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Post WWI Revolutions

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Parnell View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 02:04
Its possibly one of the more overlooked issues in modern European history, but in the years immediately following WWI several countries witnessed bloody nationalist and other ideological revolutions, of both a militaristic or social kind.

There is the example of Hungary, which languished in a vain effort to define itself, or Bavaria, which sought it's independence. But it goes without saying that my particular interest is in Ireland, where British rule was contested by a few thousand farmer's and lower middle class shop assistants with cheap Carbini rifles.

What was the effect of WWI on these revolutions? We know that the Bavarian revolution influenced Hitler. Unfortunately the Irish Revolution didn't influence much other than a revolution in demographics...


Edited by Parnell - 05 Mar 2010 at 02:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 02:11
We should not overlook the revolutions which took place in the Caucasus region, where Georgia, Armenia and Azerbaijan established brief states which were soon exstinguished by the resurgence military might of Russia which reappeared in Soviet garb. These revolutions were significant more so than some others in the former Russian Empire, as they set a precedent which could be revived and built upon at the end of the 20th century.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 02:38
Hmmm... Those were just a part of the chaos that overwhelmed the former Russian empire.
 
There were, in fact, no any real "revolutions" there. Just the former administration disappeared and whatever active political forces occupied the vacuum.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 02:47
Quite true, the real violence in those areas followed after the Communists reasserted themselves and invaded.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 03:58
Why limit the topic to Europe, the years 1919-1921 witnessed political turmoil and reaction on a global basis. I surmise that Constantine IX is correct and had no need to retreat if one is to gain any understanding of the subsequent history of the Ukraine or central Europe for that matter. In terms of the Near East and the Indian Subcontinent a review of those years will bring some interesting surprises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 10:15
The following question may seem "unhistorical" to some of You, since it is a question about "evaluating the past" - perhaps even from our later perspective. Then let it be so.
The question is what positive  "we" (some of us now) may have inherited from those revolutions, not to say those of the world war(especially Lenins rise to power) itself? There could perhaps be some argument wether or not we should see that period as an era of "errors"?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 13:15
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Why limit the topic to Europe, the years 1919-1921 witnessed political turmoil and reaction on a global basis. I surmise that Constantine IX is correct and had no need to retreat if one is to gain any understanding of the subsequent history of the Ukraine or central Europe for that matter. In terms of the Near East and the Indian Subcontinent a review of those years will bring some interesting surprises.


Well feel free to talk about non European revolutions. I'm only properly familiar with the Irish Revolution and was hoping to skew the conversation in that way. But international examples would be interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Mar 2010 at 14:26
Indeed the drgonzaga is right, why stop at euopre? revolutions and unrest erupted everywhere and one of the main reason was the end of four of the oldest autocratic empires in the world and the replacement of them by new democratic, semi-democratic or even revolutionary regimes.
 
The last couple of decades of the 19th century and the first decade of the 20th saw a revolution in the form of mass education, the rise new political ideologies, the succumbing of old empires to their populace and giving them political rights (The Ottomans and The Russians called their own elected parliaments in 1877 and 1909 and 1905 respectively). There was a period of strong economic growth across the world in those days and a middle class was beginning to form.
 
WWI changed all of that. The middle classes saw their fate highjacked by poweful unelected autocrats and they had to go with it. The war distroyed everything. Some countries lost 25% of their total populations, others lost an entire generation of their youth while those in the colonies saw their sons taken into a european war with little hope of them returning.
 
After the war ended and the collapse of the aformentioned empires by way of the people's revolt everyone took his chance. The Irish rebelled, then the Egyptians, the Iraqis, the Indians, the Iranians, the Turks etc. Some of those succeeded, some didn't but in the end everybody knew that the old imperial ways have died with WWI.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2010 at 01:24

Another hint: Two national historical traditions emphasize that their people are the original "revolutionaries": the Mexican and Chinese!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2010 at 23:41
How about the original Sandino revolution in Nicaragua, that in many ways foreshadowed later Latin Revolutions, to include the Cuban. Sandinos struggle against U.S. Marines and their Guardia Nacional drew a lot of support throughout Latin America, and many Latin revolutionaries from outside Nicaragua went their to fight for his cause. These ranged from the Honduran 'bandit' Juan Pablo Ulmanzor to the Salvadorean Communist, Farabundo Marti. Also, East Asia should not be overlooked. The Korean struggle for independence had all the earmarks of a revolution. The March 1st (Sam-il in Korean) demonstrations against the Japanese were put down with with enough harshness to spur a backlash, not unlike what happened in Ireland in the wake of the Easter 1916 rebellion. As a result, a provisional government was organized in Shanghai (within the French concession). It too attracted some of the leading lights from Korea's left and right. Though the provisional government proved far less conservative when it came to military operations, the Korean left certainly picked up the torch from the Righteous Armies, fighting primarily in Manchuria until 1941. The end result was that in 1945 Korea had three claimant groups demanding their right to form a government, all of whom had far more legitimacy than Ho Chi Minh had at that time.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2010 at 13:21

With respect to the original proposal, revolution and WW I, Lirelou, the activities of Augusto Cesar Calderon Sandino would be, at most, peripheral since the origins of his "resistance" have purely American roots (and a long indigenous tradition). In effect, it is the contrapuntal consequence to the consolidation of empire [i.e. United States] rather than its disintegration (the same may be said of events in Korea with respect to the Japanese--keep in mind that both the US and Japan intrude upon the "world stage" at roughly the identical time).

I mentioned both Mexico and China as examples of social revolutions (1910 and 1912 respectively) because they were challenges to the Old Order and called for the dismantling of foreign economic domination [in the instance of China that was obvious, but few people are actually familiar with the extent of control in Mexico by Anglo-French investment in the years 1880-1900]. However, you have indirectly proposed a theme for a totally separate thread: World War I and the consolidation of the Latin American Left as a hemispheric phenomenon.  
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