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Polish-Persian similarities

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    Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 17:39
I was reading the wiki article about Polish language and saw some close similarity with Persian language. for sure many of us are aware of Indo-European similarities, but this one seems a little bit more so I said I will share it with you guys.
     Polish - English - Persian - Iranic
  • Ja jestem – I am - Man hastam - A hastem
  • Ty jestes – You are (familiar singular) - To hasty
  • On/ona/ono jest – He/she/it is -Ou/Oun hast -
  • My jestesmy – We are - Ma hastim
  • Wy jestescie – You are (plural) - Shoma hastid
  • Oni/one sa – They are (masculine/feminine) - Anha/ Ona hastand





Edited by Suren - 28 Jun 2010 at 08:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calvo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 18:01
Aren't Slavic langauges on the whole more related to iranic languages than to other branches of indo-european languages?
They both belong to the so-called "Saetem" dialect, while Italic, Celtic, Germanic languages belong to the "Centum" dialect, so I wouldn't be surprised if you find similarities.

Many Iranic peoples like the Scythians and Sarmatians had settled in both Persia and Poland, so these linguistic similtarities could be due to their influence. Just a speculation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 18:50

Body parts

 

Persian                             swedish                                        english

Lab                                   lep                                                lip

Bosse                                pussa                                              kiss

Abroo                                ogonbrun                                    eyebrow

Kale                                   skalle                                            skull

Dandan                               tand                                              dent

Chane                                  hache                                          chin

Naf                                      navel                                             belly button

 

Objects

 Dar                                     dorr                                                  door

Hasar                                   hus                                                 house

Tagh                                    tak                                                    roof

Gaw                                     ko                                                     cow

Band (nakh)                      band(rep)                                                

Goraz                                gris                                                    porc boar

Ghaz                                  gås(goas)                                                    goose

 Nam                                 namn                                                 name

Mard(mand)                      man                                                    man 

Baradar                               bror                                                   brother

Dokhtar                             dotter                                                 daughter

Pedar                                 fader                                                   father

Madar                                moder                                                 mother

Astar (asb)                         häst                                                     horse

Stabl                                   stall                                                     stable

Famil                                  familj                                                  family

Rah                                      väg                                                     road

Rast                                      rätt                                                     right

Mah                                      mån(moan)                                           moon

Setare                                   stjärna                                               star

Div                                       djävul                                                devel

Behatr                                  bättre                                                 better

Tandar(raad)                       åska(dunder)                                     thunder

Pari                                      älv                                                     fairy

Robah                                 räv                                                      fox

Bordan                               bära                                                    bearing

Mess(metal)                     messing  (copper alloy)                          copper

Ahan                                järn                                                       iron

Moosh                             mus                                                       mouse

Mian                               mellan                                                   between

Mor(morche)                  myra                                                      ant

Gerd(jerd)  (settelement)   gård  (goaard)                                     yard

 

Man                                    mig(may)                                               me

Greftan                               gripa                                                    to grip

 ostan                               stad                                                     city(latin)

 istadan                            stanna                                                 standing   

e-man                                min                                                       mine                                                                   

 it is only one page of the simmilarity i found  between persian and swedish and english. there are much more and every time i hear some thing odd it sounds familliar.

 



Edited by kalhor - 20 Jan 2010 at 05:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 19:08
Some of those Swedish words are either misspelled, of a different wordclass or means something different entirely.

Quote
I was reading the wiki article about Polish language and saw some close similarity with Persian language. for sure many of us are aware of Indo-European similarities, but this one seems a little bit more so I said I will share it with you guys. 
How is it "more"? The Slavic languages lies somewhere in the middle between Iranic and Germanic langauges, somewhat closer to the latter. It's not really strange it has common features with both groups. 


Edited by Styrbiorn - 19 Jan 2010 at 19:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 19:14
I'd be more surprised if there weren't any similarities.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 19:15
which ones means something else . would you mention?. missspeling is i agree with you. it was just for showing the simmilarity. of course these languages has been separated for thousends of years. it would be strange if they were identical today. even old swedish s very different to modern swedish.

Edited by kalhor - 19 Jan 2010 at 19:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 19:19
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

which ones means something else . would you mention?. missspeling is i agree with you
I was hasty, it was only one: messing (actually a with dots, but of some reason Allempires no longer allows non-English letters, making language discussions very difficult), which means brass. Copper is koppar. :)

By the way, tandar/thunder might be translated as dunder in Swedish, but refers mostly to the sound of thunder, not thunder itself (but obviously it was once the same word). There are tons of similarities, on the account of them both being IE languages. 


