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Need some historical help for my game!

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    Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 00:21
Hi folks! At long last I return Wink

I wrote a dark/middle ages themed game, it's an online strategy game. It involves several different civilizations players can pick from. It has been around for a while, and it was alot of fun, but besides the obvious bugfixing and all that nasty crap I wanted to add some more content. I've been asking your input before, and it was really helpful back then Big smile
See, at some point in the game, players pretty much have everything, so I wanted to add a specialization system to the current content. The new system allows players to specialize in 3 different areas: Religion, Commerce and Military. Players are awarded points in these areas (plus other bonusses) by deciding on political issues. For example, if a player chooses to adopt Slavery, the basic workers don't require salary and people can be bought and sold for gold, if the player rejects it, s/he will gain points in Religion and the player will be less likely to lose control over the city. Stuff like that.

Now, I have 2 questions for you guys:

1. Can you think of any more yes-no issues like these? Like Slavery, Feudalism, etc. What (dis)advantages would adopting/rejecting them give you? In terms of bonusses, points in the 3 areas, or both. The game mechanics are really elaborate so just let your imagination run wild. I'm sure I can rephrase it into something that fits in the system :)

2. I'm thinking about disabling one of the 3 specializations for each civilization. Which to pick? The civilizations are Byzantine, Celtic, Easterlings (ie. Huns/Mongols/etc), Gaulic, Germanic, Islamic, Nordic, Roman, Slavic. For example, maybe Easterlings should have Military+Commerce, and Slavic Religion+Commerce.

Thanks for your input :D
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Jallaludin Akbar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jallaludin Akbar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 03:08
This reminds me a lot of Sid Meier's Civilization. What is your game called, is it possible to play it? I'd love to try it out to see how it works. 

Edited by Jallaludin Akbar - 01 Jul 2009 at 03:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 04:06
Indeed. Tell me the address, I'll see what it is (without the timeframe of building up, hopefully). I wouldn't intend on being there for long anyways.
 
Hope you understand though that things such as Slavery and Feudalism both have their ups and downs and you should incorporate both. Can you please add though, what are the different bonuses they could give (what types or such)?
 
Specs: Religion, Commerce and Military
Civs: Byzantine, Celtic, Easterlings, Gaulic, Germanic, Islamic, Nordic, Roman, Slavic
 
Byz: Religion, Military
Celtic: Religion, Military
Easter: Military,
Gaul: Commerce,
German: Religion,
Islamic: Commerce, Religion
Nordic: Commerce, Military
Roman: Commerce, Military
Slavic: Religion,
 
 
Couldn't really add another to those without making them overly similar in my mind's eye. However, what about enabling some civilizations with only one specialization but then going far deeper into it than the ones with two? And by far deeper, there would still be a big difference between what's in it for a civ with the spec and what's in it for some civ which doesn't have the spec.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 08:42
Currently the game is not online, it hasn't be on for over a year, but I'll relaunch it when everything works and the new features are finished Big smile My friend tells me it's a bit like Civilization, yes, I've never really played that but he has and he's the one who came up with most of the ideas besides me, so maybe that's why Tongue But I think it's most of all similar to web games (although this isn't a website based thing). It's not turn based, but it's really slow Wink
I'll upload some screenshots soon to give you an idea. Once my ISP allows me to.

Yes, the idea was to attach rules+points to both an "aye" or a "nay" to the issues. As for the bonuses/rules, I wrote the entire game from scratch, so the sky is the limit. Most real life notions can be translated into some mechanic that's already in the game, and if not, I could always add something new if it's worth it. This part of the game only unlocks to very advanced players so there's no real threat of things getting too complicated for players to understand.
Of course, ideas for issues that only involve points (like, "aye" = +10 military, "nay" = +10 commerce) are also very welcome. Things don't need to be complicated :)

About the specs, you're right to list it like that, thanks rider! I was thinking about a different system, allowing all 3 but give each civ a cheap one to develop, an average one and an expensive one. For example, Slavic could have Religion cheap, Commerce average and Military expensive. (So slavic - RCM. we could make a list like that). That should give the list some more variation. Of course, it's also possible to distribute it in percentages that are different per civ, so that spec 1 costs, say, 25 percent of the stuff, spec 2 will cost 30 and spec 3 will cost 45. That way a civ can have a single cheapest one, or two cheapest ones, etc. Having it all add up to 100 ensures the distribution is equal for each civ.


