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Mustafa: The Ottoman Emperor that never was..

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Prince of Zeila View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jul 2009 at 17:56
Greetings!
 
I have been doing some reading on Suleiman I(the Magnificent) and noticed an interesting episode with regards to his heirs contending for the Ottoman throne if he were to die. The majority of his sons were with his wife Hurrem Sultan also known as Roxelena,  a very powerful and influential lady.  These were Selim II, Bayezid and Jihangir. None of these contenders were particulary popular with the Ottoman elite and the army at the time. The Golden boy and favorite was Suleiman's first son Mustafa, who was the legitimate successor.
 
Roxelena through her influence with the Sultan managed to have several important figures of the Ottoman elite(backing Mustafa) executed and replaced them with individuals sympatethic to her. With these individuals by her side she succesfully sold the lie that Mustafa during the Safavid campaign was planning a coup. This angered his father who had him excuted after the campaign. 
 
I personally can understand why Roxelena did the things she did. She was basically a mother protecting her cubs, because if Mustafa were to have been crowned emperor, her sons would have been executed(though Jihangir seems to have had a very close bond with Mustafa, as he died of grief after hearing of Mustafa's execution)
 
The purpose of this topic really is to discuss the damage this execution had on the future of the Ottoman empire as Mustafa was known as a very talented commander, even foreign diplomats visiting the court were horrified at the thought that such a gifted prince might one day succeed the Sultan. His legitimate succession would have prevented the civil war that followed his death between Selim and Bayezid which considerable weakened the state and the army was less unified. What impact did these events have on the campaigns against Russia and the naval battles in the Meditteranean?   
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extreme View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote extreme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2009 at 23:58
According to some Hurrem Sultan was whose secret plans agaist the management; on the contrary, according to some the Hurrem Sultan was that (quite) loyalty to the Selim II, evidence of this that is the letter by written Hurrem Sultan




Edited by extreme - 05 Jul 2009 at 22:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 02:17
Cry Poor Mustafa

I think the death of Mustafa has enormous affects. The Ottomans produced 10 great Sultans in a row, and this has to be a primary force in making them the empire they were. Mustafa looked set to be the 11th, instead he was killed, and his brothers were not of the calibre of their ancestors.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 05:15
Originally posted by extreme extreme wrote:

About as topic:

Life with the sultan

She quickly came to the attention of her master, and attracted the jealousy of her rivals. One day Süleyman's favorite, the concubine Mahidevran (also called "Gul Bahar", the Flower of Spring), got into a fight with Hürrem and beat her badly. Upset by this, Süleyman banished Mahidevran to the provincial capital of Manisa, together with her son, the heir apparent, Prince Mustafa. Thereafter, Hürrem became Süleyman's unrivalled favorite or haseki. Many years later, probably at the instigation of Hürrem, the Sultan ordered Mustafa to be strangled.

Hürrem's influence over the Sultan soon became legendary; she was to bear Süleyman five children and, in an astonishing break with tradition, eventually was freed and became his legal wife. This strengthened her position in the palace and eventually led to one of her sons, Selim, inheriting the empire. Hürrem also may have acted as Süleyman's adviser on matters of state, and seems to have had an influence upon foreign affairs and international politics. Two of her letters to the Polish King Sigismund II Augustus have been preserved, and during her lifetime, the Ottoman Empire generally had peaceful relations with the Polish state. Some historians also believe that she may have intervened with her husband to control Crimean Tatar slave-raiding in her native land.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roxelana




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Zeila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 14:49
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Cry Poor Mustafa

I think the death of Mustafa has enormous affects. The Ottomans produced 10 great Sultans in a row, and this has to be a primary force in making them the empire they were. Mustafa looked set to be the 11th, instead he was killed, and his brothers were not of the calibre of their ancestors.
 
Exactly, many people don't know about this talented prince whose life and career was unfortunately cut short.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 16:19
Selim II was not a bad sultan as everybody thinks, he got lots of bad publicity because of this event and had the unfortunate event of the battle of Lepantoto happen when he ruled. However he succeeded in rebuilding the navy from scratch and in record time, ended for good the power of Venice and the Italian republics, liberated Tunisia and NA for the last time ending all Spanish attemps and stopped the Persians and conquered them yet again.
 
I don't think Mustafa would have been any different. The decline of the Ottoman empire has deep roots beyond one ruler or the other namely the Janissaries and the religious establishement attached to them (at that time the religious establishment was still independent from sufi orders aligned with the Janissaries). Unless he intended to end them and rebuild the state's already aging bureaucracy I don't see much difference.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Zeila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 22:16

Al Jassas i agree, it would be unfair to blame the decline of the O.E on Selim II alone, he did face immense odds and powerful enemies. The navy might have been rebuild after Lepanto(it's a wealthy empire afterall) but what about the loss of all those experienced irreplaceable sailors and soldiers? not to mention the end of the 'undefeatable Ottomans' mythology in the Meditteranean?

