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Origins of Europeans

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    Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 01:03
In a very dumb discussion elsewhere in the forum, about ancient Egyptian origins, appeared a link to a mysterious dark skinned people that were the first to develop the mutation of blue eyes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/18/study-reveals-the-mysterious-ancestors-of-modern-europeans/

Recently, we know all Eurasians (Caucasians, East Asians, Central Asians, American Indians) are a mixture of Modern and Neanderthals, of which the last group represents circa 10% of the modern genetics.

http://www.genetics.org/content/196/4/1241.abstract

With that evidence, let's discuss about the genetic origins of the European man in particular, and Caucasians in general.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 01:11
This is quite interesting. Neanderthals were probably red-heads.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7062415.stm


http://www.dailytech.com/NeanderthalHuman+Breeding+Was+Hard+But+Yielded+Benefits/article34236.htm


Edited by pinguin - 19 Oct 2014 at 01:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 01:14
So, the so called "whiteness" is probably inherited from Neanderthals.  Pictures...




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 01:42
You called a discussion dumb where you contributed to most of the discussion with drivel.  Is this self praise or self pity?

I'll take you up on this discussion.  For starters you are talking about regional continuity which has its merits.  However recent papers documents partial replacement theory.  Your beloved neanderthals in this case were replaced by dark skinned blue eyed African hunter gatherers who were in turn replaced by light skin brown eyed Middle Eastern IE speakers and farmers.  A third component of Europeans comes from Siberia, as much as 20 percent.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 02:00
My beloved Neanderthals? Actually, Neanderthals could be the reason Eurasians (Caucasians, Asians, Native Americans) have the brain larger than Negroids. The Neanderthals may have given modern man (Eurasians) a larger brain.

The article is here: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0010648
I quote this:

"The gene microcephalin or MCPH1 is a critical regulator of brain size".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 03:15
Excuse me but you are changing the subject just after one post.  Now you are talking about other peoples.  I'm talking about people who ended up in Europe.  Neanderthal only contributes 4 percent.  It is dubious how the facial features of Europeans are contributed by Neanderthal or their brain size.  The way the general consensus sounds it appears the brains of Neanderthals were the largest being upwards of 2100 cc and therefore limited their intelligence as most of it grew in a way to accommodate visual cortex and controlling large muscle blocks on the face and body.

I would say paleo Europeans account for some of the admixture, then Middle Easterners and Siberians.  The European is a very mysterious mix.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 03:38
Neanderthals had larger brains than all modern races of men. Today, people with larger brains (East Asians) are curiously the ones that have on average the highest IQ. I found curious your argument than a larger brain in Neanderthals make them less smart than people  with smaller brains. How do you know?

Actually, Cro-Magnon is the classical name for paleo Europeans. I wonder how they looked.
In any case, European facial features are shared by Caucasians outside Europe, and even by some Mongoloid groups.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 03:56
Obviously, the simple answer is that they were originally black.

It seems that, over the millennia, some developed fairer skin and hair, and, when they mixed with dark skinned people, we ended up with the colouration now found in the Middle East, North Africa and so on.

History of Homo Sapiens is far from complete, with new discoveries almost weekly. Neanderthal, Denisovan and AMH have all lived on earth together at some stage in history, so we will have to await the results of further research to properly answer the question.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 04:33
Do you really think so? Bushmen, that seems to be than Negroids are actually lighter than them.
Besides, chimpance aren't dark skinned either. So very dark skinned people seem to be a relatively recent adaptation to UV exposition.




Edited by pinguin - 19 Oct 2014 at 04:38
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 04:38
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Do you really think so? Bushmen, that seems to be than Negroids are actually lighter than them.
Besides, chimpance aren't dark skinned either. So very dark skinned people seem to be a relatively recent adaptation to UV exposition.




Mate, this is not relevant to the OP.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 05:53
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Neanderthals had larger brains than all modern races of men. Today, people with larger brains (East Asians) are curiously the ones that have on average the highest IQ. I found curious your argument than a larger brain in Neanderthals make them less smart than people  with smaller brains. How do you know?