Edited by Teup - 01 Jul 2009 at 08:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 09:05
Yay! My ftp is back in business. Here are some screenshots.

One
Two
Three
Four
Five
Six
Seven


It's not as complicated as it looks, these screenshots are the result of 2 months of intensive playing Tongue


Edited by Teup - 01 Jul 2009 at 09:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cryptic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 12:29
Maybe you could allow players to "invest" points in such concepts as guild / trade systems, transportation infrastructure, Universities, etc.
 
The investments can earn more points in the long term (if they are around to collect the profit), as the academic society maybe at a severe short term disadvantage to a heavily military oriented society that simply is not interested in either Aquinas or Confucious.
 
Also.....
A feudalistic based society could be more resistant to plagues than a free labor society (less internal movement to spread the disease, more internal controls etc.
 
  


Edited by Cryptic - 01 Jul 2009 at 12:49
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 19:00
Sorry, but I started laughing at the 'People are starving' in the first screenshot.
 
Okay, one question now. How can you develop Keys to level 21? At level 21, the 'Develop Keys' is working on 105% meaning that the city is (or should be) burglaring things itself by 5% all the time. Smile
 
Quote About the specs, you're right to list it like that, thanks rider! I was thinking about a different system, allowing all 3 but give each civ a cheap one to develop, an average one and an expensive one.
 
Byz: Religion, Military, Commerce
Celtic: Religion, Military, Commerce
Easter: Military, Commerce, Religion
Gaul: Commerce, Religion, Military
German: Religion, Military, Commerce
Islamic: Commerce, Religion, Military
Nordic: Commerce, Military, Religion
Roman: Commerce, Military, Religion
Slavic: Religion, Commerce, Military
 
That's my take on things. Now, if we add percentages, I'd make it something like:
 
Byz: Religion 25%, Military 30%, Commerce 45%
Celtic: Religion 25%, Military 35%, Commerce 40%
Easter: Military 20%, Commerce 35%, Religion 45%
Gaul: Commerce 25%, Religion 35%, Military 40%
German: Religion 30%, Military 35%, Commerce 35% 
Islamic: Commerce 20%, Religion 25%, Military 55%
Nordic: Commerce 25%, Military 35%, Religion 40%
Roman: Commerce 20%, Military 25%, Religion 55%
Slavic: Religion 30%, Commerce 35%, Military 35%
 
Pretty random but the best I could think of given a wanted sum of 100%...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 20:51
Originally posted by Cryptic Cryptic wrote:

Maybe you could allow players to "invest" points in such concepts as guild / trade systems, transportation infrastructure, Universities, etc.
 
The investments can earn more points in the long term (if they are around to collect the profit), as the academic society maybe at a severe short term disadvantage to a heavily military oriented society that simply is not interested in either Aquinas or Confucious.


Hmm yes, maybe I could add a University or something like that to the building tree at some point, that enables such investments. The bigger the investment or the more scholars, the larger the relative profit. That would add something new, but it'll have to wait until after the current to-do list is cleared Smile

Quote
Also.....
A feudalistic based society could be more resistant to plagues than a free labor society (less internal movement to spread the disease, more internal controls etc.
 


That's excellent, plagues are already in it so that's easy to add. Besides that it could improve the strength of farms/farmers and maybe award some points in Military. What could be the advantage of NOT having feudalism, though?


Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

Sorry, but I started laughing at the 'People are starving' in the first screenshot.


That was my account, I sent an army to capture a city but they didn't quite pull it off and they ran out of food on the way back home DeadTongue



 
Quote
Okay, one question now. How can you develop Keys to level 21? At level 21, the 'Develop Keys' is working on 105% meaning that the city is (or should be) burglaring things itself by 5% all the time. Smile


Hehe, good question, you really paid attentionBig smile The percentage doesn't add up like that - it's 5% off the previous level, so it never reaches zero Wink
 
Quote
That's my take on things.


Excellent list, thanks! One thing though, Germanic and Nordic have alot of overlap in my mind - would you really spec them that differently?

Alternative lists by anyone else are welcomeBig smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2009 at 05:11
Nordic is Germanic on the sea. Germanic in history did trade a lot with Romans and their own tribes, but in the eyes of a Roman, the Germanic would be a person praying to a tree with a spear in his hand. While to the Roman, a Norseman would have been a guy with a spear in his hand on a ship sailing somewhere... likely...
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2009 at 08:26
Ok I decided to add a fourth spec: Science Big smile Now the list feels more complete.

