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(physical) walking in Shamanism

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Aug 2015 at 23:45
I am reading Bolton on Aristeas of Proconnesus, a 7th c. BC Shamanic figure from Greece who travelled to around the Altai Mountains.  Some ancient sources make it look like an 'astral' journey, others (Herodotus) make it a physical journey.  I don't see why it cannot be both, an 'astral' (my term) journey, followed by a physical journey in a trance state.  Abaris of Hyperboreas is an example of a Shaman who went from Mongolia(?) to Greece, marching in just such a trance state (Kingsley).

Problem though is you look up "Shaman, walk" you get mind walk, air walk, anything it seems beside a physical walk over, through all obstacles like Abaris does.  I was wondering if anyone could point me to a source on this kind of trance walk (over real terrain) in Shamanism, and what its relationship to the 'mind walks/dream walks' commonly reported in the general modern impression of Shamanism?


Edited by franciscosan - 13 Aug 2015 at 23:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 01:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I am reading Bolton on Aristeas of Proconnesus, a 7th c. BC Shamanic figure from Greece who travelled to around the Altai Mountains.  Some ancient sources make it look like an 'astral' journey, others (Herodotus) make it a physical journey.  I don't see why it cannot be both, an 'astral' (my term) journey, followed by a physical journey in a trance state.  Abaris of Hyperboreas is an example of a Shaman who went from Mongolia(?) to Greece, marching in just such a trance state (Kingsley).

Problem though is you look up "Shaman, walk" you get mind walk, air walk, anything it seems beside a physical walk over, through all obstacles like Abaris does.  I was wondering if anyone could point me to a source on this kind of trance walk (over real terrain) in Shamanism, and what its relationship to the 'mind walks/dream walks' commonly reported in the general modern impression of Shamanism?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 02:22
Just trying to understand Shamanism so I can understand Aristeas of Proconnesus, so I can understand Aristeas of Metapontum, so I can understand Pythagoreanism, so I can understand Pythagoras.  Think of as passing the ball until the last one shoots and makes a basket.  Or of course, one can go straight from Shamanism to Pythagoras, but that might be travelling.
Bolton is clumsy about addressing Aristeas the shaman vs. Aristeas the traveller.  I am looking for background information showing that the two could be the same.  Of course, these days shamans just get on a jet plane, and so a dogged march in a trance across country straight over Mountains and rivers is not needed these days.
On the other hand, if you could do an off trail in trance march across difficult terrain at 6 miles/hour, for 14 hours a day (something like that), that would pretty much show that you have the stuff, anyone can claim to have a dream journey.
Bolton tends to discount Aristeas the shaman, and I would like to have information on _the nature_of_ Shamanism that shows that the stories of his physical travelling on the one hand, and his spiritual travelling are not inconsistent.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2015 at 04:37
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Just trying to understand Shamanism so I can understand Aristeas of Proconnesus, so I can understand Aristeas of Metapontum, so I can understand Pythagoreanism, so I can understand Pythagoras.  Think of as passing the ball until the last one shoots and makes a basket.  Or of course, one can go straight from Shamanism to Pythagoras, but that might be travelling.
Bolton is clumsy about addressing Aristeas the shaman vs. Aristeas the traveller.  I am looking for background information showing that the two could be the same.  Of course, these days shamans just get on a jet plane, and so a dogged march in a trance across country straight over Mountains and rivers is not needed these days.
On the other hand, if you could do an off trail in trance march across difficult terrain at 6 miles/hour, for 14 hours a day (something like that), that would pretty much show that you have the stuff, anyone can claim to have a dream journey.
Bolton tends to discount Aristeas the shaman, and I would like to have information on _the nature_of_ Shamanism that shows that the stories of his physical travelling on the one hand, and his spiritual travelling are not inconsistent.

Clearly you are functioning at a scholarly level well above anything I have the energy for.  I do however see the value in exploring the "spiritual" side of human nature.  There is obviously more to great thinkers than brain cells.

Keep us posted if you find something interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2015 at 23:28
The concept for it is really not that difficult, does anyone know stories about mystics marching across open terrain in a trance?  Also, what do they do when they start off?  Do they fall into a death like stupor, or go on a dream journey before going on a physical journey?

Unfortunately, marching across country,-over- or- through- everything, is not really a needed skill these days, it is not so much that the question is scholarly or academic, as it is esoteric. I could look up some people who are self-professed Shamans, but for some reason a self-professed shaman with a promotional site on the internet, doesn't quite feel right.  I would rather have historical reports, or anthropological reports on Shamanic (or mystic) behavior which addresses these cross country marches.  So, yeah, i guess that is scholarly.  You're right wolfhound, and while I doubt I'll find anything, I let you know if I do find something.
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