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Nazi ascent to power

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    Posted: 03 Nov 2013 at 00:55

Stomach turning film regarding Nazi ascent to power and the method used to indoctrinate the German Nation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp29zkbSVQk

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2013 at 05:36
^ That's a documentary on Thermopylae...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Nov 2013 at 11:30

 

Sorry, this is a correct link;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckyTPHnr9aM

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Nov 2013 at 08:41
Haw it could happen? Haw German people allowed to be fulled to the degree that 2 years after ascend to power Hitler enjoyed almost unanimous support of entire nation? I do not understand this. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lao Tse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Nov 2013 at 22:30
Originally posted by Goral Goral wrote:

Haw it could happen? Haw German people allowed to be fulled to the degree that 2 years after ascend to power Hitler enjoyed almost unanimous support of entire nation? I do not understand this. 

It's quite simple if you understand the Theory of State of Nature. 
Ok, say your country was in absolute total chaos, and basically collapsed. Don't forget, the economy is out the wind ow WITH the government. Now, imagine someone who is from a "new party" comes along and says he has a solution, and just doesn't mention its "costs". Would you follow this person and have him take control or would you just let the government remain in total chaos? Not to mention the consequences of going against them if they DO take power without your approval. 

The State of Nature Theory by Thomas Hobbes states that: People would return to acting as animals in nature if there is no strong government to watch over them. In a way, Germany post WWI is somewhat like that. The people saw the need for a change: Their central government was weak, and they realized that we need a new one. Well, enter the Nazi Regime. The Regime offered an economic reconstruction and a reclamation of what the people believed to be rightfully theirs. Unfortunately, they also said who was "to blame" in the first place. They placed this blame on the Jewish population of Europe, and stated that if they were purged and eradicated like bugs, the issue would be resolved. Thomas Hobbes also stated that "People generally do  not wish to fight or have wars", which was another support for the Nazi Regime. Hitler promised that he would "end all wars" and unify the world with the Aryans as the "Master Race", also placing them as the governing body. Well, what is the longest lasting conflict in the entire world? The Jewish people and the Islamic People. Which was smaller? The Jewish population. Which is easier to eradicate? The Jewish population. It's a shame that this is the grim truth, but it still happened.
在財富的害處,而是一件好事永遠不持續。我在和平中仅居住在新的風下。 Wei Jia Hong No harm in wealth, but a good thing doesn't last forever. I live only among peace under
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2013 at 01:13
Originally posted by Lao Tse Lao Tse wrote:

 

It's quite simple if you understand the Theory of State of Nature. 
Ok, say your country was in absolute total chaos, and basically collapsed. Don't forget, the economy is out the wind ow WITH the government. Now, imagine someone who is from a "new party" comes along and says he has a solution, and just doesn't mention its "costs". Would you follow this person and have him take control or would you just let the government remain in total chaos? Not to mention the consequences of going against them if they DO take power without your approval. 

The State of Nature Theory by Thomas Hobbes states that: People would return to acting as animals in nature if there is no strong government to watch over them. In a way, Germany post WWI is somewhat like that. The people saw the need for a change: Their central government was weak, and they realized that we need a new one. Well, enter the Nazi Regime. The Regime offered an economic reconstruction and a reclamation of what the people believed to be rightfully theirs. Unfortunately, they also said who was "to blame" in the first place. They placed this blame on the Jewish population of Europe, and stated that if they were purged and eradicated like bugs, the issue would be resolved. Thomas Hobbes also stated that "People generally do  not wish to fight or have wars", which was another support for the Nazi Regime. Hitler promised that he would "end all wars" and unify the world with the Aryans as the "Master Race", also placing them as the governing body. Well, what is the longest lasting conflict in the entire world? The Jewish people and the Islamic People. Which was smaller? The Jewish population. Which is easier to eradicate? The Jewish population. It's a shame that this is the grim truth, but it still happened.

Not really.

 The economy was in perilous state all over the world and there was plenty parties/political organizations which offered golden solutions, but they have disappeared in oblivion pretty fast.

Even Italian which were governed by “the Big Mouth Duce” did not believe, as a nation, his colorful rhetoric. 

