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Migration of the Xiongnu

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Category: REGIONAL HISTORY
Forum Name: Ancient NCA to 550 AD
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URL: http://www.worldhistoria.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=125327
Printed Date: 04 Apr 2020 at 19:36
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Topic: Migration of the Xiongnu
Posted By: calvo
Subject: Migration of the Xiongnu
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2010 at 00:42
As linguistic and genetic evidence reveal, the westward migration of the Xiongnu in the 3d century A.D. was one of the most important, yet least documented population movements in inner Asia.
Over the period of 2 centuries, the de-facto language of Central Asia transformed from Iranic and Tocharian to Turkic, and with the Mongoloid physical type intermixing with and predominating over the Europoid type, introducing new languages and physionomies into eastern Europe.
Some historians argue that the decline of the Sassanid dynasity in Persia could owe a great deal to the susbtitution of a Iranic-speaking majority to Turkic speaking majority in Central Asia, thus depriving them of a futile ground of military recruitment, especially cavalry.

There are a number of questions that I'd like to ask:

1. what drove the Xiongnu to migrate westwards? Such a large migration could only take place because of some major ecological reason, such as drought, pastures turning to desert, or temperture changes. Logically speaking, if they migrated westwards into deep Central Asia they'd be finding themselves in an even drier terrain of even more extreme climate.

2. how many of them migrated? As a nomadic people, their numbers couldn't have been too large, and many of the ancient silk-road nations were sedentary farmers. But for their genes to become dominate in the area, they either had to commit whole-scale massacres or the number of migrants were larger than the autoctonous population.

3. Did they migrate as a single tribal alliance, or as totally independent tribes? Offshoots of the Xiongnu were recorded in later centuries, such as the Huns, Hephthalites in the 5th centuries, the Bulgars and Onogurs in the 8th etc., but what happened during the period of migration: 3rd-5th century? Did Atilla's father or grandfather take part in the migration?

4. the relation between the Xiongnu offshoots and the Gokturk Empire?

 



Replies:
Posted By: Reck
Date Posted: 24 Feb 2010 at 23:18
I am Hun's direct descendant mongol man.
1.In 1st century Hun divided into 2 part: Northern Hun, Southern Hun koz of internal conflict.This time in Hun were 5 king and all fought each other.Then 2 king.Chinese Han supported Southern Hun koz they're wanted to weak the Hun and southern Hun and China won northern Hun's king and killed.Southerns became vassal of Han but Xiangbei or Syanbi /in mongolian Sumbe/ mongols in 93 AD conquered Northern Hun's main population 500 000 huns and found the Xiangbei state and the king Tangxihuai attacked to China and won.The reason of migration uncertain like many other nations.In ancient time all nations migrated:aryans, germans /vandals, goths/ , hungarians etc.Maybe they're seeked for new land.
2.For migrated northern Huns, they're were fewer than nortehrn Huns who's stayed in Mongolia : 100 000-300 000?
3.Huns or Asian Huns were pure mongols and mongoloid.It's already proven.Genetical research in Mongolian Egiin-gol river of 2009 proved that Huns are mongols.For migrated Huns, it's no federation of mongol and turkic.Maybe they're were more mixed but ruling class was mongol.I think family of Attila also migrated with these Huns.History of Hun of 3-5th century uncertain , they're first were in Volga region then in Black sea region at the end they're reached in Dunai.
4.There're no ethnic relation between them koz Huns are mongols.But Gokturk borrowed Hun runic style-alphabet, military& state structure.They're no one nation but both Altaic.


Posted By: drgonzaga
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 02:36
First, you were a Kalmyk, then a Moghul Hazar, and now a Hun, Reck!?!

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Honi soit qui mal y pense


Posted By: Reck
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 02:52
Hmm, Kalmyk, Hazara, Hun-all Mongolians.


Posted By: calvo
Date Posted: 25 Feb 2010 at 17:33
Most mainstream scholars claim that the majority ethnicity within the Xiongnu federation was Turkic, although Mongol, Iranic, Tocharian, and Ugrian elements could also have formed a percentage.
Most off-shoots of the Xiongnu, such as the Bulgars and the Onogurs, were clearly Turkic-speaking people.


