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Trump and the domestic arena

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Topic: Trump and the domestic arena
Posted By: franciscosan
Subject: Trump and the domestic arena
Date Posted: 15 Mar 2017 at 21:54
This thread is for discussing President Trump and his domestic affect.
I like including the word "arena" because Trump is definitely
scrappy and belligerent.  I don't think Trump will ever
entirely be "domesticated," he is not a very "civil" person.
But by domestic, I mean events that happen within
the United States, its political system, and to a lesser
extent its cultural influence.  I would include the
"economic" realm in this category for now.

President Trump seems to have been accompanied by an upturn 
in the market, to me this is not surprising because President
Obama berated Wall Street, businesses and investors using
the bully pulpit of the Presidency.  Statistics show that the
economy improved after the recession during President Obama's 
 term, but it seems to me that improvements were muted due to
Obama's rhetoric against business.  Business in general is fairly
conservative (risk adverse) and feeling attacked by Obama, was
even more conservative in its actions.  The perception is that
with Donald Trump, business has a friend in the White House,
or at least not a radical that has an axe to grind.  Therefore, there
has been a bit of an economic upswing, at least public perceptionwise.
whether it is sustainable, or a bubble remains to be seen.  



Replies:
Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 16 Mar 2017 at 23:21
Amid all of Trumps erratic behaviour, it seems that the American economy has taken an upturn.

Who would have believed it?


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 13:41
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Amid all of Trumps erratic behaviour, it seems that the American economy has taken an upturn.

Who would have believed it?

Are you kidding?Cool 
Only teen actresses would rather have Hillary than a strong economy. Who would have believed it? 
Only the people who voted for him. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 14:06
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

This thread is for discussing President Trump and his domestic affect.
I like including the word "arena" because Trump is definitely
scrappy and belligerent.  I don't think Trump will ever
entirely be "domesticated," he is not a very "civil" person.
But by domestic, I mean events that happen within
the United States, its political system, and to a lesser
extent its cultural influence.  I would include the
"economic" realm in this category for now.

President Trump seems to have been accompanied by an upturn 
in the market, to me this is not surprising because President
Obama berated Wall Street, businesses and investors using
the bully pulpit of the Presidency.  Statistics show that the
economy improved after the recession during President Obama's 
 term, but it seems to me that improvements were muted due to
Obama's rhetoric against business.  Business in general is fairly
conservative (risk adverse) and feeling attacked by Obama, was
even more conservative in its actions.  The perception is that
with Donald Trump, business has a friend in the White House,
or at least not a radical that has an axe to grind.  Therefore, there
has been a bit of an economic upswing, at least public perceptionwise.
whether it is sustainable, or a bubble remains to be seen.  

You have said Trump doesn't have a mandate because Hillary won the popular vote. 

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442227/donald-trump-gop-congress-2016-election-mandates" rel="nofollow - http://www.nationalreview.com/article/442227/donald-trump-gop-congress-2016-election-mandates
According to this National Review article there are three kinds of mandates;
1. Trump was legitimately elected and our election process is understood by both sides.
The fact that Trump did not win the national popular vote is irrelevant to his executive mandate — and not all that unusual in our system of government, either. Depending on how you count it, we’ve had either four or five prior presidents who did not win the national popular vote, and while that was a modest initial political liability for those presidents, their later success stood or fell on what they did with the office if they were able to win the Electoral College cleanly. 
JFK lost the popular vote.
2.A second kind of mandate is a voting-coalition mandate:
No other president would be expected to do something different from the very things that got him elected!
3.A legislative mandate 
Trump pushes a Republican agenda on jobs and infrastructure, which congressional democrats are going to oppose him?





-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 17 Mar 2017 at 17:33
Fair comment Vanuatu.

IF Trump brings about beneficial change to the USA, good. But there needs, as I see it, to be more depth to his policies. He needs to display leadership which, IMHO, he hasn't to date.

And having a senior member of his administration consistently "explaining" what the President really meant is certainly not a good look.



-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2017 at 00:38
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Fair comment Vanuatu.

IF Trump brings about beneficial change to the USA, good. But there needs, as I see it, to be more depth to his policies. He needs to display leadership which, IMHO, he hasn't to date.

And having a senior member of his administration consistently "explaining" what the President really meant is certainly not a good look.


toymotor, there is depth to his policies. he smart enough to find smart people. If you select one policy in particular we can dissect it and bask in the depth. And presidents always have press secretaries explaining things. You know that, Spicer is just another spin guy. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 18 Mar 2017 at 06:58
Vanuatu I think I'll bow out of this conversation before I get a bleeding nose, or a black eye.

IMHO, Trumps public persona is that of a loud mouthed bully, who blames everyone else for things that go wrong.

I know you won't agree, but that's your prerogative.




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 01:01
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu I think I'll bow out of this conversation before I get a bleeding nose, or a black eye.

IMHO, Trumps public persona is that of a loud mouthed bully, who blames everyone else for things that go wrong.

I know you won't agree, but that's your prerogative.



He very well may be. That does not mean he won't be a better president than Obama. I'll have my opinions and you will have yours but Trump is much more like an 'average' American than you may be willing to accept.


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 04:08
Quote
 I'll have my opinions and you will have yours but Trump is much more like an 'average' 
American than you may be willing to accept.

Gee, I hope he doesn't personify the average American. I have an American cousin, whom I consider
 to be an average Joe, and he's nothing like Trump.



-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 06:52
Yep, another good look as Trump refuses to shake hands with Angela Merkel during a White House photo op. She even asked hms to shake hands at one stage, but he sat there with the usual sulky look on his face.

I got into an argument about him recently, someone said that Trump isn't a presidents arse, I argued that he is.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 12:41
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+merkel+handshake&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUiLu7y-LSAhVD64MKHcn4DPYQ_AUICSgD&biw=414&bih=628&dpr=3#imgrc=WqzPOsnkX7cCxM:


https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+merkel+handshake&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUiLu7y-LSAhVD64MKHcn4DPYQ_AUICSgD&biw=414&bih=628&dpr=3#imgrc=qlSG7NEo8ZMNAM:

https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+merkel+handshake&client=safari&hl=en-us&prmd=nvi&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUiLu7y-LSAhVD64MKHcn4DPYQ_AUICSgD&biw=414&bih=628&dpr=3#imgrc=_Pb77cIYgDRENM:

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http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow - adult photo sharing


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 14:16
es_bih

Unfortunately, your post was received as lines of arkward code. Code you please send again.


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 14:23
es_bih

I reject your assessment.

Trump, by his behaviour, doesn't inspire much confidence in his ability to lead the western worlds greatest country.

Never have I witnessed such crap coming from the mouth of an American preident, and continually having his press aide explain what he really means, is further indication of the mess that he's creating amongst his own administration.

I'm not looking for unrealistic behaviour and/or outcomes, just normalcy in the American leadership.

Have a go at me all you like, BUT, prove me wrong!

And if you wish to engage me in a name calling competition, forget it.You're not worth the effort.




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 16:21
They're links to several hand shakes they had during that meeting. If your media sources said they did not shake hands they're "fake news."

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http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow - adult photo sharing


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 16:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

es_bih

I reject your assessment.