So why in Germany



Edited by Goral - 14 Nov 2013 at 01:15
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Nov 2013 at 02:12
1) People who have been brutalized can often act in ways quite brutal themselves. Violence tends to spiral upwards in a circular fashion. What has been inflicted then becomes inflicted in return. Just take a look at what's going on in the Middle East today.
 
Germans (and the world) had just seen one of the biggest mass killings in history, one that made little sense. This was followed (in Germany) by revolution, brutal repression, a punitive peace treaty, and economic chaos.
 
2) When Germans voted for the Nazis, they didn't know that that would be the last time they would be asked for an opinion. They also didn't know the eventual policies on Jews, aggressive war, and other things that were still in the future at that time. This is not to excuse anyone- there were many in Germany who did terrible things, and should have been called to account, in more numbers than they where. But, Germans where not alone in history in these matters.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 00:12
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

1) People who have been brutalized can often act in ways quite brutal themselves. Violence tends to spiral upwards in a circular fashion. What has been inflicted then becomes inflicted in return. Just take a look at what's going on in the Middle East today.
 
Germans (and the world) had just seen one of the biggest mass killings in history, one that made little sense. This was followed (in Germany) by revolution, brutal repression, a punitive peace treaty, and economic chaos.

2) When Germans voted for the Nazis, they didn't know that that would be the last time they would be asked for an opinion. They also didn't know the eventual policies on Jews, aggressive war, and other things that were still in the future at that time. This is not to excuse anyone- there were many in Germany who did terrible things, and should have been called to account, in more numbers than they where. But, Germans where not alone in history in these matters.
It is not entirely right, German voters did know what they are voting for. Mein Kampf  and periodic Sturmer were available in every bookstore. Nazi propaganda did not hide their agenda regarding  One Fuhrer (read dictatorship), revisionism of versailles peace conference (read War) antisemitism in extreme form institutionalized and implemented by state , and racism in general glorifying master race  German . Attached are same of propaganda posters from election period 
See also poster below;

One People, One Nation, One Leader

'One People, One Nation, One Leader!' poster of Hitler, 

Nazi propaganda 


Edited by Goral - 16 Nov 2013 at 02:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2013 at 02:55
Originally posted by Goral Goral wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

1) People who have been brutalized can often act in ways quite brutal themselves. Violence tends to spiral upwards in a circular fashion. What has been inflicted then becomes inflicted in return. Just take a look at what's going on in the Middle East today.
 
Germans (and the world) had just seen one of the biggest mass killings in history, one that made little sense. This was followed (in Germany) by revolution, brutal repression, a punitive peace treaty, and economic chaos.

2) When Germans voted for the Nazis, they didn't know that that would be the last time they would be asked for an opinion. They also didn't know the eventual policies on Jews, aggressive war, and other things that were still in the future at that time. This is not to excuse anyone- there were many in Germany who did terrible things, and should have been called to account, in more numbers than they where. But, Germans where not alone in history in these matters.
It is not entirely right, German voters did know what they are voting for. Mein Kampf  and periodic Sturmer were available in every bookstore. Nazi propaganda did not hide their agenda regarding  One Fuhrer (read dictatorship), revisionism of versailles peace conference (read War) antisemitism in extreme form institutionalized and implemented by state , and racism in general glorifying master race  German . Attached are same of propaganda posters from election period 
See also poster below;

One People, One Nation, One Leader

'One People, One Nation, One Leader!' poster of Hitler, 







Yes, racism was extreme in Germany at that time, but to be honest, it wasn't great in many other places either. Jews were barred from various social and political situations in the US, Britain and France were colonial powers controlling the fates of various "lesser" races, and Jews were suffering violent episodes in the Soviet Union. Nazi ideas were represhensible, but how many Germans would have guessed, in 1933, that the end product of their vote was the murder of 6 million people? Did they know that there would be no way of removing this crazy going forward?
 
