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gruvawn View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 03:26
Anyone interested in learning more about nahuatl  (aztec language)?

 http://www.tlahui.com/libros/pdf/email/nahuacur.htm

It's a free pdf download of a beginners course.


There's another free ebook on nahua culture,

 http://www.tlahui.com/libros/lit/nahualli.htm

It needs the password though for the pdf. The password is Tlahui.


They have lots of other interesting ebooks to buy (cheap), like nietzsche, aristotle, and plato.
And historical documents too!

                                                All in Spanish!

don't believe everything you think. : )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 03:36
Interesting. What intrigates me the more about Nahuatl is the hieroglyph of the Mexican flag, which means Tenochtitlan. Just see it.
 
 
Tenochtitlan glyph
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by pinguin - 04 Jan 2010 at 03:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 16:26
I followed a Nahuatl course in Mexico last year. Of course I still barely speak it, but it's just cool to learn a language that's so completely different from all languages I know.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 16:53
It comes in handy for figuring out place names in Mexico and Central America, as well as the names of certain animals and plants that have entered local Spanish dialects. Zopilote (Central America) = Tzopilotl (Nahuatl) = vulture. There is a Nahuatl dictionary for Spanish speakers published by Siglo Veintiuno in Mexico for anyone interested: Remi Simeon's "Diccionario de la lengua Nahuatla o mexicana"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 18:00
Funny that the Pinguin did not mention the publication of Frances Karttunen, An Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1992)...oops, it doesn't fit into his "Neglect the Amerind" thesis!
And a little footnote on flags: The Tenochtitlan "glyph" was not added to the seal until 1934! The more clear allusion does not emerge until 1968. By the way, almost all the state banners are the old colonial coats of arms...and then there is the state of Hidalgo:
 
File:Flag of Hidalgo.svg
 
Yes, that's a "liberty bell"...we will not digress on the Guadalupe...Sleepy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 18:42
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Funny that the Pinguin did not mention the publication of Frances Karttunen, An Analytical Dictionary of Nahuatl (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1992)...oops, it doesn't fit into his "Neglect the Amerind" thesis!


Could you explain that? Your sense of humour is too much for me to grasp Confused

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:


And a little footnote on flags: The Tenochtitlan "glyph" was not added to the seal until 1934! The more clear allusion does not emerge until 1968. By the way, almost all the state banners are the old colonial coats of arms...and then there is the state of Hidalgo:
 
File:Flag of Hidalgo.svg
 
Yes, that's a "liberty bell"...we will not digress on the Guadalupe...Sleepy


Interesting. But I found more authentic the Tenochtitlan Glyph than the Liberty Bell, the French revolution hat, or the Guadaloupe Virgin... Shocked




Edited by pinguin - 04 Jan 2010 at 18:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Jan 2010 at 21:32
Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:

It comes in handy for figuring out place names in Mexico and Central America, as well as the names of certain animals and plants that have entered local Spanish dialects. Zopilote (Central America) = Tzopilotl (Nahuatl) = vulture. There is a Nahuatl dictionary for Spanish speakers published by Siglo Veintiuno in Mexico for anyone interested: Remi Simeon's "Diccionario de la lengua Nahuatla o mexicana"

And it's always fun to tell people in the supermarket that avocados derive from the Nahuatl word for testicle (ahuocatl).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2010 at 23:29
That's funny. Mexicans, though, call it Aguacate, and that's the word that means testicles. It seems Avocado has the same root from Ahuocatl. Interesting, but how come the final words look so different, I wonder.
In any case in here we use the Quechua word Palta, which was the name of the northern regions of the Inca empire from where avocadoes first appeared in that empire. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 00:54
Just mispronunciation probably. Happens all the time. Moctezuma was really called Moteuczoma (Motewksoma) for example.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 03:19
Yes, adopting spelling systems, even native ones, usually results in some distortion of pronunciation. Even Moctezuma's descendants adopted that spelling as a family name.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 03:34
Originally posted by Mixcoatl Mixcoatl wrote:

Just mispronunciation probably. Happens all the time. Moctezuma was really called Moteuczoma (Motewksoma) for example.
 
Not really, Mix, more like approximation within the context of Spanish pronunciation and consonant positioning. For example cenzontleh, lies at the bottom of sinsonte (sinzonte), the ever popular Mimus polyglottos, yes the Mockingbird! The funny part is that although stemming from the Nahua and peculiar to Mexico (sinzonte) that name is also employed in Cuban and Honduran Spanish as sinsonte. Then there is cacahuatl, the lowly peanut, which is found in two variants, cacahuete and cacahuate, both within Mexico itself. In the Caribbean this legume is called mani from Taino. The classic example is of course chocolate which in Nahuatl is actually written as xocoatl. Which brings me to the irony of using the term Nahuatl...the suffix -atl means water and Nahuatl stands for four waters...figure it out. As for aguacate, the name really applied to the tree, ahuacatl, whose heavy pendant fruit would bring the testicular analogy. But as you can see with both sinsonte, chocolate and cacahuete, the -te ending in aguacate is consistent as standard transliteration.
 
PS: Check your Nahuatl texts for our old friend "Moctezuma": they should read Motecuhzoma Xocoyotzin. Literally it means, and I am not joking: Lord of Ire, the young one! In a way, the Xocoyotzin tagged onto his name is the equivalent of a Latin cognomen! Blame it on Motecuhzoma
Ilhuicamina!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 11:09
Curious that mani (peanut) is Taino, when that plant was first cultivated in Peru.


Edited by pinguin - 06 Jan 2010 at 11:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 2010 at 14:45
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Which brings me to the irony of using the term Nahuatl...the suffix -atl means water and Nahuatl stands for four waters...figure it out.

To my knowledge it's from nahui, clear, and tlahtolli, speak/language. Would make more sense, since the Nahuas call their own language Nahuatlathtolli, not just Nahuatl.

Edited by Mixcoatl - 06 Jan 2010 at 14:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gruvawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 03:43
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Curious that mani (peanut) is Taino, when that plant was first cultivated in Peru.


it depends on what you mean by curious. i think the only reason that there aren't more "borrowed" words between tribes and cultures is that the receptor languages; either already had a word that sounded too similar and would be confused, or it's phonology didn't jive and so changes like the -atl to -ate done by monoglot spanish speakers happened. there was a lot of cross cultural trading going on at hugh distances in the pre-columbian centuries before old world disease decimated the population. even the aztec and maya had something like "free-trade" zones within cities, and being neighbors, and humans, were more likely to be at war.
don't believe everything you think. : )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gruvawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 03:46
Originally posted by lirelou lirelou wrote:

There is a Nahuatl dictionary for Spanish speakers published by Siglo Veintiuno in Mexico for anyone interested: Remi Simeon's "Diccionario de la lengua Nahuatla o mexicana"


thanks for the tip. almost everything i can find in english is a scholarly work from some university with a university price tag.
don't believe everything you think. : )
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