Edited by Styrbiorn - 19 Jan 2010 at 19:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 19:32
styrbjörn
strangely  the simmilarity between persian and french  or italian or spanish(latin languages) is much much less. i have read french and find very few words which means the same thing ?!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 19:48
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

styrbjörn
strangely  the simmilarity between persian and french  or italian or spanish(latin languages) is much much less. i have read french and find very few words which means the same thing ?!

The internal relationships of the IE languages are not known, and groupings comes in and out of fashion all the time. Germanic is often considered closest to Slavic, while some disagree. Generally, grammar and syntax is as important for determining relationship as direct word similarities - the prime modern example is the Germanic language English, which has Germanic grammar but a majority of French (which is an Italic language) words.
A new computer-based study to determine the relationships divided the languages in two major groups. They put Germanic close to Slavic, with Celtic and Italic as next nearest neighbours. These made the first group. The second group consisted of Albanian, Greek, Iranian and Indic. 

I might also add that most of the words on your list are very old words, and thus likely to be similar, though I do agree there is a remarkable similarity.


Edited by Styrbiorn - 19 Jan 2010 at 19:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kalhor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jan 2010 at 20:03
this determination sounds a bit more geografical to me, because i have hard to find so much  simillarity between greek(latin group) and persian. the latin influence in english is maybe due to (french)normand occupation of england of course it is just my own  observation. no doubt there is a deep relation between slavic and germanic languages and slavic -persian too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 12:43
Originally posted by calvo calvo wrote:

Aren't Slavic langauges on the whole more related to iranic languages than to other branches of indo-european languages?
 
I would say they more related to Iranic languages out of the Western branch of IE languages as we discussed it in another thread I believe.
 
Numerals are especially similar up to 6.
 
Farsi         Russian
 
1. Yek          Odin

2. Do            Dva

3. Se             Tri

4. Chahar     Chetyre

5. Panj         Piat

6. Sheh        Shest

7. Haft         Sem

8. Hasht       Vosem

9. Noh         Deviat

10. Dah         Desiat

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2010 at 18:08
Poland is near Germany hence Polish is close to German and since German is Persian then Polish is also Persian. Its called Logic.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 09:46
If you are referring to the Germanic lang an Iranic sub group thread then yes.Wink Joking aside, Persian have more similarity with Slavic, and with Germanic lang in some extend or at least I find it that way. Greek and Latin has more similarity with Armenian lang. 


Edited by Suren - 28 Jun 2010 at 08:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gruvawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 19:40

Body parts

 

Persian                             swedish                                        english               spanish

Lab                                   lep                                                lip                         labio

Bosse                                pussa                                              kiss                     beso

Naf                                      navel                              belly button/navel         umbiligo

 

Objects

Hasar                                   hus                                                 house                  casa

Tagh                                    tak                                          thatched roof/ roof                   techo

Gaw                                     ko                                                     cow                      vaca

Goraz                                gris                         pork(meat)/ boar (wild pig)                 puerco

 Nam                                 namn                                                 name                  nombre

Mard(mand)                      man                                                    man                  hombre

Pedar                                 fader                                                   father               padre/papa

Madar                                moder                                                 mother             madre/mama

Stabl                                   stall                          stable/stalls are the compartments inside

Famil                                  familj                                                  family               familia

Setare                                   stjärna                                               star             estrella

Div                                       djävul                                               devil                diablo

Mess(metal)                     messing  (copper alloy)                          copper               cobre

Ahan                                järn                                                       iron                ferro

Mor(morche)                  myra                                                      ant                  hormiga


i added some spanish and clarified some of the english.



Edited by gruvawn - 21 Jan 2010 at 20:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gruvawn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2010 at 20:07
greek isn't in the latin group. it is it's own group. they have similarities like any two IE languages, but are as different as farsi/persian and german.

the norman rule over england didn't have as much influence on the language as the later study of latin in english schools, because the english speakers as a rule didn't learn french, and the normans didn't want to learn english. french was the language of the courts and aristocracy i.e. norman rulers. some people did learn the other language but not many and usually only enough of it to give and receive direction. later, the english speaking aristocracy learned french and that did have some effect on the english language.