Posted By: Reck
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2010 at 23:57
i am tired of all these liars, such you.


Posted By: Seko-
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 01:40
Welcome to the world of scholarly jousting Reck. The more sophisticated your arguments the more points you earn. Feel free to counter claims with insight and artful debating. However, stooping to personal commentary on fellow members is bound to get you attention you may not desire.


Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 03:11
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

3.Huns or Asian Huns were pure mongols and mongoloid.It's already proven.Genetical research in Mongolian Egiin-gol river of 2009 proved that Huns are mongols.For migrated Huns, it's no federation of mongol and turkic.Maybe they're were more mixed but ruling class was mongol.I think family of Attila also migrated with these Huns.\
 
You, obviously, know nothing about Mongolian or Hun history.
 
The only evidence we have says that Xiongnu were ancestors of Turkic tribes, the ancestors of Mongolic speakers were Donghu who were defeated by Xiongnu's Modu Shanyu.
 
But, anyway, it's almost certainly that you never heard of such things.
 
Apparently, you believe that Huns just wanted to go to Mongolia, but Russians killed them or something like that...


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Σαρμάτ



Posted By: drgonzaga
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 03:57
I do believe that before further clouds appear on the horizon, the discussion should move within the perspectives set out by Walter Pohl, who not only summarizes the "opinions" of the past but does a damned good job in terms of contemporary research and its present coclusion. Begin with the below text:
 
http://www.oeaw.ac.at/gema/pub_wp.htm - http://www.oeaw.ac.at/gema/pub_wp.htm
 
If we are to remained mired in the 18th century perceptions of Joseph de Guignes, we might just as well throw up our hands and freeze frame to AD 151! Anyone up to the Chuy (Yueban)?


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Honi soit qui mal y pense


Posted By: Reck
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 20:10
Seko, i advise you tell this word to other ppl, like Sarmat, drgonzaga
and you own.I never began personal attack first.It's so clear.If you don't understand it, it's good for close this forum.It's interesting, Seko, what's your ethnicity? I have right ask this , koz moderator revealed my IP.
Sarmat, russians stealed our land so don't steal our history, ivan-man.Why you living in ur enemy's country-USA?And i never wrote Huns went back to mongolia.Why u want to begin again quarrel?


Posted By: Reck
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2010 at 20:16
And i know about this battle between Donghu-Hun.But itsn't mean- Hun's not mongol.


Posted By: Sarmat
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 00:39
Originally posted by Reck Reck wrote:

Seko, i advise you tell this word to other ppl, like Sarmat, drgonzaga
and you own.I never began personal attack first.It's so clear.If you don't understand it, it's good for close this forum.It's interesting, Seko, what's your ethnicity? I have right ask this , koz moderator revealed my IP.
Sarmat, russians stealed our land so don't steal our history, ivan-man.Why you living in ur enemy's country-USA?And i never wrote Huns went back to mongolia.Why u want to begin again quarrel?
 
I don't want to begin quarrel with you. But, you know, people here discuss history. You seem to be motivated here by some hate to Russians or other people and also some false assumptions which have nothing to do with history.
 
Everybody, is open for a friendly discussion with you, but when other members (who are not "ivan-men" BTW and who did not "steal your land") point you at some basic historical facts, you call them "liars."
 
Believe me or not, but, unfortunately, your impressions of history are totally incorrect.
 
And I don't consider USA "as my enemy" I don't see any enemies around and I'm not looking for them, I'm looking for friends.
 
All humanity is one family, that is what I believe in.
 
Peace
 


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Σαρμάτ



Posted By: Reck
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 01:34
Sarmat, we're never don't reach to one opinion, koz of our ethnicity.So we're don't need talk, if now begin war, maybe i'd like shoot u for ur all false word, OK?


Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 28 Feb 2010 at 02:15

Reck,

There will be no personal threats on this forum. This thread is locked pending a discussion in the mod room.
 
-Akolouthos



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