas. And also, that without Father Las Casas, it is likely few natives would remain alive in the Americas.

Sure, I don't think you agree on that, but I don care.


Unfortunately Jesuits also used Native Americans as cheap Labour at the missions, they introduced new dieases and they also broke down the original ethical, religious and cultural beliefs and social structure among the indigenous populations they encountered. Jesuits were a part of the colonial overtaking of the Americas and their alleged protection came to a high cost for the native peoples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 2014 at 14:57
You are a fanatic, Carcha. Too bad your country had nothing to do with colonization. It seems to me you are envious of people which had the courage to change this part of the world.

And, certainly, you have no idea about the history of Jesuits, which doesn't stop you for inventing the story as you wish. You don't change, Carcha.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2014 at 03:42
Yes, you have no idea the true nature of the Jesuits, read Fifty Years in the Church of Rome to know their true nature.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2014 at 04:38
Sure. That's protestant propaganda.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2014 at 08:17
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Sure. That's protestant propaganda.
 
But don't forget that there are more than Catholic Missionaries in needy countries around the world.
 
And it's not only members of religious groups who are guilty of abusing people in their care or whom they are supposed to be helping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2014 at 11:34
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

You are a fanatic, Carcha. Too bad your country had nothing to do with colonization. It seems to me you are envious of people which had the courage to change this part of the world.

And, certainly, you have no idea about the history of Jesuits, which doesn't stop you for inventing the story as you wish. You don't change, Carcha.




It is you who are a fanatic believer in the Jesuits own propaganda. The alleged protection the Jesuits offered came as I said with a high cost for the native communities as loss of freedom, loss of religious and cultural integrity, loss of their original economic and social structure.

Also the natives where held as cheap labour at the missions, and sometimes the Jesuits even let landowners and others hire natives from the missions to do different jobs, and it was the Jesuits that kept the profit.

And as I said, the idea of mission in itself is extremely arrogant, ethnocentric and flawed.

For a discussion about the paternalistic nature of Jesuit missions you can check up this paper where the Jesuit missions in Brazil is discussed:

http://www.ub.edu/demoment/jornadasfp2010/comunicaciones_pdf/knauss-stefan_jesuit_engagementinbrazil.pdf

One can actually compare the Jesuits with the mafia which also offers protection in exchange for domination.

Edited by Carcharodon - 22 May 2014 at 11:42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2014 at 11:52
Even in our own time Jesuits takes advantage of native Americans.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1370054/Catholic-order-Society-Jesus-Oregon-Province-bankrupt-paying-Native-Americans-166-million-sex-abuse-claims.html

Also other catholic orders, like Fransicans has opressed and abused Native americans for centuries.

Raad for example Rupert Costos "California missions, a legacy of Genocide."

http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/89summer/br-missions.htm

And as the OT shows the protestants are also involved in the still ongoing opression against the indigenous population of the Americas.

Edited by Carcharodon - 22 May 2014 at 11:58
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 2014 at 20:35
Your attitude is now clear. Where once I was willing to allow an attitude of doubt. You remain incapable of recognizing the distortion and misrepresentation of your position.

You are then without a doubt a:


big·ot noun \ˈbi-gət\

: a person who strongly and unfairly dislikes other people, ideas, etc. : a bigoted person; especially : a person who hates or refuses to accept the members of a particular group (such as a racial or religious group)



: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance


cc. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bigot



You are dismissed.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2014 at 02:31
Well, I strongly dislike religions, but protestants in particular, make me feel uneasy. Knowing protestants burned hundred times more people in theirs witch hunting campaigns that Catholics ever did with the Inquisition, makes me realize fanaticism is not a monopoly of Catholics.

I will ignore, Carcha this time. He is in the payrol of Greenpeace. Ouch




Edited by pinguin - 23 May 2014 at 02:33
A point of view from the antipodes
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 2014 at 02:53
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Well, I strongly dislike religions, but protestants in particular, make me feel uneasy. Knowing protestants burned hundred times more people in theirs witch hunting campaigns that Catholics ever did with the Inquisition, makes me realize fanaticism is not a monopoly of Catholics.

I will ignore, Carcha this time. He is in the payrol of Greenpeace. Ouch


Pinguin, where did this come from?
 
And how is it relevant to the OP?
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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