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Perception of Indians

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Mangel_Pandey View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 21:18
On the internet, having read about posts about Indians on various forums really enfuriates me.

There are 2 stereotypes.

1) All Indians are short, scrawny, black and not-so-sharp-featured

2) All Indians are stupid and live in squatters

India is genetically/physically the most diverse nation on the planet with numerous lanuages and religions.

Whenever someone compares to/suggest that an Indian resembles a Middle Easterner or a Southern European, the result that would ensue would be reaction by posting of pictures of the most darkest and australoid Indians(of the sort that are found only among the tribes of South - East India) and foul language calling Indians all sorts of vile names.

Whats more annoying is the adamance in believing the existence of brunette, olive and blue/green/grey eyed Indians with European-like features. And when Indians(of the aforementioned sort and often celebrities) are posted as prove. The usual rhetoric is that they are likely the by-product of some British soldiers or Afghan/Iranian invaders. Holy crap! Have these people even seen what grows on their own backyard? Many Iranians/Afghans can be swarthy and hooked nosed in an unharmonious/atrocious manner.

Now I am not someone who discriminates based on race or favors any one sort of Indian over the other. But who are these people to instruct us on our own?

When I was in an anthropology forum(now defunct) called anthroforum. A thread was created asking for classifications for about a couple dozen of Bollywood actresses. The responses were that Indians suffer from an identity crisis, the actresses bleach themselves and have plastic surgery and what not.

To me these sort of reactions, that is their fervent denial of how Indians cannot look as such, makes me ponder that the reason why they are forcefully asserting as such is because these sort of Indians are somehow "too good to be true" and "better looking".

Another prime example is this thread created in the older forum. http://www.allempires.net/aryan-indians_topic13035_page1.html

It just pisses me off to the core how ignorant (both Indians and non-Indians) can be.

Yeah... I know this sounds more like "bitch fit" ... but I wanna know what people think.

Edited by Mangel_Pandey - 10 Dec 2009 at 22:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 21:25
Don't worry fellow. Latinos stand the same kind of stereotyping. Some people just can't understand some regions are very diverse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mixcoatl Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 22:14
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Don't worry fellow. Latinos stand the same kind of stereotyping. Some people just can't understand some regions are very diverse.

*cough*Africa*cough*
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 22:17

Well, I know the Maghreb is different.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joze Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 22:28
Hy!
Oh, that's very   bad this  kind  of  stereotypes  about  Indians. I  like   India-culure! :))  Is   very  interesting and  beautiful! :) I  think  India  is  very big  and various  country. I  like  Indian  traditional  art  and  music!
 
Regards,  Joze


Edited by Joze - 10 Dec 2009 at 22:29
Best regards!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 23:00
I can see that English isn't your first language but thank you for such kind words Joze.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Dec 2009 at 23:23
Africa is a continent on its own and not a single country, it the cradle of humanity(where it all started) and 30 million sq km.

India is just a nation and 3 million sq km, 10 times smaller than Africa.

Yet India which only received newer waves of people unlike Africa which spawned human specie and where the oldest dna mutation sequences are. Taking all things into consideration India is far more diverse than Africa.

Africa is inhabited by Negroids, Capoids and Europoids. India is inhabited by Negritids, Australoids/Weddids, Mongoloids and Europoids.

African ydna: A, B, T, E, J

Indian ydna: C, F, H, O, L, R, J
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 00:08
Moved to Ethnicity & Genetics
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 01:16
Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:

Moved to Ethnicity & Genetics


I think this thread is more appropriate in The Tavern as it is not meant to be serious.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cahaya Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 02:38
Originally posted by Joze Joze wrote:

Hy!
Oh, that's very   bad this  kind  of  stereotypes  about  Indians. I  like   India-culure! :))  Is   very  interesting and  beautiful! :) I  think  India  is  very big  and various  country. I  like  Indian  traditional  art  and  music!
 
Regards,  Joze


to be specific.... Bipasha ? Malikka...?? Ermm... Kareena... bla bla bla...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 02:47
I love curry and my girlfriend's Pakistani.  I'm onto a winner.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:13
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

I love curry and my girlfriend's Pakistani.  I'm onto a winner.

I like Indian food but they always cook with too much salt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:16
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

I love curry and my girlfriend's Pakistani.  I'm onto a winner.


This thread is about Indians and not Pakis.
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Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

I like Indian food but they always cook with too much salt.


Theres no such a thing as "Indian food" as there is no such a thing as "Indian language" or "Indian race".