Trump, by his behaviour, doesn't inspire much confidence in his ability to lead the western worlds greatest country.

Never have I witnessed such crap coming from the mouth of an American preident, and continually having his press aide explain what he really means, is further indication of the mess that he's creating amongst his own administration.

I'm not looking for unrealistic behaviour and/or outcomes, just normalcy in the American leadership.

Have a go at me all you like, BUT, prove me wrong!

And if you wish to engage me in a name calling competition, forget it.You're not worth the effort.


I never witnessed more disturbing crap from an elected official than from Obama's regime. Passing healthcare because they could count on the stupidity of the american voter! That's Gruber Obama's boy.  
One man's normalcy is another's insanity. Obama was normal? What does that mean? He fired all of the Bush appointees. Most presidents do want their own people somehow you believe this to be an aberration. When Trump said the election would be hacked the media said he's insane, then when Hillary lost it was the Russians hacking! 

You make claims about Obama being the "last of the great men" "great diplomat" none of which you can substantiate. 
You prove that Obama's press secretary didn't stand there day after day explaining Obama's crap.
Obama was overturned by the Federal Court more times than any other president, and he is a constitutional lawyer. I don't know your cousin but yea, I've never known an average person like Obama the elitist Manchurian candidate, now living with his mentor Valerie Jarret.

Trump, however could sit next to someone at a ball game, talk sports and be a "normal" guy. For all his money and notoriety he still does connect with working class people. 

I would never relate to a man who says things like this;

#1. "We Do Not Consider Ourselves A Christian Nation" -  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIVd7YT0oWA" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#2. “Whatever we once were, we are no longer a Christian nation” -  http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2009/04/obamas_christian_nation_1.html" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#3. “The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam” -  http://www.faithstreet.com/onfaith/2012/09/26/obama-the-future-must-not-belong-to-those-who-slander-the-prophet-of-islam/11183" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#4. “The sweetest sound I know is the Muslim call to prayer” -  http://www.raptureready.com/featured/duck/dd74.html" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#5. “I also know that Islam has always been a part of America’s story.” -  https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#6. “I made clear that America is not – and never will be – at war with Islam.” -  https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#7. “Islam has always been part of America” -  http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/114115-obama-to-host-ramadan-meal" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#8. “Islam has a proud tradition of tolerance.” -  https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#9. “As a student of history, I also know civilization’s debt to Islam.” -  https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#10. “Throughout history, Islam has demonstrated through words and deeds the possibilities of religious tolerance and racial equality.” -  http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/07/obamas-nasa-muslim-outreach-echoes-his-nutty-cairo-speech/" rel="nofollow - [Source]
#11. “we will encourage more Americans to study in Muslim communities” -  https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/remarks-president-cairo-university-6-04-09" rel="nofollow - [Source]

No love lost for religion on my part but this country -as we know it- was founded by christians not jihadis.



-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 21:42
President Trump failed to close the deal for Republican health care, he blames the democrats, but in reality, the Republicans were split on what they wanted (and didn't want), with little overall conception of what they were positively trying for.  The "freedom caucus" was the big hold outs, calling the plan Obamacare lite, but more moderate republican senators in left leaning districts also did not necessarily want to go along with it either.  Donald 'predicts' that the affordable healthcare act will implode by the end of the year, and that the democrats will come crawling back at that time (or something like that).

I am conservative in that I hate change, and I hate changing to Obama care, where I initially lost my insurance and my doctor, but darn it, I hate the idea of changing again.  I am not convinced that they have built a better "mousetrap."


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2017 at 00:31
Now, what we just witnessed with this healthcare- replace- Obamacare mess was orchestrated entirely.
Trump has to save face with voters and so do democrats, lets make a deal. Trump 'tried' he didn't look too disappointed. 

Republicans 'tried' but now they are sooo enthusiastic about the next bill. 
Democrats were appalled but now they have great ideas to bring to the table.


So everyone wins, the politicians can still put their show on for the respective base support and most importantly that piece of crap legislation (never meant to pass) is history. I don't think most of us care what it's called, so it will be a new and improved version of Obamacare. No one cares what it's called except the pundits.


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 02:28
If they (the Republicans) had gotten this new healthcare bill, then they would have been in a better place for tax reform.  So no, not everyone wins, this is defeat for the Whitehouse, and for House majority leader Ryan and the mainstream Republicans.  The funny thing is that Bannon was trying to whip up support, but he was the one who, when he was at Brightbart news, was whipping up the Freedom caucus into a frenzy versus the Republican 'establishment.'  He was part of what lead to House majority leader, Bohner's decision to bow out.

It was pretty clear that the Republicans did not have a concrete idea of what they were planning to achieve.  President Trump seems to think that Obamacare will self-destruct (which it might), and that the democrats will come crawling to him afterwards, (not very likely).


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2017 at 13:31
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

If they (the Republicans) had gotten this new healthcare bill, then they would have been in a better place for tax reform.  So no, not everyone wins, this is defeat for the Whitehouse, and for House majority leader Ryan and the mainstream Republicans.

Right franciscosan, democrats were going to hand over tax reform if the republicans overturned O -care. In what dimension? R's would have been steered into failure on the tax reform issue and anything else if O-Care was scratched. Trump said all along and so has (D) Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who is working on reforming ACA;
 Zeke Emanuel, who worked as one of President Obama’s health care advisers, says the administration tilted the playing field too far in favor of the sick and elderly, making it difficult for young people to sign up. He says the administration should have let insurers charge older people more, perhaps four times as much as the youngest consumers.

“We made the wrong trade-off,” he says. “The consequence is costs for old people are higher because we don’t have enough young people in the pool.”

Do you want to pay for coverage that includes lactation devices? I don't want to buy coverage for prostate exams! Tax reform for business is what Trump is after but you are staring at the shiny thing in the corner, enlightened One. Rolling eyes *it's a given that the tax payer won't be winning*
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

 The funny thing is that Bannon was trying to whip up support, but he was the one who, when he was at Brightbart news, was whipping up the Freedom caucus into a frenzy versus the Republican 'establishment.'  He was part of what lead to House majority leader, Bohner's decision to bow out.
Yes, isn't that a funny thing about Bannon? It is the appearance of keeping the campaign promise Trump made to get elected. The Freedom Caucus is the non liberal reason for Trump to change anything about his agenda and still appear to be 'with the people.'  
Can't comment on John "cry me a river" Bohner, just know I'm glad I don't have to watch him weeping on tv anymore.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

It was pretty clear that the Republicans did not have a concrete idea of what they were planning to achieve.  President Trump seems to think that Obamacare will self-destruct (which it might), and that the democrats will come crawling to him afterwards, (not very likely).
Six years and House Speaker Paul Ryan has an inadequate proposal that would have been even worse than O-Care.
Doesn't that sound like BS?
The premium hikes scheduled for 2017 will come to pass. Democrats won't be seen to crawl but they will deal with Trump on tax reform bc it's we the people who will pay for their conspiracies. Congress already has a great healthcare plan.


