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Early humans spread into North Asia - and Americas

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Category: REGIONAL HISTORY
Forum Name: Ancient NCA to 550 AD
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URL: http://www.worldhistoria.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=127062
Printed Date: 30 Mar 2020 at 17:57
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Topic: Early humans spread into North Asia - and Americas
Posted By: fantasus
Subject: Early humans spread into North Asia - and Americas
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 09:12
The discussion about early arrival of homo sapiens in the Americas goes on as one can see from the website of Scientific American, November. This it seems to me as not any isolated "American" event, but more likely as part of immigrations into North East Asia, so we may speculate about the nearest relatives in Siberia and other parts of Central and North East Asia. The great "barrier" to overcome  may have been the often inhospitable environments and temperatures of North Asia, and the arrival of humans in the Americas not to be separated from the spread into those regions. How much is known about the early Humans in this vast region of the planet?



Replies:
Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 12:38
It is known that Amerindians are related to Siberian natives, Turks and other Asians.


Posted By: drgonzaga
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 15:53
Oh no not an "engineer" commenting on genetics and then delivering a dictat on genetic fathering! Will wonders never cease even if one want to throw in an extraneous Turk. How about this background?
 
The Origin of Amerindians and the Peopling of the Americas According to HLA Genes: Admixture with Asian and Pacific People
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874220/" rel="nofollow - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874220/
 
And will wonders never cease:
 
Were Spaniards among the first Americans?
 
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/286/5444/1467.1.summary" rel="nofollow - http://www.sciencemag.org/content/286/5444/1467.1.summary
 
Of course these footloose Solutreans are rather more possible than a Turk in the Amerindian family tree.


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Honi soit qui mal y pense


Posted By: fantasus
Date Posted: 20 Oct 2011 at 19:07
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Oh no not an "engineer" commenting on genetics and then delivering a dictat on genetic fathering! Will wonders never cease even if one want to throw in an extraneous Turk. How about this background?
 
The Origin of Amerindians and the Peopling of the Americas According to HLA Genes: Admixture with Asian and Pacific People
 
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874220/" rel="nofollow - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2874220/
 
And will wonders never cease:
 
Were Spaniards among the first Americans?
 
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/286/5444/1467.1.summary" rel="nofollow - http://www.sciencemag.org/content/286/5444/1467.1.summary
 
Of course these footloose Solutreans are rather more possible than a Turk in the Amerindian family tree.
Genetic studies alone is not enough to tell us about"alternative" routes to the "Beringian" even less large boat trips. The peoples of Northeast Asia may have been different from those today (where we still find peoples like the ainus in Japan, many chinese minorities, that differ much from their neighbours). Most likely the Americas were peopled in the same way as the rest of the temperate and cold regions of the planet - only this time there was a way south too.


Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 20:42
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:


Of course these footloose Solutreans are rather more possible than a Turk in the Amerindian family tree.


Solutreans are the last attempt of the European racists to robb the heritage of the American Indians. I wonder when Europeans will stop robbing from our continent. These fantasy-tellers will fail like all these attemps have failed in the past.

So, sorry. the Siberians, Mongolians and Turks are the closest relatives in Eurasia to the American Indians, and that it is sustained by genetic studies.

It is tragically funny that when the Spaniards were destroying the Americas and devasting the Amerindian populations to extract money, at the same time the Turks were destroying the Europeans! Isn't history funny?


Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 20:46
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

...
Genetic studies alone is not enough to tell us about"alternative" routes to the "Beringian" even less large boat trips. The peoples of Northeast Asia may have been different from those today (where we still find peoples like the ainus in Japan, many chinese minorities, that differ much from their neighbours). Most likely the Americas were peopled in the same way as the rest of the temperate and cold regions of the planet - only this time there was a way south too.


Don't you understand that those "boat" theories are racist? Amerindians and Inuits came to the New World by Bering, and that was it.

But yes, the ancient Easter Asia was populated by diverse people, among them Turkic, Europoids, Ainus, Austronesians and others, all of which were pushed south (and probably east as well) when the Mongols start to dominate the region, thousands of years ago.


Posted By: fantasus
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 23:18
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

...
Genetic studies alone is not enough to tell us about"alternative" routes to the "Beringian" even less large boat trips. The peoples of Northeast Asia may have been different from those today (where we still find peoples like the ainus in Japan, many chinese minorities, that differ much from their neighbours). Most likely the Americas were peopled in the same way as the rest of the temperate and cold regions of the planet - only this time there was a way south too.


Don't you understand that those "boat" theories are racist? Amerindians and Inuits came to the New World by Bering, and that was it.

But yes, the ancient Easter Asia was populated by diverse people, among them Turkic, Europoids, Ainus, Austronesians and others, all of which were pushed south (and probably east as well) when the Mongols start to dominate the region, thousands of years ago.
I try to avoid this discussion of "racist" vs. "non-racist" theories, since I find it better to discuss wether they are "reasonable" or not. So far I find the "Beringian" theories the most convincing, but still that leaves plenty of open questions. There could even have been immigration routes that way either along the coastlines or by rivers inland. And only exavations in Siberia, and even on the islands beyond and in underwater former parts of that region, can tell us if the peoples more than ten thousands year ago were most like the peoples there today or other-  genetically as well as cultural.Then how could it happen? Why not climate change and retreating glaciers, at least locally for a period or some similar proces.


Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 30 Oct 2011 at 23:35
I agree with you. The problem with the archaeology of the time is that the land along the coast in the bering, and in almost all the Americas, sunk! The crossing was probably done by a mixture of warking and boat riding along the western coasts of the Americas. That's no doubt.
What is known is that the earlies settlers of South America were fishermen that lived along the coasts! And they arrived to Patagonia just a few decades, or centuries, after they cross Beringia!

(Now that's very different from imagine peoples crossing the Atlantic or the Pacific in such a remote times, like have been said in some wild propositions like the Solutrian "theory", that I detest)




Posted By: pinguin
Date Posted: 31 Oct 2011 at 14:32
Yes, both hypothesis are in discussion right now, but both are variations on the same issue of the Bering crossing.



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