The only "Indian" thing about all "Indians" is that we come from India.

The only "Indian" thing about the different foods of the different regions of India is the use of spice and curry. But so is spice cooked all over South Asia(including Iran, Afghanistan) and South East Asia.

Try going to an authentic Tamil cuisine restaurant and an authentic Muslim Kashmiri cuisine restaurant, you'll see what I'm talking about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:25
That's pretty offensive this neck of the woods calling someone a 'Paki', but regardless, I will assume you are abbreviating and not meaning it in a derogatory way. Anyway, she's Punjabi.  There are Punjabis in India too.

Quote I like Indian food but they always cook with too much salt.


It depends who the chef is.  I have a lot of say in the spice balance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:29
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

I like Indian food but they always cook with too much salt.


Theres no such a thing as "Indian food" as there is no such a thing as "Indian language" or "Indian race".

The only "Indian" thing about all "Indians" is that we come from India.

The only "Indian" thing about the different foods of the different regions of India is the use of spice and curry. But so is spice cooked all over South Asia(including Iran, Afghanistan) and South East Asia.

Try going to an authentic Tamil cuisine restaurant and an authentic Muslim Kashmiri cuisine restaurant, you'll see what I'm talking about.


I think he meant food from India in general as opposed to any particular cuisine.  I like Tamil too, but that has too much spice (it comes through the pores).

Anyway, I don't think you should be too defensive or try to correct people so aggressively on what is Indian or what Indians are or aren't. Anyone who's educated knows it's a diverse country and frankly if people pigeon hole it into one of its facets and ignore everything else then personally I don't think they are worth yours or anyone elses effort.  By that I mean anyone who has any concept of art, culture or history would not be ignorant of India's diversity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:30
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

I love curry and my girlfriend's Pakistani.  I'm onto a winner.


This thread is about Indians and not Pakis.

And the not so serious thread turned into slight racism already?

Vivek are you back to us?

Just a note, I'll be watching the topic in the background. 
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Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

to be specific.... Bipasha ? Malikka...?? Ermm... Kareena... bla bla bla...


You know I don't know why but I don't really like S.E.Asians very much especially those from Malaysia, Vietnam/Laos and Philipines. Now I am not trying to be prejudiced or anything. But its just based on my experience, they tend to be the most ignorant.

And you have proven my generalization by equating some cheap sluts to something as refined and highy respected as Indian traditional music.

Now I don't quite blame you because coming from where you are and your family upbringing, such mindset might be the norm. But that's not how certain Indians feel, especially since our traditional music has religious significance as well.

You should learn to stfu when you have nothing better to say. Trust me, you'll be appreciated better that way.

Pardon me for me if I'm being harsh.

I come from a certain section of Hindu society who are very particular about our culture.

I don't know what kind of Indians you have met. Maybe you are some Malay from Singapore who is used to seeing bastardization of Aryan culture by tamil coolies.

This may be new to you, just to let you know;

Indians from a certain section of the Hindu society, don't take sh*t from anyone. And if you hurt us in any way, be sure that we'll take our revenge and serve you double the dose.

Peace.

Edited by Mangel_Pandey - 11 Dec 2009 at 04:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:42
Mangel_Pandey, let me welcome you to the forum with a bit of advice: you should probably refrain from posting if you can't refrain from insulting people. Your time with us will be very brief if you continue in this manner.
 
-Akolouthos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:50
Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

Mangel_Pandey, let me welcome you to the forum with a bit of advice: you should probably refrain from posting if you can't refrain from insulting people. Your time with us will be very brief if you continue in this manner.


 

-Akolouthos


Hello thank you for the welcome. My intention is not to insult anyone. Maybe I did come out abit more harsh, if that's the case then its my bad.

But the same message should go to the person who offended me, first. If you had told them off, I don't need to.

_____

I know people in general think Indians are push-overs who should take insults and sit in one corner sucking their thumb.

Traditional Indian music is an art form of my ancestors and I won't have anyone insult that. If they do, they can be sure I'm not going to be very nice to them.

Edited by Mangel_Pandey - 11 Dec 2009 at 04:53
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 04:59
Please review the Code of Conduct for a better understanding of what does and does not constitute a violation of forum policy. Your second to last post constitutes a gross violation of several of our regulations. Consider this an informal warning.
 
-Akolouthos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:05
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:


And the not so serious thread turned into slight racism already?


Racism? how? serious? how so?

All I said was this thread is about Indians and not Pakis. How else am I supposed to phrase that sentence?