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 00:59
You miss, misunderstand me:P  Tax reform would have been easier with the proposed healthcare since spending would be less, if spending is less, then there is more room to maneuver for cutting taxes.  That does not mean that democrats would be more cooperative.  
Of course, Congressional healthcare is good, they have good representation.
Yes, the idea in the "Affordable Care Act" was that the young and healthy would pay for the old and sick.  And yes, it is a matter of robbing Peter to pay Paul.  If you are healthy for now, why pay now when you can wait until you develop a pre-existing condition, which cannot be excluded?  Of course you have to pay a "tax" to do so, but for many it is worth it.  I am not saying that the "Affordable Care Act" works that well, I just don't have much confidence that anything better is around the corner, no matter what bunkus that that "businessman" in the Whitehouse is trying to sell.  Mr Trump is selling the hot fudge Sundae diet, you eat two Sundaes everyday, and you loose 5 pounds per week.  It is a great pipe dream.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 28 Mar 2017 at 14:17
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

You miss, misunderstand me:P  Tax reform would have been easier with the proposed healthcare since spending would be less, if spending is less, then there is more room to maneuver for cutting taxes.  That does not mean that democrats would be more cooperative.
I heard a couple of comments like that from D's & R's and I hope they get off Opioids before it ruins their lives. Extra money floating around in Washington, Dorothy?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Of course, Congressional healthcare is good, they have good representation.
Yes, the idea in the "Affordable Care Act" was that the young and healthy would pay for the old and sick.  And yes, it is a matter of robbing Peter to pay Paul.  If you are healthy for now, why pay now when you can wait until you develop a pre-existing condition, which cannot be excluded?  Of course you have to pay a "tax" to do so, but for many it is worth it.  I am not saying that the "Affordable Care Act" works that well, I just don't have much confidence that anything better is around the corner, no matter what bunkus that that "businessman" in the Whitehouse is trying to sell.  Mr Trump is selling the hot fudge Sundae diet, you eat two Sundaes everyday, and you loose 5 pounds per week.  It is a great pipe dream.


 

I would throw in with business minded people on healthcare before I'd trust any politician. In fact leave the health care to doctors and let insurance companies compete for healthcare coverage. 

I realize you are not promoting the current system. My point is that Trump has democrat Zeke Emanuel on board for a reason and it's not so that he can make Obama care go away. Emanuel is like a prisoner exchange, he is insurance that Obama will always get credit for the ACA even though it's going to be gutted and restructured.

Trump isn't selling hot fudge(?) he knows it's not an easy fix and has said as much. Who knows? Someone may even read the reformed version of the ACA before it's passed.




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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 11:01
Quote  

“From http://www.smh.com.au/world/efforts-of-the-trump-administration-to-thwart-russia-investigation-revealed-20170328-gv8nbh.html

Washington: Late on Monday, Donald Trump was stabbing at his keyboard,  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/846536212362018816" rel="nofollow - - tweeting : "Trump Russia story is a hoax."

But on Tuesday, his administration was revealed to be going to extraordinary lengths to thwart the airing of "explosive" evidence before one of several congressional committees investigating charges that the Trump campaign was complicit in Russia's meddling in last year's election.

The disclosure came amid partisan acrimony over accusations that House Intelligence Committee chairman and  http://www.smh.com.au/world/donald-trumprussia-devin-nunes-makes-it-hard-to-claim-gop-can-run-fair-probe-20170327-gv7r4o.html" rel="nofollow -  is acting as a human shield, inappropriately sharing classified evidence with the White House - and thereby jeopardising his committee's investigation.

A sheaf of legal letters acquired by  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-block-sally-yates-from-testifying-to-congress-on-russia/2017/03/28/82b73e18-13b4-11e7-9e4f-09aa75d3ec57_story.html" rel="nofollow - - - t reveals  the Justice Department has invoked "presidential communications privilege" in a bid to prevent testimony by Sally Yates, an Obama appointee who Trump sacked as acting attorney-general in January.


Yates and former CIA director John Brennan were to appear before the committee on Tuesday - a hearing that Nunes unilaterally cancelled after it became known that Yates and Brennan were likely to challenge White House assertions on events that led to the sacking of Trump national security adviser Mike Flynn, after he was revealed to have lied about the substance of his communications with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak.

Democrats on the committee suspect that, in cancelling the scheduled hearing, Nunes acted at the behest of the White House - to head off the embarrassing implications of invoking executive privilege.

"[Yates] sought permission to testify from the White House. Whether the White House's desire … to keep her from providing the full truth on what happened contributed to the decision to cancel today's hearing, we do not know," said Adam Schiff who serves as the intelligence committee's ranking Democrat. "We would urge that the open hearing be rescheduled without delay and that Ms Yates be permitted to testify freely and openly."

Yates played a pivotal role in Flynn's demise. As acting attorney-general, it fell to her in January to advise the White House that routine surveillance of the ambassador's communications had revealed that Flynn had been lying - and thereby had left himself open to blackmail by Moscow.


Having denied any implication in these reports, if the above is accurate, one must ask, "WHY?" 


This President seems to be lurching from one mess to another.


For the full  report-see link above. 



 



-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 29 Mar 2017 at 14:58
Weird stuff, Nunes is acting crazy. I don't know if the executive privilege applies, if it does then the White House should have just invoked executive privilege. The House Intelligence Committee is a mess for reason yet to be revealed.

-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 00:03
I think that executive privilege applies only to the president, no?  A lot of smoke, one has wonder if there is a fire smoldering somewhere.  If Donald Trump was a used car salesman, would you buy a car from that man?


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 00:50
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I think that executive privilege applies only to the president, no?  A lot of smoke, one has wonder if there is a fire smoldering somewhere.  If Donald Trump was a used car salesman, would you buy a car from that man?

Not I.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 30 Mar 2017 at 13:29
I've already posted that I don't like Donald Trump or the persona he projects, but I'll try a to be as fair as I can here.

In short, the Trump administration could be described by Paul Hogan as "smelling like a dead dingos donger." In other words, it stinks.

Here we have a novice President who, despite all predictions, has risen to the most powerful position in the western world, having not had a single days political experience. Under these conditions, one would expect him to have surrounded himself with politically savvy people to guide him in the political processes and in determining policies. But, no. Of the normal tens, if not hundreds of positions that need to be filled in his administration, only a handful have been appointed, among them his daughter and son-in-law, both appointed as White House staffers, and who aren't subject to the normally rigorous processes in making these appointments. Neither have a political background.

Rather than act as a President of The United States of America, he seems to think that he has only to speak or issue an Executive Order for things to happen. But that's not the way it is, and he's being shown that now on a fairly frequent basis. His continued use of Twitter to make public announcements, or to criticise opponents smack of a childish form of retribution to the media which does not overtly support him.

His plan to prevent immigration from seven different countries is being resisted through the Supreme Court. His major platform issue of dismantling Obama Care was rejected by his own party. And the building of the southern border wall between Mexico and the USA look as though it may be funded by welfare cuts, at the same time as he's pushing for a fairly major increase in Defence spending.

Appointments to the many and very senior positions in his administration will take months, and during this time he's expected to lurch from one disaster to another.

Trumps outright lies and alternative truths have alienated him from many international politicians who would have been expected to lend him any assistance they could.

His total lack of knowledge of political and international diplomacy is being shown up by such things as his wanting to bill Germany for the US Nato commitment.

