| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - My statements on caste and race as an Indian
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


My statements on caste and race as an Indian

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Mangel_Pandey View Drop Down
Knight
Knight


Joined: 01 Dec 2009
Status: Offline
Points: 52
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: My statements on caste and race as an Indian
    Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 09:08
The concept of varna(rigid class) system. Is in the context of Hindu society is unique but the idea of rigid class based hierarchies are nothing at all peculiar to India alone and all civilizations have had them and still are part of human civilization.

To blame Indians/Hindus by singling us out is highly biased.

Surely till to date anyone can observe that social classes exist and effect the organization of even the most egalitarian societies. Infact it is a main topic in political and economical literature.

Jati(caste) means identity.

A specie is a caste.

A race is a caste.

Nationality is caste.

Religions are caste.

Family names are caste.

Tribes are castes.

Any form of an ethnic identity whether self-identified or scientifically/spiritually denoted are castes.

Thats what jati means. Jati means identity. And jatis have untouchability.

Everyone has castes. There are different degrees of castes.

According to Hindu view, the only person who doesnt have a caste is a world renouncer, the man who wishes to lose all physical attachment. This is because the soul does not have caste. The sadhu that strives to attain moksha and lives a celibate life is by himself a being that is free from caste and untouchability.

All life on earth struggles to preserve its kind. Human conflict that has occured throughout history and is happening, is based upon caste(identity). One nation waging war against another to secure resources is based upon caste. One religious group declaring war against another is based upon caste.

Now to India about caste and race.

India is probably the most genetically diverse nation in the world. What binds us as a people is our love for the land our forefathers settled in.

The predominant racial element in India is West Eurasian, although it is highly mixed among certain regions/castes. The essence of the Hindu is embodied by this West Eurasian race known as Indid by physical anthropologists.

Almost all castes in India have atleast some Indid impact.

The culture, language and history of India was forged by the Indic people. Therefore the most important race in India is the "West Eurasian"/"Caucasoid/Europid" Indid race.

Indid racial types are generally very strong regionally in the North West and among the High Castes in general. But that is not to say that there are clear divisions because of the mixture.

Much of India is mixed between Indid and Weddid. Weddid is the Australoid race that is specific to India and in specific the most important subrace of Weddids are Gondids. Gondids are classified as PalaeEuropid or protomorphic unspecialized Europids.

Given the climate/landscape of India, Gondids would take the evolutionary path of Europids.

It is assumed that Gondids are phylogenetically inferior to Indids.

However I disagree that Gondids/Gondid mixed Indians are "inferior" in much ways that it has been said. As one can see that many highly intelligent and talented Indians can be Weddoid.

Generally the racial distribution of India is

more North and West = Indid VS more South and East = Weddid

and

High Castes = more Indid VS Low Castes = Weddid

That being said much of India essentially resembles itself closely than any others. Because no Indian caste is truly Indid or Weddid.

In any caste, whether from North/West or South/East or "High" or "Low" there will be individuals of varying looks. Some maybe more Indoid and some maybe more Weddoid.

There are individual dalits who are predominantly Indoid and individual Brahmins who look predominantly Weddoid, this is primarily because of admixture.

There is no clear border. That is why to the outsider Indians essentially look the same and only those who are seasoned or have a good eye can pick up the differences and appreciate the stereotypes.

Therefore as a Hindu I see no reason for caste hatred to a fellow Hindu the same way I dont see a human hating another human.

Differences exist but we are nothing but accidents by birth. All organisms are equal but not the same.

Nature is not kind. Struggle in life is because of creation. Organisms struggle to secure their existence whether it is to accumulate resources or defend itself from attackers.

All organisms are not the same. And by this fact nature is the way it is. That is why there is a diversity. Diversity cease to exist when this sameness is erased. Evolution is an unescapable reality of existence. This struggle moulds us forward.

Edited by Mangel_Pandey - 12 Mar 2010 at 09:18
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Parnell View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar
Avatar

Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Location: Barcelona
Status: Offline
Points: 3227
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2010 at 09:13
The principle difference is that Indian society formalises differences between groups of people as opposed to aspiring to end those differences. Egalatarianism may well prove to be impossible, but the principle behind it is undoubtedly noble.
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2010 at 00:51
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

The concept of varna(rigid class) system. Is in the context of Hindu society is unique but the idea of rigid class based hierarchies are nothing at all peculiar to India alone and all civilizations have had them and still are part of human civilization.

To blame Indians/Hindus by singling us out is highly biased.

Surely till to date anyone can observe that social classes exist and effect the organization of even the most egalitarian societies. Infact it is a main topic in political and economical literature.

Jati(caste) means identity.

A specie is a caste.

A race is a caste.

Nationality is caste.

Religions are caste.

Family names are caste.

Tribes are castes.

Any form of an ethnic identity whether self-identified or scientifically/spiritually denoted are castes.

Thats what jati means. Jati means identity. And jatis have untouchability.