it may be harder to find cognates in french for the purposes of this thread because french is a mixture of the latin, the germanic frankish language, and possibly bits of the celtic gallic language.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2010 at 11:24
Regi the word for girl in Norsk (jente) means bitch in Persian. I just found out and had a big laugh about it with my Cousin who lives in Oslo.Embarrassed


Edited by Suren - 28 Jun 2010 at 08:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2010 at 01:45
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

this determination sounds a bit more geografical to me, because i have hard to find so much  simillarity between greek(latin group) and persian. the latin influence in english is maybe due to (french)normand occupation of england of course it is just my own  observation. no doubt there is a deep relation between slavic and germanic languages and slavic -persian too.
It wasn't geographical - geography wasn't taken into the study at all. The investigation (search for Hans Holm) considered changes in words, phonetics and grammar, and traced them backwards in time. That's the only practical possibility to determine when languages split from each other. The method is of course not so simple as it sounds, since you need to determine whether changes could have happened independently etc. I haven't seen any more comprehensive studies than that. I'll see if I can find a link, though I doubt it'd be open access. 


Edited by Styrbiorn - 23 Jan 2010 at 01:47
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If the Farsi below is correct, then I will add a Lithuanian listing to it:

Farsi         Russian        Lithuanian
 
1. Yek          Odin            Vienas (Viens)

2. Do            Dva             Du (dveji)

3. Se             Tri               Trys (trejetas)

4. Chahar     Chetyre       Keturi (accent on "i")

5. Panj         Piat              Penki (accent on "i")

6. Sheh        Shest            Sheshi

7. Haft         Sem              Septyni

8. Hasht       Vosem          Ashtuoni

9. Noh         Deviat           Devyni

10. Dah         Desiat         Deshimt(s)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2012 at 04:17
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

this determination sounds a bit more geografical to me, because i have hard to find so much  simillarity between greek(latin group) and persian. the latin influence in english is maybe due to (french)normand occupation of england of course it is just my own  observation. no doubt there is a deep relation between slavic and germanic languages and slavic -persian too.
It wasn't geographical - geography wasn't taken into the study at all. The investigation (search for Hans Holm) considered changes in words, phonetics and grammar, and traced them backwards in time. That's the only practical possibility to determine when languages split from each other. The method is of course not so simple as it sounds, since you need to determine whether changes could have happened independently etc. I haven't seen any more comprehensive studies than that. I'll see if I can find a link, though I doubt it'd be open access. 


I thought jende was whore and the swedes would pronounce the j like y not like English J.

The numbers - Persian for 6 is sheesh not sheh.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2012 at 20:42
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:

Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

this determination sounds a bit more geografical to me, because i have hard to find so much  simillarity between greek(latin group) and persian. the latin influence in english is maybe due to (french)normand occupation of england of course it is just my own  observation. no doubt there is a deep relation between slavic and germanic languages and slavic -persian too.
It wasn't geographical - geography wasn't taken into the study at all. The investigation (search for Hans Holm) considered changes in words, phonetics and grammar, and traced them backwards in time. That's the only practical possibility to determine when languages split from each other. The method is of course not so simple as it sounds, since you need to determine whether changes could have happened independently etc. I haven't seen any more comprehensive studies than that. I'll see if I can find a link, though I doubt it'd be open access. 


I thought jende was whore and the swedes would pronounce the j like y not like English J.

The numbers - Persian for 6 is sheesh not sheh.


Yes, in the Scandinavian languages 'j' is pronounced like the English 'y'  (while 'y' is a vowel). The word for girl is pronounced like 'yen-teh' or 'yen-tah' in Norwegian and Swedish respectively.


edit: I didn't notice you were quoting me Big smile It is weird to read something you wrote years ago.



Edited by Styrbiorn - 17 May 2012 at 20:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 May 2012 at 23:28
Yes its weird when these threads crop up again.

Javing said that though, J and Y (as the pronunciation goes) are interchanged between English and other Germanic languages.  Not really sure of the reason for this.

So Joseph is Yoseph.  John is Yohan.  And this change came across from the transferance of the names from Semitic languages to Greek, then Roman then Germanic.

I think also that if you wish to compare similarities, modern Persian is not really that good for grammar and sentence structuring purposes because it is greatly simplified from its Pahlavi forebear and that also from Old Persian.  For example a lot of sounds have been lost from words and the positioning of words in sentences has changed.

For example demonym extensions have been simplified to a simple I as opposed to IC/IG and words such as AND have become O/U instead of UHD/OHD.