Finally, things that he doesn't want to become public knowledge, or have already become public knowledge, to his embarassment, are being hidden by labelling them Executive Priviledge.

Will he see out his first term?


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 03:56
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I think that executive privilege applies only to the president, no?  A lot of smoke, one has wonder if there is a fire smoldering somewhere.  If Donald Trump was a used car salesman, would you buy a car from that man?

Yates and her lawyer are saying that the Trump administration warned her that her testimony could not include the investigation of Gen Flynn because it took place while she was part of his admin (they deny). 

Yates told the admin that if they didn't hear otherwise they planned to testify to things that would contradict the official WH version of events but didn't get specific. 

Next the House Intel comm cancels the hearing. So, I'm saying why didn't Trump just shut her down? he could have easily.  


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 31 Mar 2017 at 22:30
Who is Paul Hogan?  Hulk Hogan's younger cousin?
who is Yates?  Does she have a title or even a first name?

who is Kevin Bacon, an Australian or an American?
It is only after the fact that we know to refer to George W Bush, and George H.W. Bush.


Is the official WH version of events, the official World Historia version of events?

There is a reason why I suggest titles, use of first names and last names, and the use of descriptions, not only is it more respectful, it is more specific, and as time goes on an this thread gets old, people referring back to it are not going to know the players as well as we do.  And "we" don't necessarily know the players that well when we get into foreign individuals, or minor figures in our own government.

One might also want to make a distinction between Donald Trump, the man, the "Donald" as a populist figure, and President Trump the office holder, or Donald Trump the (nepotistic) father and husband.  Or, "Trump" the former presidential candidate.  I also suggest using full titles, not Pres. or Gen. or POTUS.  POTUS sounds like the name of a thrash metal band.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01 Apr 2017 at 02:15
franciscosan

Quote Who is Paul Hogan?  Hulk Hogan's younger cousin?

Peasant! Paul is a well known Australian comedy actor who has lived and worked in the USA for some years. His special comedic skills normally relate to Australian culture (?).


Quote  
One might also want to make a distinction between Donald Trump, the man, the "Donald" as a populist figure, and President Trump the office holder, or Donald Trump the (nepotistic) father and husband.  Or, "Trump" the former presidential candidate.  I also suggest using full titles, not Pres. or Gen. or POTUS.  POTUS sounds like the name of a thrash metal band.

Sounds a trifle sycophantic to me.

As I've already written, Australians lack respect, in the main, for pretentious, attention seeking, maglomaniacal talking heads. Hence, Trump=POTUS.




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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 02 Apr 2017 at 01:00
I never was a fig plucker or a fig plucker's son,
but I will pluck them figs 'til the fig plucker comes.
(look up the origin of sycophant)

I heard that Trump sold a NY property to a Chinese woman for 16 million
last year it was listed at 7 million.
And a Russian oligarch bought from Trump a property in Florida at 130%
the asking price.
It's good to be the King!


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2017 at 04:16
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Who is Paul Hogan?  Hulk Hogan's younger cousin?
who is Yates?  Does she have a title or even a first name?

who is Kevin Bacon, an Australian or an American?
It is only after the fact that we know to refer to George W Bush, and George H.W. Bush.


Is the official WH version of events, the official World Historia version of events?

There is a reason why I suggest titles, use of first names and last names, and the use of descriptions, not only is it more respectful, it is more specific, and as time goes on an this thread gets old, people referring back to it are not going to know the players as well as we do.  And "we" don't necessarily know the players that well when we get into foreign individuals, or minor figures in our own government.

One might also want to make a distinction between Donald Trump, the man, the "Donald" as a populist figure, and President Trump the office holder, or Donald Trump the (nepotistic) father and husband.  Or, "Trump" the former presidential candidate.  I also suggest using full titles, not Pres. or Gen. or POTUS.  POTUS sounds like the name of a thrash metal band.

franciscosan

Was it, or was it not you who referred to King Alexander of Macedonia as plain Alexander in another thread?

Wasn't this a trifle disrespectful old chap?

Should not King Alexander be referred to as such, so as not to confuse him with Alexander Smith from down the street?

Can't have it both ways, either a person is entitled to the respect of his position or he's not.
(And for the legal definition of terms used in this post, he means she and she means he.)




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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2017 at 06:40
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Fair comment Vanuatu.

IF Trump brings about beneficial change to the USA, good. But there needs, as I see it, to be more depth to his policies. He needs to display leadership which, IMHO, he hasn't to date.

And having a senior member of his administration consistently "explaining" what the President really meant is certainly not a good look.

Hi  toyomotor. 
You seem to understand our politics. But explaining is a big part of what the Cabinet does. The president isn't an expert in every field. He lays out a plan and his team executes. If Trump needs his team to clarify,(rather have an ill informed geezer?),  explaining is perfectly acceptable

Just like it was perfectly acceptable for liberals to laugh while former presidential candidate Mitt Romney described Russia as a geopolitical threat. 
Of course Mitt's opponent- Obama, would be equally at ease with the Russians. While dining with Medvedev as 35 Russian spies, living, educated and working in America were rounded up. Obama could see this was to be expected and no threat to the Russia 'reset' (which Hillary misspelled).


http://www.infowars.com/adam-schiff-admits-he-has-no-definitive-proof-of-trump-russia-collusion/" rel="nofollow - http://www.infowars.com/adam-schiff-admits-he-has-no-definitive-proof-of-trump-russia-collusion/

House Intelligence Committee ranking Democrat Adam Schiff admitted Sunday on CNN that they’ve still yet to find any “definitive” proof of Trump’s campaign colluding with Russians.  

“I don’t think we can say anything definitively at this point,” Schiff told Jake Tapper. “We are still at the very early stages of the investigation.”

As Pat Buchanan said earlier this week,  http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=56514" rel="nofollow - they’ve been investigating this garbage for eight months .

Schiff continued: “The only thing I can say is that it would be irresponsible for us not to get to the bottom of this. We really need to find out exactly what the Russians did. Because one of the most important conclusions that the intelligence community reached is that they are going to do this again to the United States. They are doing it already in Europe. So we can say conclusively this is something that needs to be thoroughly investigated but it’s way premature to be reaching conclusions.”




-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 04 Apr 2017 at 09:56
Vanuatu wrote
Quote But explaining is a big part of what the Cabinet does. The president isn't an expert in every field. He lays out a plan and his team executes. If Trump needs his team to clarify,(rather have an ill informed geezer?),  explaining is perfectly acceptable

Dear lady, I agree. But wouldn't it be better if the Secretary in charge of the relevant department explained the policies on behalf of the President, rather than a Press Secretary who by now is severely lacking credibility.

If there is a need for the Press Secretary to continually explain what the President really means, perhaps the President should keep his mouth shut until such times as he has obtained the appropriate advice and is in a position to make authoratative comments.

So far he's been over enthusiastic with the quantity of announcements, not the quality.


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2017 at 04:04
Press secretaries have a very high burn out rate. Unless you are Josh Earnest, Obama's 2nd and last press secretary. here is Earnest talking about how the media is treating Trump. I assume you don't hate Earnest...yet. 