Everyone has castes. There are different degrees of castes.

According to Hindu view, the only person who doesnt have a caste is a world renouncer, the man who wishes to lose all physical attachment. This is because the soul does not have caste. The sadhu that strives to attain moksha and lives a celibate life is by himself a being that is free from caste and untouchability.

All life on earth struggles to preserve its kind. Human conflict that has occured throughout history and is happening, is based upon caste(identity). One nation waging war against another to secure resources is based upon caste. One religious group declaring war against another is based upon caste.

Now to India about caste and race.

India is probably the most genetically diverse nation in the world. What binds us as a people is our love for the land our forefathers settled in.

The predominant racial element in India is West Eurasian, although it is highly mixed among certain regions/castes. The essence of the Hindu is embodied by this West Eurasian race known as Indid by physical anthropologists.

Almost all castes in India have atleast some Indid impact.

The culture, language and history of India was forged by the Indic people. Therefore the most important race in India is the "West Eurasian"/"Caucasoid/Europid" Indid race.

Indid racial types are generally very strong regionally in the North West and among the High Castes in general. But that is not to say that there are clear divisions because of the mixture.

Much of India is mixed between Indid and Weddid. Weddid is the Australoid race that is specific to India and in specific the most important subrace of Weddids are Gondids. Gondids are classified as PalaeEuropid or protomorphic unspecialized Europids.

Given the climate/landscape of India, Gondids would take the evolutionary path of Europids.

It is assumed that Gondids are phylogenetically inferior to Indids.

However I disagree that Gondids/Gondid mixed Indians are "inferior" in much ways that it has been said. As one can see that many highly intelligent and talented Indians can be Weddoid.

Generally the racial distribution of India is

more North and West = Indid VS more South and East = Weddid

and

High Castes = more Indid VS Low Castes = Weddid

That being said much of India essentially resembles itself closely than any others. Because no Indian caste is truly Indid or Weddid.

In any caste, whether from North/West or South/East or "High" or "Low" there will be individuals of varying looks. Some maybe more Indoid and some maybe more Weddoid.

There are individual dalits who are predominantly Indoid and individual Brahmins who look predominantly Weddoid, this is primarily because of admixture.

There is no clear border. That is why to the outsider Indians essentially look the same and only those who are seasoned or have a good eye can pick up the differences and appreciate the stereotypes.

Therefore as a Hindu I see no reason for caste hatred to a fellow Hindu the same way I dont see a human hating another human.

Differences exist but we are nothing but accidents by birth. All organisms are equal but not the same.

Nature is not kind. Struggle in life is because of creation. Organisms struggle to secure their existence whether it is to accumulate resources or defend itself from attackers.

All organisms are not the same. And by this fact nature is the way it is. That is why there is a diversity. Diversity cease to exist when this sameness is erased. Evolution is an unescapable reality of existence. This struggle moulds us forward.

When do you think the west eurasians came to India...? When did they forge the culture,history and language of India..?
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2010 at 01:01
Oxford geneticist Stephen Oppenheimer, in his pathbreaking book " Out of Eden: The peopling of the world" - (2003) - tells the reader that our ancestors used to live in Africa 150,000 years ago. A small group of homo sapiens left Africa some 80,000 years ago and settled along the South Asian coast from where they spread out to colonize different parts of the world. All non-Africans in the world today are descendants of a small group of South Asians living south of a line from Yemen to the Himalayas, especially along the Indian coast. This 'founder group,' from which all non-Africans are descended, barely survived the fallout from a volcanic eruption in Sumatra known as the 'Toba Explosion' 74,000 years ago. Climate changes have been the drivers of both evolution and migration. By relating these movements to ecological upheavals, what he gives us is the genetic history of modern humans correlated with the natural history of our planet.

Equally interesting is the message of the M17 genetic marker, which some have sought to identify with the 'Aryan' gene. It appears in India, Iran, Eurasia and Europe, but has the greatest intensity and diversity in India showing that the Indian population is the oldest. This means that proponents of the Aryan invasion (or migration) have got both the origin and the direction of movement wrong.

The study was conducted by CCMB scientists in collaboration with researchers at Harvard Medical School,Harvard School of Public Health and the Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT. It reveals that the present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).The initial settlement took place 65,000 years ago in the Andamans and in ancient south India around the same time, which led to population growth in this part,'' said Thangarajan. He added,  ``At a later stage, 40,000 years ago, the ancient north Indians emerged which in turn led to rise in numbers here. But at some point of time, the ancient north and the ancient south mixed, giving birth to a different set of population. And that is the population which exists now and there is a genetic relationship between the population within India.
Back to Top
ranjithvnambiar View Drop Down
Janissary
Janissary
Avatar

Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 28
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ranjithvnambiar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 2010 at 01:03
 For Details of Genetical studies conducted on various castes and tribes of South Asian Sub continent(India) , please follow the link
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.