Isn't it a fact? What I said.

Judging by the tag under Zagros' username, I think he may an Iranian. Iranians are the people outside Indian subcontinent, Indians are genetically, culturally, linguistically closest to.

Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Vivek are you back to us?


I do not know who Vivek is you are referring to. So obviously no.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:18
Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

Please review the Code of Conduct for a better understanding of what does and does not constitute a violation of forum policy. Your second to last post constitutes a gross violation of several of our regulations. Consider this an informal warning.
 

-Akolouthos


Alright, I heed your warning.

That individual's post may have not been explicit but it is indeed offensive. My post simply being a reaction.

I did not use any vulgarity or crude remarks. So you may find that I have violated rule 7 and/or 8. But that individual did violate 3 and 6 that is insinuating a response by posting something that is incongruent and distasteful as it belittles someone else's culture.

I don't want to discuss this any further. But I honestly don't see how that person's post fits with any of what is being discussed everyone else's post did and in good spirit.

Edited by Mangel_Pandey - 11 Dec 2009 at 05:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:21
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

I like Indian food but they always cook with too much salt.


Theres no such a thing as "Indian food" as there is no such a thing as "Indian language" or "Indian race".

The only "Indian" thing about all "Indians" is that we come from India.
You mean just like all Europeans come from Europe, all Germans from Germany, all Italians from Italy, all Fijians from Fiji, all Americans from America? 
 
You're assuming a whole number of things (as is anyone who thinks all the propositions I just made are well-defined, let alone true), paramount among them the need for there to be a continuing well-defined meaning for the geographical entity (as 'Iberia' and 'Britain' have but 'Spain' and 'England' don't).
 
Confusing ethnic and racial  classifications with geographical ones doesn't get you very far either. You can come from Brixton and be African, and a long time ago I had a teenage girlfriend who came from Southampton but was Goanese (and therefore 'Indian').
Quote
The only "Indian" thing about the different foods of the different regions of India is the use of spice and curry. But so is spice cooked all over South Asia(including Iran, Afghanistan) and South East Asia.
Actually that's not true, especially of the way rice is normally prepared. Look for instance at the difference between an Iranian polo and an Indian biryani.
 
More generally though, of course spices are used all over Asia. They're used all over everywhere. What matters is the way the spices are used.
 
If you want something that adds up to being typically Indian you'd be better off discussing the use of cheese since Indian cooking, like Chinese, makes no use of coagulated-protein cheeses, but, unlike Chinese, uses fromages frais in the form of paneer.
Quote
Try going to an authentic Tamil cuisine restaurant and an authentic Muslim Kashmiri cuisine restaurant, you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
Of course they'd probably be different. Go to a local restaurant in Toulouse and another in Metz and they'll be immediately distinguishable. But they'd both be well within the gambit of what one recognises as French cuisine. In fact try asking for a boilermaker in Plymouth and another in Newcastle (assuming they haven't been blanded out of existence) and you'll get a different drink, but they'll both be English beers, and recognisably so.
 
The thing is, that with your Tamil and Muslim Kashmiri restaurants, the overwhelming majority of people would have no difficulty in recognisinig both of them as 'Indian'.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SearchAndDestroy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:23
These are all not acceptable:
 
Quote This thread is about Indians and not Pakis.
You've been given the benefit of the doubt with this one.
 
Quote You know I don't know why but I don't really like S.E.Asians very much especially those from Malaysia, Vietnam/Laos and Philipines. Now I am not trying to be prejudiced or anything. But its just based on my experience, they tend to be the most ignorant.
 
 
Quote Now I don't quite blame you because coming from where you are and your family upbringing, such mindset might be the norm.
 
Originally posted by totally unacceptable and very childish totally unacceptable and very childish wrote:

You should learn to stfu when you have nothing better to say. Trust me, you'll be appreciated better that way.
 
Quote Indians from a certain section of the Hindu society, don't take sh*t from anyone.
Going with your last comment here, we tend to like to keep this forum clean. We don't appreciate members making assumptions on others, especially in degrading ways. If you care to last here for any significant amount of time, I'd suggest you learn to behave and make educated arguements. There's absolutly no excuse for what I quoted, it's wrong and hurtful to others and not appreciated here.
 
We won't let other attack you personally, you can argue against what they've said with knowledge, not telling them because of their nationality they wouldn't understand or even telling them to "stfu".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mangel_Pandey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:27
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

That's pretty offensive this neck of the woods calling someone a 'Paki', but regardless, I will assume you are abbreviating and not meaning it in a derogatory way. Anyway, she's Punjabi.  There are Punjabis in India too.