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/09/former-obama-spokesman-josh-earnest-harshly-criticizes-the-medias-thin-skinned-response-to-trump/" rel="nofollow - http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/09/former-obama-spokesman-josh-earnest-harshly-criticizes-the-medias-thin-skinned-response-to-trump/

Josh Earnest, who served as former President Barack Obama’s press secretary from 2014 to 2017, says the media is too sensitive and easily flustered by President Donald Trump.

Speaking during a Harvard University forum titled, “Press & the Presidency,” earlier this week, Earnest accused the media of being “remarkably thin-skinned” and said reporters too often make the story about themselves.

“Journalism, for an institution that is focused on critiquing people in power, is remarkably thin-skinned,” he said,  https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/names/2017/03/07/former-obama-press-secretary-talks-trump-and-media-harvard/sMh9wZXM80RWuth8D8dN2N/story.html" rel="nofollow - according to The Boston Globe . “And we’ve seen President Trump cynically use the tendency of the press to defend itself, and to bristle at criticism, to try to distract from the tough questions that the media is asking him.” 

(and it works bc they are having collective liberal meltdown teehee)

Since his inauguration, Trump has frequently antagonized the Washington press corps. Last month, Trump  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/832708293516632065?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" rel="nofollow - tweeted  that the “fake news media” is the “enemy of the American people.” According to  https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2436" rel="nofollow - a new Quinnipiac University poll , 39 percent of all voters and 81 percent of Republican voters believe “certain news organizations are the enemy of the American people.” 

(yea we do Josh, I like you better now that I don't see you everyday)

According to a recent survey,  http://www.theblaze.com/news/2017/03/08/nearly-half-of-voters-believe-reporters-make-up-anonymous-sources/" rel="nofollow - 44 percent of American voters  believe journalists “make up” anonymous sources in their reporting.

Earnest, however, said it would be incorrect to suggest Trump hates the media. Instead, the former White House staffer suggested, the relationship is just complicated.

“I don’t think President Trump has a grand ambition to erase the First Amendment from the copy of the Constitution in the National Archives,” Earnest said. “I just think he often finds the First Amendment to be really, really inconvenient.”

“He’d rather pretend it doesn’t exist or that it’s not that important or that it’s somehow malleable,” he said.

The reality, Earnest argued, is that both the president and the media need one another.

“It’s undeniable that these political conversations are more present in our day-to-day lives, for better or worse,” he said. “Sometimes it’s a source of conflict and friction in our lives, but a more engaged citizenry can only be good for the country.”

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-the-new-york-times-lying-about-trump-19290?page=3" rel="nofollow - http://nationalinterest.org/feature/why-the-new-york-times-lying-about-trump-19290?page=3

When does a politician’s unsubstantiated statement merit being labeled a “lie”? The line between political misrepresentation and lying is not always a bright one. When, in 1988, Bob Dole accused George H. W. Bush of “lying about his record” (after taking a pounding from Bush’s attack ads in New Hampshire), the remark was taken as evidence of Dole’s hot temper, not Bush’s lack of veracity. When an official gives deliberately false or misleading testimony under oath before Congress, it is commonly deemed more serious, and if discovered has serious legal consequences. If the question is generally murky, one thing is clear: a casual and unsubstantiated political boast gets turned from a “so what” into a “lie” when the paper publishing it has fully internalized its role as part of the opposition.

Who's telling the truth? We need a new definition





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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2017 at 10:21
Quote “I don’t think President Trump has a grand ambition to erase the First Amendment from the copy of the Constitution in the National Archives,” Earnest said. “I just think he often finds the First Amendment to be really, really inconvenient.”

“He’d rather pretend it doesn’t exist or that it’s not that important or that it’s somehow malleable,” he said.

Well, he certainly got that right.

Truth can often be terribly inconvenient.

For your amusement and general edification, I give you a quote from Sir Humphrey Appleby,"Sometimes one is forced to consider the possibility that affairs are being conducted in a manner which, all things being considered and making all possible allowances is, not to put too fine a point on it, perhaps not entirely straightforward."

You know who Sir Humphrey is, don't you?

His quote translates into plain English as-he is lying.



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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 00:02
H L Mencken said (something like):  The proper relation between the press and the Presidency is like that of a dog and a lamp post.

Earnest is not speaking as a liberal but as a former press secretary.  Of course, there is going to be an adversarial relationship between the press and the presidency, and that just as true in a liberal administration as it is in a 'conservative' administration.  The question should not be whether the press or individual organizations or reporters have agenda, the question is whether they can get out information, information by which the public can judge how well the president is doing his job.  Presidents don't necessarily like information getting out by which the public can judge them, but they tolerate it,  except for Donald Trump and President Nixon.  We all know about Nixon's flaws and downfall.  Should we entirely shut out the media from information on Mr. Trump so that we have no basis to judge?  Or maybe we should just allow favorable media outlets that the Donald likes.  Does the Emperor have no clothes, and who is going to tell him?

Fareed Zakariah on his show GPS said that for 20 years, Trump's ideas on health care were consistent and good (single payer), but lately he has been letting ideology dictate what he asserts, Zakariah said he should get back to his old position.  If you are buying a television, you can research the television, buy different one, or go to a different store, both seller and the buyer are relatively even in knowledge.  With healthcare there is an unevenness in the knowledge between seller and buyer, the buyer really isn't in a good position to judge whether a procedure is needed or not, and the very act of getting a second opinion is going to cost.  Furthermore, doctors will order procedures to cover their own backsides, given the cost of malpractice suits.  Therefore, the marketplace does not work well for healthcare.  Donald Trump said in the past (something like), 'I am a conservative in most areas, but where it comes to healthcare I am a liberal.'  Of course, he has gotten away from this in his candidacy and presidency, but Zakariah thinks he should get back to it. 


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 01:58
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

H L Mencken said (something like):  The proper relation between the press and the Presidency is like that of a dog and a lamp post.

Earnest is not speaking as a liberal but as a former press secretary.  Of course, there is going to be an adversarial relationship between the press and the presidency, and that just as true in a liberal administration as it is in a 'conservative' administration.  The question should not be whether the press or individual organizations or reporters have agenda, the question is whether they can get out information, information by which the public can judge how well the president is doing his job.  Presidents don't necessarily like information getting out by which the public can judge them, but they tolerate it,  except for Donald Trump and President Nixon.

Who ever had a choice about tolerating the press? You mention Nixon and Trump bc you think they are so unpopular that anything can be said of them. The next and latest accusation is laid on top of the last layer, proof of what all democrats have been shilling to demonstrate with maniacal persistence how Trump contributes to their incontinence.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

We all know about Nixon's flaws and downfall.  Should we entirely shut out the media from information on Mr. Trump so that we have no basis to judge?  Or maybe we should just allow favorable media outlets that the Donald likes.  Does the Emperor have no clothes, and who is going to tell him?
Just as 'you all' know of the purity of Hilliary? Please name all the media outlets favorable to Trump. Just keep complaining while life actually improves for working people maybe some will trickle up to the genius/scholars.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Fareed Zakariah on his show GPS said that for 20 years, Trump's ideas on health care were consistent and good (single payer), but lately he has been letting ideology dictate what he asserts, Zakariah said he should get back to his old position.  If you are buying a television, you can research the television, buy different one, or go to a different store, both seller and the buyer are relatively even in knowledge.  With healthcare there is an unevenness in the knowledge between seller and buyer, the buyer really isn't in a good position to judge whether a procedure is needed or not, and the very act of getting a second opinion is going to cost.  Furthermore, doctors will order procedures to cover their own backsides, given the cost of malpractice suits.  Therefore, the marketplace does not work well for healthcare.  Donald Trump said in the past (something like), 'I am a conservative in most areas, but where it comes to healthcare I am a liberal.'  Of course, he has gotten away from this in his candidacy and presidency, but Zakariah thinks he should get back to it. 
Agree. Public health is in the best interest of the country. I want the same health benefits as the congress and I don't want congress to have better choices than veterans. 