As for Versailles, even the former allies more or less agreed that some parts of the treaty were somewhat strong, and they weren't going to oppose changes. I think many historians would agree that Hilter hoped to get the changes to the Versailles treaty he wanted without war, if for no other reason than he was likely to loose it, at least in the short term. It wasn't about war, but brinkmanship. Hitler pushed his hopes as far as they would go, and as it turns out, that was too far. Without at least the neutrality of the US, and a quick victory over Britain, and then the Soviet Union, he was in a tight place. This was masked somewhat by the surprise successes in France in 1940. But the long term odds were against him, and Germany.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2013 at 01:46


[/QUOTE]Yes, racism was extreme in Germany at that time, but to be honest, it wasn't great in many other places either. Jews were barred from various social and political situations in the US, Britain and France were colonial powers controlling the fates of various "lesser" races, and Jews were suffering violent episodes in the Soviet Union. Nazi ideas were represhensible, but how many Germans would have guessed, in 1933, that the end product of their vote was the murder of 6 million people? Did they know that there would be no way of removing this crazy going forward?

As for Versailles, even the former allies more or less agreed that some parts of the treaty were somewhat strong, and they weren't going to oppose changes. I think many historians would agree that Hilter hoped to get the changes to the Versailles treaty he wanted without war, if for no other reason than he was likely to loose it, at least in the short term. It wasn't about war, but brinkmanship. Hitler pushed his hopes as far as they would go, and as it turns out, that was too far. Without at least the neutrality of the US, and a quick victory over Britain, and then the Soviet Union, he was in a tight place. This was masked somewhat by the surprise successes in France in 1940. But the long term odds were against him, and Germany.[/QUOTE]

Yes, you are right Racism or rather antisemitism was common in all European countries but nowhere it has the destructive "horsepower" of German antisemitism. This popular feling was skilfully played by Nazi propaganda in electoral campaign. So all voters in Germany knew that voting for Nazi is voting for prosecution of Jews.

Germany was made responsible for WWI. It is not quite just. Responsibility for WWI lay in much wider spectrum of contemporary politics.
But Germany was the only one country which could stop the eruption of WWI. They did not use this ability, au contrary they encouraged Austria-Hungarian Empire to proceed with their Balkan adventure.
Versailles conference imposed huge war reparation on Germany, but if we look at this reparation in historical terms, it was not much worse that reparation imposed by Germany on France after 1980-81 War.

"After the Franco-Prussian War, according to conditions of Treaty of Frankfurt(May 10, 1871), France was obliged to pay a war indemnity of 5 billion gold francs in 5 years. German troops remained in parts of France until the last installment of the indemnity was paid in September 1873, before the obliged date"

After WWI,German reparation was as below;

 "In January 1921, the total sum due was decided by an Inter-Allied Reparations Commission and was set at 132 billion gold marks. However, the actual amount of reparations that Germany was obliged to pay out was not the 132 billion marks cited in 1921 but rather the 50 billion marks stipulated in the (schedules A 12 billion marks, B 38 billion) The historian Sally Marks stated the 112 billion marks in "C bonds" were entirely chimerical—a device to fool the public into thinking Germany would pay much more. The actual total payout from 1920 to 1931 (when payments were suspended indefinitely) was 20 billion German gold marks, worth about 5 billion US dollars or one billion British pounds."

Could yoy explain why we consider German reparation as a harsh and nobody mention French reparation from 1871?

Additional question regarding Versailles Treaty;What other part of this treaty was considered to harsh for Germany?



Edited by Goral - 18 Nov 2013 at 01:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ofnoblekind Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2013 at 02:58
This article is probably relevant to this post:

http://ofnoblekind.com/aryan-race/

?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2013 at 04:41
yes, IMO it was racism which was the major drive for introduction of Nazism. Economical influence was less important.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote beorna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2014 at 00:39
Originally posted by Goral Goral wrote:

yes, IMO it was racism which was the major drive for introduction of Nazism. Economical influence was less important.

Allthough it may be surprising for some, Anti-Semitism in Germany was not stronger than in other countries. One just had to look on the results of anti-semitic parties, to see, how unimportant it was. One just had to look on the election results of the NSDAP to see, that they were marginal till the economic crisis and a political crisis of the Weimar Republic. Hitler and Goebels even ordered in the early 30th to reduce anti-semitic campaigns in the election campaigns, because they feared to scare away voters.
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