As for the things spec points can be spent on (cultural facilities), here's some pictures of what I have so far:


Military + Commerce

Religion + Science



Edited by Teup - 02 Jul 2009 at 08:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jul 2009 at 05:47
Monuments would differ on who they were built for - god of trade, high priest, lord king, poor peasant john..
 
Bastion is unlikely to help build men quicker.
 
Scientific -- I'd suggest building a tower for the insane astronomist king to look at the stars... and a scoutscorp? no idea with the other one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2009 at 08:26
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

 
Bastion is unlikely to help build men quicker.


Yeah, I just wanted this building to improve both offense and defense so that's why I picked this. Can adjust that or rename it though (icon hasn't been made yet :P)

Quote
Scientific -- I'd suggest building a tower for the insane astronomist king to look at the stars... and a scoutscorp? no idea with the other one.


That's nice, I've picked Great Library for the big one and Armillary Sphere for the small one - seemed like relevant science related structures to me that tolerate a wide range of ages & civilizations. Still not sure what the sphere would do, though Ermm


Edited by Teup - 11 Jul 2009 at 08:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2009 at 10:40
I'd still go with my poor insane king, but mostly because I suggested it. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2009 at 09:20
Current status :)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2009 at 20:24
What's the bonuses for each and every one? The same as you mentioned above?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2009 at 01:25
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

What's the bonuses for each and every one? The same as you mentioned above?


Yeah, pretty much -

Monument - Monuments make Guards and Warriors increase the City's Contentment. They also increase the chance for Guards to kill enemy Missionaries. Should any of your forces capture a town using Siege Engines, this City will gain 5% Contentment for every Monument it has.

Siege Guild - Cultural Training Facility. Lets you create Siege Engines from the Barracks. Siege Engines are slow but powerful units that are good against towns. You may only have one Cultural Training Facility in a City.

Bastion - The Bastion increases the combat value of this City by 10% and makes Guards, Horsemen and Warriors 20% cheaper and trained 50% faster.

Tavern - Taverns provide an income of Gold. For all people in this City's territory you will receive Gold. You especially benefit from foreign Groups in your territory. Each Tavern also reduces the cost of the Forum by 1 Culture Point.

Harbor - Cultural Training Facility. Lets you create Trade Cogs from the Market. Trade Cogs provide an income of Gold. The City may have at least 6 Trade Cogs or 1 for every 2 Tiles of water in your territory. You may only have one Cultural Training Facility in a City.

Forum - The Forum grants you 250 of a random Resource (25 in the case of Artefacts) for each export transaction at this City's Market: Both transport of Resources and selling Resources at the international market.

Shrine - Shrines increase the effect range of Missionaries, decrease foreign ethnic minorities very slightly and make Elders and Craftsmen 10% cheaper and trained 10% faster.

Convent - Cultural Training Facility. Lets you create Missionaries from your Monastery. Missionaries convert the population of foreign towns in the area to your etnicity, making these towns more likely to convert to your nation. You may only have one Cultural Training Facility in a City.

Wonder - Turns this City into a Holy City. Holy Cities are immune to foreign Missionaries and can never be captured.

Armilla - Armillas decrease Food cost of all upgrades by 10% of the original amount. Scholars are trained 20% faster (train in 13 Months by default), Engineers are trained 10% faster (train in 5 Months by default).

University - Cultural Training Facility. The University allows you to train Scholars. Scholars convert invested resources into more efficient materials over time. You may only have one Cultural Training Facility in a City.

Great Library - The Great Library reveals the entire map, and introduces a system of education that allows Educated Units to pass on their skills when they die, so that you only need to train new people in 20% of the cases. Also, the rate at which this City exchanges technology levels with towns it borders is doubled.
---

Nearly all of them are operational now, but they can still be adjusted, in particular the Bastion can be something else or have different effects, as well as the Trade Cogs. And I still need government issues that will grant the players points in military, commerce, religion or science..




Edited by Teup - 22 Jul 2009 at 01:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Teup Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2009 at 07:54
Alright, the game's gonna launch officially tomorrow!

You can download the game and sign up whenever the server is online (I try to keep my computer online as much as possible, especially the evenings). You can already register, but the game time is frozen until tomorrow, July 30, 16:00 GMT
That's the moment of the official launch :)

Waldan II

As it stands the server can only support up to 15 players, but I trust having to download the problem will be enough of a threshold to filter out the people who really are interested :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2009 at 19:19
I'll see if I have the time.
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