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2017 at 21:33
No, I mention President Nixon and President Trump because they were the most vocal about their opposition to, and least tolerant of the press, or so it seems so far for Trump (the game isn't over yet).
But that doesn't mean that Obama or Clinton or Carter loved the press.  A former drinking buddy friend of mine who was in Vietnam pointed out that anyone who believes in the press being pro-liberal should remember how the news everyday started with "America held hostage, day 146" during the Carter administration.  The press is for itself primarily, although it looks on people on the left as ordinary people, (including communist and socialist) whereas people on the right are these strange creatures called conservatives or the radical right.

I would not really consider Donald Trump to be a conservative, anyone he hung out at Studio 54 a lot in the '70s is not really a conservative.  He may be going the same direction that the conservatives are going for now, but his conservatism like everything else about him, is quite shallow.

I don't know about the "purity of Hillary," she was definitely for a lot of people, the "lesser evil" candidate, but the lesser evil is still evil. 

If I told you 'the moon is made out of green cheese,' is that a lie?  No, because I don't expect you to believe me, I don't expect you to be fooled.  And anyone who is fooled is a big fool for believing a story that shouldn't fool anyone over age 6.  A lot of Trump's campaign rhetoric was as empty as "yes, we can." of Candidate Obama, except Obama's was more obviously empty.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 13 May 2017 at 20:47
Some people in life are, pardon the expression, sh*t magnets.  Donald Trump is _not_ a sh*t magnet, Donald Trump is a reverse sh*t magnet, Donald Trump is the proverbial fan that spatters sh*t on everyone else.  It is not that he stays clean, in fact it is matter of two negatives repelling each other.  One negative is the sh*t, and the other negative is Donald Trump.  Some people believe he has the Midas touch, and what he touches, like his escalator, turns to gold.  But, the truth of the matter is that he owes his "success" to being too big to fail.  He borrowed so much money, that if he fell, he would threaten to take banks with him, and so they felt obligated to prop him up.  In a way, that is his life strategy, and his Presidential strategy, he promises to be a complete pain in the ass, (and he is a complete ass), that if he doesn't get his way, he threatens to ruin everything.  He is a reverse sh*t magnet, and everybody around him gets spattered.  FBI director Comey is just the latest casualty.  Of course, one can read a conspiracy into Comey and Flint, but I am not sure it is that organized.  I am also not saying that the people don't deserve their downfall, that doesn't matter with a sh*t magnet, or a reverse sh*t magnet in this case.

Let me explain what I mean by a sh*t magnet.  In college, I knew a girl (but not in the Biblical sense), who a few years before, when she was 13, had a miscarriage.  Bad things happened to this girl, sometimes it was her fault, and sometimes not.  She had a miscarriage because she slept with her best friend's boyfriend, got pregnant, and her best friend beat her up, causing the miscarriage.  That was her fault.  Some people had Cary Grant karma, and some people have Charlie Brown karma.  (Someone once said to Cary Grant that they wanted to be Cary Grant, Cary Grant replied, "you want to be Cary Grant, [heck,] I want to be Cary Grant."  Karmically, even Cary Grant didn't have Cary Grant karma.  But, in any case, that definitely was her fault.  One thing that wasn't her fault, is she was walking down the street one day, and walked into a poisonous chlorine gas cloud, that had escaped from a nearby tank.  If it wasn't for bad luck, she would have had no luck at all.  That is what a sh*t magnet is.  It is not necessarily her fault, but bad things one way or other, happened to her.  Well, Trump is the reverse of that, bad things happen to people around him, "cosmically" I suspect it is not necessarily his fault, but if you are smart, you don't want to know him, and you definitely don't want a reverse sh*t to know you.  So all those "radical" right, fringe political appointees that Trump is making, I am not sure he is really doing them a favor.  But, I could be wrong, I have been wrong beforeWink.  This is just a theory for people to consider as the Trump presidency 'evolves.'


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 15 May 2017 at 12:13
While I was moving house last week, Trump took advantage of my absence from the forum and sacked the Director of the FBI.

We all know that the FBI is investigating possible links between Trump and his top advisors, including his son-in-law and Russia. It's just possible that Trump had no links at with Russia, but, if that is the case, his timing is abysmal.

What I may have written about Trump in the past, my suspicions and dislikes, I stand by.


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 17 May 2017 at 00:41
You may not like Trump, but surely you wouldn't refuse to sell him the rope he will hang himself with?
Wink

I think that there is a very remote possibility that something will go dreadfully right with the Trump presidency.  Now having said that, I point to the scene in the comedy Dumb and Dumber, where the dunce is sitting next to the blonde in the pickup, and he asks her, 
"Do I have chance?"
at which she shakes her head and says,
"one in a million!"
at which point he responds,
"yes! I have a chance!"
But if there is a chance that the Trump presidency will work out, I don't think that "chance" is dependent upon everybody else rolling over and doing what Donald Trump's ego demands.  In fact, I think that the press and the branches and departments of government should hold Trump to high standards, hold his feet to the fire so to speak.  No matter how much he cries and has a tantrum, he can't just have his way.  And if scandals bring him down, well it would be worse for American democracy if those investigations were silenced, than if he was found guilty of, well, apparently take your pick.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 17 May 2017 at 02:06
Franciscosan

In my view, Mr. Trump epitomises the corruption of the system that I've discussed in another thread.

He's rich, and now very very powerful, and wants to rule as an autocrat. So far he's got away with it pretty much. But there's got to be a reckoning. There's too much smoke around his presidency, and, imo, where there's smoke, there's all too often fire.

It seems to me that he's paving his own road to impeachment.


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 17 May 2017 at 08:48
And now an American with a lot of experience with the US poilitical system over many years and several different administrations appears to corroberate my view above.
Quote "David Gergen who served Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan and Bill Clinton, was frank about Mr Trump’s dire situation during a CNN panel segment.

“After watching the Clinton impeachment, I thought I would never see another one. But I think we’re in impeachment territory for the first time,” Mr Gergen told host Anderson Cooper.

Asked to elaborate, Mr Gergen said the President had potentially strayed towards “obstruction of justice”, if the memo written by Mr Comey is accurate."

 from 

http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/memo-alleges-donald-trump-tried-to-shut-down-investigation/news-story/8c71f5431b4b3c0ca42d2adac8f12b2b" rel="nofollow - http://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/memo-alleges-donald-trump-tried-to-shut-down-investigation/news-story/8c71f5431b4b3c0ca42d2adac8f12b2b

Trump is stumbling from one mess to another, one lie to another, and he's being found out. David Gergen claims that, if the allegations above are correct, the President could be charged with Attempting to Pervert The Course of Justice. Impeachment, according to Gergen is not out of the question.