   
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 23:30
The Ottoman navy remained supreme in the mediterranean well into the 18th century. The loss at lepanto was important but not decisive, it was a setback nothing more. The real decline in the Ottoman navy came late, in the 2nd half of the 17th century when the Ottomans lacking any real enemy in the Mediterranean (after the final defeat of Venice in 1648) ignored the navy altogether. New ships weren't built, foreign ships were allowed to go through the Ottoman seas resulting in the decline ottoman maritiem experience and the Ottoman became totally dependent on the pirates who were cheaper and somewhat effective (outsourced the navy).
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote extreme Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jul 2009 at 23:32
Actually, (i think) It may not be correct to compare  Prince Mustafa and Selim II. Because the one become the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire, the other Prince who died in young age.

Selim II was not a bad sultan. (Absolutely, i agree) but I understand that, subject is not related to Selim already, it is related Mustafa's skills.

In addition, I do not think there is a period of decline,(more early for disengagement) because Ottoman still effective on the world.

With regard to war, after Lepanto Battle of Lepanto (1571); A Turkish Grand Vizier famously said "In wresting Cyprus from you we deprived you of an arm; in defeating our fleet you have only shaved our beard. An arm when cut off cannot grow again; but a shorn beard will grow all the better for the razor."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Zeila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jul 2009 at 22:24
Greetings Al Jassas and Extreme, again i agree, if you were to divide the Ottoman Sultans into a list of Great Ottomans and Lesser Ottomans similar to the Mughals than Selim II would still belong to the first group. However prior to the conquest of Cyprus, the Ottoman navy was already dominant and the expedition seems to have been based on personal reasons rather than strategic interests. The enemies of the Ottomans demonstrated with Lepanto that they packed quite a devastating punch if they were a united force as the Holy League, and if they didn't fight amongst eachother we could have entered a very dangerous period for the Ottomans.
 
btw Extreme my intentions with this topic was twofold; first to discuss the damage Prince Mustafa's death had on the Ottoman State and the other is looking back at Selim II life and wether he was a worthy successor to Suleiman I, so far you and Al Jassas are making a good case for him.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orakzaiali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 20:27
actually u all three Al Jassas Prince of Zeila extreme are totally wrong .Dont compare Salim with Mustafa (a brave and strongest mertiful and very good) man because salim is just a stupid merciless bad character and drinker person first things that is Alcohol is Haram in Islam but still salim drinks Alcohols and his character is very bad and he also killed his real brother Bayazad just because for the throne just imagine how merciless he is? so how you compare it with mustafa? and i really dont want to create a account in this site i just searching about Mustafa Death and then suddenly i found this site and your all comments so i decided to create a a
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orakzaiali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 20:27
actually u all three Al Jassas Prince of Zeila extreme are totally wrong .Dont compare Salim with Mustafa (a brave and strongest mertiful and very good) man because salim is just a stupid merciless bad character and drinker person first things that is Alcohol is Haram in Islam but still salim drinks Alcohols and his character is very bad and he also killed his real brother Bayazad just because for the throne just imagine how merciless he is? so how you compare it with mustafa? and i really dont want to create a account in this site i just searching about Mustafa Death and then suddenly i found this site and your all comments so i decided to create an account in this site just be
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orakzaiali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 20:30
actually u all three Al Jassas Prince of Zeila extreme are totally wrong .Dont compare Salim with Mustafa (a brave and strongest mertiful and very good) man because salim is just a stupid merciless bad character and drinker person first thing that is Alcohol is Haram in Islam but still salim drinks Alcohols and his character is very bad and he also killed his real brother Bayazad just because for the throne just imagine how merciless he is? so how you compare it with mustafa? and i really dont want to create a account in this site i just searching about Mustafa Death and then suddenly i found this site and your all comments so i decided to create an account in this site just because to tell you all that dont compare selim with mustafa because he cant be compare with mustafa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote orakzaiali Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2016 at 20:35
    actually u all three Al Jassas Prince of Zeila extreme are totally wrong .Dont compare Salim with Mustafa (a brave and strongest mertiful and very good) man because salim is just a stupid merciless bad character and drinker person first thing that is Alcohol is Haram in Islam but still salim drinks Alcohols and his character is very bad and he also killed his real brother Bayazad just because for the throne just imagine how merciless he is? so how you compare it with mustafa? and i really dont want to create a account in this site i just searching about Mustafa Death and then suddenly i found this site and your all comments so i decided to create an account in this site just because to tell you all that dont compare selim with mustafa because he cant be compare with mustafa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rmota01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2017 at 07:00
Does anyone know if the letter Mustafa wrote to Suleiman after his execution on the Magnificent Century was actually written? Was the letter real? Or was it just written for the show? 
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