Actually, Cro-Magnon is the classical name for paleo Europeans. I wonder how they looked.
In any case, European facial features are shared by Caucasians outside Europe, and even by some Mongoloid groups.




Because it is a Neanderthal douche.  Quit reading everything I write in some weird way.  I never meant to say out of African's with larger heads with different brain organization were as limited in intelligence.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 13:39
I said exactly the opposite. I sugested Neanderthals were not retarded people. In fact, it is amazing the first civilazions of man developed exactly were population was hybrid between modern and Neandertal: Sumeria, India, China, Americas, etc. I don't think that's just coincidence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 23:17
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:


Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Neanderthals had larger brains than all modern races of men. Today, people with larger brains (East Asians) are curiously the ones that have on average the highest IQ. I found curious your argument than a larger brain in Neanderthals make them less smart than people  with smaller brains. How do you know?

Actually, Cro-Magnon is the classical name for paleo Europeans. I wonder how they looked.
In any case, European facial features are shared by Caucasians outside Europe, and even by some Mongoloid groups.




Because it is a Neanderthal douche.  Quit reading everything I write in some weird way.  I never meant to say out of African's with larger heads with different brain organization were as limited in intelligence.


Stop calling people "douche" and "Douche Bags"-it's in breach of the CoC.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 00:58
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I said exactly the opposite. I sugested Neanderthals were not retarded people. In fact, it is amazing the first civilazions of man developed exactly were population was hybrid between modern and Neandertal: Sumeria, India, China, Americas, etc. I don't think that's just coincidence.


Neanderthal makes up 4 percent of contribution.  Denisovan 6 or 7 in parts of Oceania.  They both had bigger heads than modern humans. Get over it.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 04:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:


Because it is a Neanderthal douche.  Quit reading everything I write in some weird way.  I never meant to say out of African's with larger heads with different brain organization were as limited in intelligence.


Stop calling people "douche" and "Douche Bags"-it's in breach of the CoC.

Thanks Toyomotor. As you know, my mother language is not english. I  didn't know this black man was insulting me. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 05:00
I'm not black though and I wasn't insulting you as I called Neanderthal a douche.  I don't think there was any breach given that Neanderthal wasn't even modern human.


Edited by literaryClarity - 20 Oct 2014 at 05:03
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 06:29
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:



I'm not black though and I wasn't insulting you as I called Neanderthal a douche.  I don't think there was any breach given that Neanderthal wasn't even modern human.




When posting to Pinguin on another thread you called him a "douche bag" and you've used the word "douche" to him again.

I reject your claim to be referring to Neanderthals as "douche".
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alpha NOVA Omega Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 07:49
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

You called a discussion dumb where you contributed to most of the discussion with drivel.  Is this self praise or self pity?

I'll take you up on this discussion.  For starters you are talking about regional continuity which has its merits.  However recent papers documents partial replacement theory.  Your beloved neanderthals in this case were replaced by dark skinned blue eyed African hunter gatherers who were in turn replaced by light skin brown eyed Middle Eastern IE speakers and farmers.  A third component of Europeans comes from Siberia, as much as 20 percent.

Its always a pleasure to learn a lot from you LC. :) When you say third component from Siberia, were those people Mongolics?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 11:40
Not in the sense of the language but of the same phenotypes yes.  It would be more directed towards the Native American phenotype.


http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2014 at 02:33
I this now accepted there is a relationship between Native Americans, Central Asians and Europeans. Perhaps that's the reason why is so difficult to find Native American origins by genetic tests alone, among the U.S. population.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Oct 2014 at 06:38
You guys don't wander off topic, you're in a headlong race.

All of these recent posts have nothing at all to do with the origins of European people, unless of course they came from the USA.

I suggest that, ultimately, Europeans originated in Africa.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2014 at 02:30
More information about the origin of Eurasians, of which Europeans are a subset. This is a new research that establish the mixing of Sapiens and Neanderthals happened in Eurasia near 50.000 to 60.000 years ago. Around the same times man was settling Australia for the first time.

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