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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 18 May 2017 at 03:23
Caldrail
According to todays media reports, the President has claimed that he's being maligned by the media, basically appealing to his support base to come out and help him.

Almost every day recently, there's been a new and scandalous revelation, and this latest one about his alleged attempt to derail the General Flynn investigation is highly dangerous to his presidency, imho.

What's your take on his administration so far? 
I'd be interested in your comments.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 18 May 2017 at 09:44
I just read the following article and, in the context of what we've been discussing, found it interesting, perhaps other members would like to comment on it.

Quote https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/18/donald-trump-impeach-special-counsel-robert-mueller-fbi" rel="nofollow - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/18/donald-trump-impeach-special-counsel-robert-mueller-fbi

The “presumption of regularity”. It is a term largely unfamiliar to those outside legal or governmental circles but one that all Americans should now learn. Born of centuries-old common law, the presumption stands for the idea that government officials are presumed to act lawfully and in proper discharge their office – absent evidence to the contrary.

Every elected and appointed official enjoys this presumption. It is not easily squandered. It is meant to withstand errors in judgment and lapses in leadership. What it does not indulge is a clear pattern of abuse. Once the presumption collapses, the official is no longer fit for office.

This is the position that Donald Trump now finds himself in.  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/16/are-we-in-watergate-territory-yet" rel="nofollow - What took Richard Nixon more than five years  Trump has managed to accomplish in the narrow compass of four months. He has confirmed the worst fears of those who questioned his fitness for office. All the same, 10 days ago, his staunchest critics might have called Trump a national disaster but essentially unimpeachable. Now it seems like just a matter of time before he is removed from office. 

The announcement that the deputy attorney general, Rod Rosenstein,  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/17/trump-russia-investigation-special-counsel-robert-mueller-fbi" rel="nofollow - has appointed Robert Mueller III , the former FBI director, to serve as special counsel overseeing the Russian probe only strengthens the spreading sense that Trump is finished.

What makes this appointment fatal to the president is not Mueller’s well-earned reputation for doggedness. It is the fact that the president’s own self-destructive behavior has altered the scope of the probe. No longer will the possible collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign be the focus. 

Front and center will be whether the president has obstructed justice – first, by  https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/us/politics/james-comey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html?_r=0" rel="nofollow - entreating Comey to “let go”  of the Flynn investigation, and second, by firing Comey. Also at issue will be whether Trump’s  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/12/donald-trump-threatens-james-comey-fbi-tapes" rel="nofollow - tweet  – “James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” – represents an attempt to tamper with a witness in an ongoing investigation.

A White House with a presumption of regularity might be able to weather these allegations. A “regular” president might be able to convince the American people that Comey’s contemporaneous memo misstated or mischaracterized the president’s entreaty, which expressed a hope, not a command. Of course, even a regular president might not succeed. 

Republicans should ask themselves how many nanoseconds they would have let pass before drawing up articles of impeachment had Barack Obama asked Comey to “let go” of the investigation into Hillary Clinton’s use of a private email server.

But Trump has made his irregularity all too clear. When a president  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/07/trump-disempower-institutions-protect-truth" rel="nofollow - lies extravagantly  – about  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/26/donald-trump-voter-fraud-lie-political-gain-explanations" rel="nofollow - millions of illegal voters  and about  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/18/donald-trump-disregard-words-truth-finally-catching-up-with-him" rel="nofollow - phantom crimes committed against him by his predecessor in the Oval Office – he has squandered the right to be believed when it counts most. And when Mueller summons Trump to testify under oath, it is hard to imagine a president with such a reckless disregard for the truth steering clear of the pitfalls of perjury.

If all this weren’t damning enough, the allegations that Trump has committed impeachable offenses have come during a week that has placed his profoundly irregular behavior on gross display. His lapses in judgment accumulate in staggering fashion. We had barely absorbed the  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/11/donald-trump-meeting-russia-sergei-lavrov-photos" rel="nofollow - bizarre tableau of Russian photographers  ushered into the innermost sanctum of presidential power when comes word that the president had  https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/may/15/donald-trump-shared-classified-information-russia-white-house-report" rel="nofollow - divulged sensitive intelligence to an adversary  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/may/16/intel-russia-donald-trump-president-vladimir-putin" rel="nofollow - like a braggart  showing off a shiny new Ferrari.

And now comes the news that in appointing Flynn his national security adviser, Trump disregarded not only the warnings of Obama and the acting attorney general, Sally Yates, but the very fact that Flynn was already under criminal investigation.

Erratic behavior, extravagant narcissism wedded to a lack of discipline, and a pattern of arguably impeachable offenses: we can only hope that Mueller’s appointment sounds the death knell of this brief, dangerous experiment in presidential waywardness.

I admit to a certain facination with Donald Trump's presidency. It's the first time in my life that a US President has made the Australian media almost every day because of his alleged stuff ups. More over, the stuff ups have now reached the stage of blatant illegality, if the latest reports are true. Many authoratative sources in the USA are saying that Trump has crossed the boundary into impeachment territory, full of vipers. In fact, one politician has called for his impeachment, but it hasn't got very far, yet.

Everything about the Trump administration has smacked of arrogance and blatant bully-boy tactics. He's tried unsuccesfully to bully the Supreme Court, Hawaii has rebuffed his immigration moves, Mexico has told him to stuff his fence, some residents have migrated to Canada, he's insulted leaders of countries considered traditional allies while, initially, buddying up to Vlad Putin. There are ructions within his own political party and it's likely that he hasn't got a real political friend in the world, merely sychophants.





-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 20 May 2017 at 22:59
Washington could not tell a lie.
Nixon could not tell the truth.
and Trump could not tell the difference.

When the Nixon, Reagan and Clinton administrations went into scandal, it was in a second term, with a full appointment of staff, and for purposes of government, the White House could still run, while the President was distracted.  That is not true of the appointees so early into the Trump Whitehouse, the Trump Whitehouse does not have the full compliment of undersecretaries, etc, and so it will be quite hard to go on with business as usual if(when) the Trump Whitehouse begins to explode.  That is a problem for the United States, whether one is a republican, democrat or independent.  The business of government still needs to go on.  But who wants to join a sinking ship?  While it may be necessary to replace Donald Trump as President, nobody who recognizes what that means, should rejoice over it.  Of course, some probably do, like Vladimir Putin.  But what else would you expect of someone who bombed Moscow apartment buildings, and blamed it on Chechnyens? 


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 02:38
If in fact President Trump were to be impeached, it would be messy for the government and for the people in general.

Having a president so deeply engaged with the daily goings on of departments under his control is not a good thing, he should be taking a step back and letting the Civil Servants run them. His government Secretarys provide government policy and oversight. Again, something, imho, wrong about the US system.