Also you cannot neglect semtiic and caucasian influences on Persian which have roots as old as the beginings of IE civilisation on the Iranian plateau and thereafter the affect of the Islamic Sharia law system which is in Arabic and therefore extensively penetrated into the common language as Latin has in English.  Such penetration is lacking from the rural dialects and languages commonly used by peasants of the countries.


Edited by Zagros - 17 May 2012 at 23:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2014 at 17:30
Today I stumbled on another Polish phrase very close to Iranian phrase.  "Nia Vaj/Waj" I assume it means "don't say that" there is a very similar word in my father's native language which is "Ne Vaj" which means don't say/ dont talk. Vaj (J here sound like French pronunciation of Joseph) comes from the roots of Vajeh ( word aka kalameh) in Persian. In my father's native language the root of Vaj is be-vaten/ be-vajen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 09:28
Never heard of Polish ward Ne Vay.
But you are right, there is same wards in Polish which originate from Farsi language. eg doroszka (Read doroshka) which mean horse drown passenger cart.(or horse cart taxi for public transport)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 09:53
It's amazing from the North Sea to the India, people speak languages from same family. And we Caucasians (people of Caucasian mountains) cannot be related with each other, generally... Tongue

Only ones speaking a language from same family with Lazs are Georgians, Swans and Mingrelians Cry And together all four forming a language family that doesn't relate to any other language or language family Cry

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 10:51
Originally posted by Goral Goral wrote:

Never heard of Polish ward Ne Vay.
But you are right, there is same wards in Polish which originate from Farsi language. eg doroszka (Read doroshka) which mean horse drown passenger cart.(or horse cart taxi for public transport)

I saw it in a movie and the guy clearly said Nia Vazh in Polish. He intended to stop another person to continue talking or doing something.

NIA VAZH, ZH is like the s sound in word Treasure.

How do you say don't talk or don't say in Polish. I am sure the first part means not in Polish "Nie". The English subtitle was irrelevant that's why I am asking here, and I know the verb for speak in polish is mówić.


Edited by Harburs - 02 Jan 2014 at 11:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 11:29
Originally posted by Harburs Harburs wrote:



Originally posted by Goral Goral wrote:

Never heard of Polish ward Ne Vay.
But you are right, there is same wards in Polish which originate from Farsi language. eg doroszka (Read doroshka) which mean horse drown passenger cart.(or horse cart taxi for public transport)


I saw it in a movie and the guy clearly said Nia Vazh in Polish. He intended to stop another person to continue talking or doing something.

NIA VAZH, ZH is like the s sound in word Treasure.

How do you say don't talk or don't say in Polish. I am sure the first part means not in Polish "Nie". The English subtitle was irrelevant that's why I am asking here.


Yep, now I know!!! It is just wrong (not polish) spelling which mislead me.
The polish words are "nie waz". In sentence "nie waz sie" the meaning is "don't you dare". So you were right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 12:13
Thanx for your help with Polish. I am just curious about my father's native language which has relatively remained untouched since past two thousands years. It even has male and female pronouns which are uncommon in other Iranic languages. There are rumors that this language is a remnant of the old Scythian language and only 36000 people can speak it. I am just researching any close language which may have some possible Sarmatian or Scythian connection.  Ossetian is the only supposed direct remnant of Sarmatian/Alan/Scythian language. Polish, Ukrainian and Croat are other possible languages with some Scythian elements. That is why I am interested in comparing them with this language.

Edited by Harburs - 02 Jan 2014 at 12:15
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" Zoroaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Goral Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 12:20
Polish noblemen always claimed that they are decedents of Sarmatians, but there is no historical proof of this claim.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2014 at 12:26
I am aware of that. It may be true in some extend, but as you mentioned there is no solid historical proof for that. But Scythians and Sarmatians tribes roamed around Eastern Europe for centuries before disappearing from history. They most likely assimilated by Slavic and Germanic tribes. The last group was Alans which traveled all the way from Black Sea to north Africa with Vandals. So there might be some connection from here and there waiting for to be discovered.

Edited by Harburs - 02 Jan 2014 at 12:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 2014 at 02:31
Originally posted by kalhor kalhor wrote:

styrbjörn
strangely  the simmilarity between persian and french  or italian or spanish(latin languages) is much much less. i have read french and find very few words which means the same thing ?!


What's strange about that? - Latin is much closer to British and modern
'Welsh' because, presumably, the people speaking Celtic and Italic separated from one another later.
Mochyn i bob un
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