"Paki" is a derogatory word? Since when? I didn't know that... honestly.
Yes I did indeed mean it as an abbreviation. Yup Punjabis in Pakistan and India are pretty much the same for the most part. But I guess since I meant about stereotypes about Indians in particular, that reference wouldn't be in much be in accordance.

Pakistanis are rather homogenous much more so than Indians.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:28
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by Akolouthos Akolouthos wrote:

Mangel_Pandey, let me welcome you to the forum with a bit of advice: you should probably refrain from posting if you can't refrain from insulting people. Your time with us will be very brief if you continue in this manner.


 

-Akolouthos


Hello thank you for the welcome. My intention is not to insult anyone. Maybe I did come out abit more harsh, if that's the case then its my bad.

But the same message should go to the person who offended me, first. If you had told them off, I don't need to.

_____

I know people in general think Indians are push-overs who should take insults and sit in one corner sucking their thumb.

Traditional Indian music is an art form of my ancestors and I won't have anyone insult that. If they do, they can be sure I'm not going to be very nice to them.

Whether or not your intention is to "insult" you need take heed of what is being said in Akolouthos' post. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:29
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

That's pretty offensive this neck of the woods calling someone a 'Paki', but regardless, I will assume you are abbreviating and not meaning it in a derogatory way. Anyway, she's Punjabi.  There are Punjabis in India too.


"Paki" is a derogatory word? Since when? I didn't know that... honestly.
Yes I did indeed mean it as an abbreviation. Yup Punjabis in Pakistan and India are pretty much the same for the most part. But I guess since I meant about stereotypes about Indians in particular, that reference wouldn't be in much be in accordance.

Pakistanis are rather homogenous much more so than Indians.

No such thing as an Indian, especially if you dissect Pakistan and Bangladesh. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:32
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by cahaya cahaya wrote:

to be specific.... Bipasha ? Malikka...?? Ermm... Kareena... bla bla bla...


You know I don't know why but I don't really like S.E.Asians very much especially those from Malaysia, Vietnam/Laos and Philipines. Now I am not trying to be prejudiced or anything. But its just based on my experience, they tend to be the most ignorant.
Add me t the list of moderators watching you very carefully. You may not be trying to be prejudiced but you're doing an awfully good job of demonstrating that you are prejudiced.
Quote
And you have proven my generalization by equating some cheap sluts to something as refined and highy respected as Indian traditional music.

Now I don't quite blame you because coming from where you are and your family upbringing, such mindset might be the norm. But that's not how certain Indians feel, especially since our traditional music has religious significance as well.

You should learn to stfu when you have nothing better to say. Trust me, you'll be appreciated better that way.

Pardon me for me if I'm being harsh.
If you stop being insulting you won't have to need to beg for pardon. At this rate you're going to spend a lot of time on your knees in supplication.
Quote
I come from a certain section of Hindu society who are very particular about our culture.

I don't know what kind of Indians you have met. Maybe you are some Malay from Singapore who is used to seeing bastardization of Aryan culture by tamil coolies.

This may be new to you, just to let you know;

Indians from a certain section of the Hindu society, don't take sh*t from anyone. And if you hurt us in any way, be sure that we'll take our revenge and serve you double the dose.

Peace.
 
Don't be childish.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Dec 2009 at 05:35
Originally posted by Mangel_Pandey Mangel_Pandey wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

That's pretty offensive this neck of the woods calling someone a 'Paki', but regardless, I will assume you are abbreviating and not meaning it in a derogatory way. Anyway, she's Punjabi.  There are Punjabis in India too.


"Paki" is a derogatory word? Since when? I didn't know that... honestly.
Yes I did indeed mean it as an abbreviation. Yup Punjabis in Pakistan and India are pretty much the same for the most part. But I guess since I meant about stereotypes about Indians in particular, that reference wouldn't be in much be in accordance.

Pakistanis are rather homogenous much more so than Indians.


I wouldn't say Pakistanis are homogenous, since Indian is only a looser term than Pakistani by a degree or two if trying to define race. I wuold however say Punjabis are pretty homogenous as an ethnic group.

Paki is definitely derogatory here (UK) at pretty much the same level as "ni**er".  But I have heard it as an abbreviation amongst Indians and Pakistanis themselves who actually live in S Asia so that is why I assumed u were using it n that context.
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