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Pigs suggest Vietnamese origin of Polynesians

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    Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 07:14
Already a couple of years ago one could read that the study of pigs DNA suggests that the ancestors of Malayo Polynesians maybe originally came from Vietnam and not from Taiwan as previously believed. One could see that the pigs that is held by Polynesians originally came from Vietnam, which is at least an indicator of that the people who brought these animals also came from there.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259920,00.html


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 22:01
This is as sound as evidence which suggests Iranic origins for Serbo-Croats, I believe livestock DNA was the indicator there too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 22:24
If you come from Taiwan to Malaya wouldn't you normally go via Vietnam?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Feb 2010 at 23:03
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

If you come from Taiwan to Malaya wouldn't you normally go via Vietnam?
 
It seems that the pigs on Taiwan are different though. But of course people can have migrated from Taiwan to Vietnam and picked up the pigs there. After that they spread to places like Indonesia, Phillipines and further out in the pacific.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 07:44
Because it would be completely impossible for anyone to change the breed of pig they used.

Incidentally, in my half asleep state my first thought was that this thread was suggesting something quite racist Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 09:21
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
It seems that the pigs on Taiwan are different though. But of course people can have migrated from Taiwan to Vietnam and picked up the pigs there. After that they spread to places like Indonesia, Phillipines and further out in the pacific.
 
Well, it just suggests that Malayo Polynesians did originate in Taiwan and picked the pigs in Vietnam. Otherwise, if they were in originally from the region what is now Vietnam, they would take the pigs from there to Taiwan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leonidas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 18:57
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
It seems that the pigs on Taiwan are different though. But of course people can have migrated from Taiwan to Vietnam and picked up the pigs there. After that they spread to places like Indonesia, Phillipines and further out in the pacific.
 
Well, it just suggests that Malayo Polynesians did originate in Taiwan and picked the pigs in Vietnam. Otherwise, if they were in originally from the region what is now Vietnam, they would take the pigs from there to Taiwan.
for all we know; these pigs could of originated in Taiwan or the adjacent Chinese coastline but have left no trace since.

 being found in Vietnam is nothing big, AFAIK linguistically Vietnamese is related so the connection alreday exists. Archaice domestic breeds can be found in many places.

Polynesians also east sweet potato but no one has suggested they are from south American



Edited by Leonidas - 02 Feb 2010 at 19:02
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 21:30
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
It seems that the pigs on Taiwan are different though. But of course people can have migrated from Taiwan to Vietnam and picked up the pigs there. After that they spread to places like Indonesia, Phillipines and further out in the pacific.
 
Well, it just suggests that Malayo Polynesians did originate in Taiwan and picked the pigs in Vietnam. Otherwise, if they were in originally from the region what is now Vietnam, they would take the pigs from there to Taiwan.


Even if people came from Taiwan to Vietnam and pick up pigs there some of them could as easily have moved back in the other direction and taken their pigs to Taiwan. So the abscense of vietnamese pigs in Taiwan do not necessarily suggests that the Malyo Polynesians originally came from there.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 22:37
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:



Even if people came from Taiwan to Vietnam and pick up pigs there some of them could as easily have moved back in the other direction and taken their pigs to Taiwan. So the abscense of vietnamese pigs in Taiwan do not necessarily suggests that the Malyo Polynesians originally came from there.


Those Australians must be Arabs then, since they have tons of camels from that peninsula and didn't bring any camels back to Britain.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 02 Feb 2010 at 22:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010 at 22:43
Well, its rather hard to compare movements of resources in modern times with migrations and interactions in the stone age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 12:52
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Well, its rather hard to compare movements of resources in modern times with migrations and interactions in the stone age.
Why? Couldn't the viet pigs be better adapted to tropical climates (or something similar) than Taiwanese ones? Just like Camels are better adapted to Australia than horses?
 
What if polynesians simply prefered the taste of viet pigs? There are too many variables to make a conclusion. Does the presences of wheat in England indicate that the English migrated from Iraq?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 14:56
Central Vietnam was, of course, home to peoples genetically related to both Taiwan Aboriginals and Filipino groups. Specifically the Cham, Rhade, Jarai, and Raglai. It would not surprise me that the pigs used by the people who became the seafaring Polynesians would be from what is today Vietnam. As for Vietnamese pigs these days, the pot-bellied Vietnamese pigs so ubiquitous in the 1960s have been replaced by Yorkshires and other breeds. No mean trick, that, considering that the pot-bellied pig, though smaller, was virtually immune to swine flu, which used to keep such breeds as the Yorkshire out of Vietnam. You can still find the pot-bellied variety in the Tribal areas all the way from Sapa to Dalat.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010 at 19:42
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Well, its rather hard to compare movements of resources in modern times with migrations and interactions in the stone age.
Why? Couldn't the viet pigs be better adapted to tropical climates (or something similar) than Taiwanese ones? Just like Camels are better adapted to Australia than horses?
 
What if polynesians simply prefered the taste of viet pigs? There are too many variables to make a conclusion. Does the presences of wheat in England indicate that the English migrated from Iraq?
 
Camels are imported from a very far place, in a context of modern trade networks and colonialism. The trade networks and networks of contact probably looked much different in the stone age. And actually there lived related people in Vietnam at that time too, so we do not necessarily have to include Taiwanese to explain the Malayo Polysesian migrations or the prescense of Vietnamese pigs in a Malayo Polynesian context.
 
But as always in these kind of questions, more research are surely needed to unravel all details about these ancient contacts and migrations.
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 03 Feb 2010 at 19:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010 at 06:54
Labeling origins within the context of contemporary national geography is not only misleading but at times nefarious when in the hands of the agenda minded!
 
Here is a summation of the original 2006 publication:
 
 
 
Here is the article in question:
 
 
Notice, we are discussing the Neolithic and to actually speak of Vietnam is a geographic convenience and not some assertion on ethnicity in contemporary terms. Nevertheless, when speaking of the Lapita Culture Complex one has to exorcise fancies associated with contemporary populations in any given region:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Feb 2010 at 13:42
I'm tempted to post some of the photos I took of contemporary  Polynesian pigs last I was in Tonga, quite an important part of society still.
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