With all of the allegations of wrongdoing currently doing the rounds, Trump must be distracted from the job of running the country (maybe that's a good thing) and let's hope the civil servants are smart enough to keep on plugging.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 03:10
The top positions are appointed.  And not only is it fairly early in his administration, but because President Trump has been appointing, shall we be nice and say, "non-typical" individuals, appointments have gone slowly.  And since President Trump is, shall we say, "learning on the job," appointments have gone slowly.  The democrats have done what they have to slow things down, but ultimately, they cannot block the appointments.  Given the problems that are bubbling up for the Trump administration, it is going to be hard to get empty appointments filled.  Who is going to want to go into such a hectic and potentially carrier killing position?  Especially with a boss who seems so erratic.

I would not "worry" about impeachment.  Let Donald worry about impeachment.  I would worry about finding out what has happened, and then once we have found out, only then is it a question of what to do next.  The Trump Whitehouse might implode before that.  
The rule of thumb in Washington DC is that you never get in trouble for the crime, you get in trouble because of the cover up.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 21 May 2017 at 04:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The top positions are appointed.  And not only is it fairly early in his administration, but because President Trump has been appointing, shall we be nice and say, "non-typical" individuals, appointments have gone slowly.  And since President Trump is, shall we say, "learning on the job," appointments have gone slowly.  The democrats have done what they have to slow things down, but ultimately, they cannot block the appointments.  Given the problems that are bubbling up for the Trump administration, it is going to be hard to get empty appointments filled.  Who is going to want to go into such a hectic and potentially carrier killing position?  Especially with a boss who seems so erratic.

I would not "worry" about impeachment.  Let Donald worry about impeachment.  I would worry about finding out what has happened, and then once we have found out, only then is it a question of what to do next.  The Trump Whitehouse might implode before that.  
The rule of thumb in Washington DC is that you never get in trouble for the crime, you get in trouble because of the cover up.

And covering up, or trying to, he most certainly is.

But back to the Departments, surely somewhere in the chain of command there is a permanent boss, a civil servant who maintains continuity when administrations change?




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 01:16
The FBI director normally has a ten year appointment.  He is appointed by the President, but will still be there some time after that president is gone.  He can be fired by the President, but that is really for gross negligence or corruption, which is not the case for James Comey.  There are some economic, or bank overseeing post that are the same way.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 01:28
Bring back Edgar J. LOL

-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 22 May 2017 at 12:09
At last, Donald J. has learned some political moves. When it gets too hot in the kitchen, go on an overseas tour.

-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 26 May 2017 at 22:14
I wonder, if Trump pulls a rabbit out of a hat, will everything else be forgiven?
I would say that Nixon pulled a rabbit out of the hat with normalizing relations with China.
Normalizing relations with China probably allowed Reagan to escalate against the USSR, which
lead to its implosion.  But, a lot of people harbor a personal dislike for Nixon.  Mao didn't understand
that, I mean it wasn't like Nixon sent out death squads or tortured dissidents, what were people complaining about, surely nothing compared to the Cultural Revolution?

The question is if Trump pulls a rabbit out of the hat with the economy, Israel, North Korea, or a host of other things, will people be inclined to forgive him for Russia, or shady business dealings, etc?  Of course, some people will lean one way or the other no matter what.  So the question is, what about those in the middle?


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 27 May 2017 at 02:39
I seriously doubt it!

Latest headlines.
1. Trump Pushes leader aside so he can get to the front. Ill mannered, boganesque idiot.

2. Trump son-in-law probed in Russia investigation-here we go.

3. Ex top CIA man says Russia definately had contact with Trump campaign personnel. - Lies, lies, even treason?

As someone said, definately in impeachment territory-and soonI hope.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 28 May 2017 at 01:53
It depends on how many rabbits and how big they are.

No, isn't that what Putin has done, corrupt as all hell, but he makes Russia feel like it has balls again.  Harkening back to the "good ol' days" of Stalin.  People are willing to overlook the few incongruities that get through the Kremlin controlled press, because Putin makes them "strong."


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 28 May 2017 at 02:52
Nope, not talking about Putin, he could be accused of almost anything.

I'm talking about your President, and the latests intrigues to beset him. Day by day, it gets worse. Will he see the year out?

The list of what he lacks as the Leader of the Free World by far outweighs his positive points, and there is now reason to suspect him of criminal activity, bordering on treason.

He could do the world a great big favour by resigning ahead of the wolf pack at his door.

 




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 02:45
I think you did not get my point.  Putin is horrid and he is excused by his people because he makes them feel tough again.  Russia is also superficially richer now, because of exploiting oil wealth.  
Trump is horrid and so I ask, will he be excused by Americans because he talks tough and finagles the economic situation?   He is going to rob Peter, to pay Paul, but Paul thinks that is a pretty good deal, and Peter doesn't know better.  When President Trump cuts food stamps by 1/4, it is going to effect a lot of the rural poor who, incidentally voted for him.  But as far as he is concerned, he is just doing what he promised to do, if he was a normal politician, he might actually care or at least try to appear to care for the people he is going to affect.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 03:56
Franciscosan

I must admit that sometimes I fail to see points that you're making. But all you say about Mr Trump, I tend to agree with.

His boorish, bad mannered behaviour towards other national leaders will not earn him any brownie points. I note that at the G7 Conference, the vote was 6-1 in relation to Climate Change action. Guess who the 1 was!

There's an Australian expression about walking in dog crap, and then walking inside all over the new carpet, and that's precisely what he's doing-every bloody day.

Do you think any action, like impeachment for example, will be taken against him? He's certainly not good for America or it's people. (imho of course)







-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 17:42
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Some people in life are, pardon the expression, sh*t magnets.  Donald Trump is _not_ a sh*t magnet, Donald Trump is a reverse sh*t magnet, Donald Trump is the proverbial fan that spatters sh*t on everyone else.  It is not that he stays clean, in fact it is matter of two negatives repelling each other.  One negative is the sh*t, and the other negative is Donald Trump.  Some people believe he has the Midas touch, and what he touches, like his escalator, turns to gold.  But, the truth of the matter is that he owes his "success" to being too big to fail.  He borrowed so much money, that if he fell, he would threaten to take banks with him, and so they felt obligated to prop him up.  In a way, that is his life strategy, and his Presidential strategy, he promises to be a complete pain in the ass, (and he is a complete ass), that if he doesn't get his way, he threatens to ruin everything.  He is a reverse sh*t magnet, and everybody around him gets spattered.  FBI director Comey is just the latest casualty.  Of course, one can read a conspiracy into Comey and Flint, but I am not sure it is that organized.  I am also not saying that the people don't deserve their downfall, that doesn't matter with a sh*t magnet, or a reverse sh*t magnet in this case.

Let me explain what I mean by a sh*t magnet.  In college, I knew a girl (but not in the Biblical sense), who a few years before, when she was 13, had a miscarriage.  Bad things happened to this girl, sometimes it was her fault, and sometimes not.  She had a miscarriage because she slept with her best friend's boyfriend, got pregnant, and her best friend beat her up, causing the miscarriage.  That was her fault.  Some people had Cary Grant karma, and some people have Charlie Brown karma.  (Someone once said to Cary Grant that they wanted to be Cary Grant, Cary Grant replied, "you want to be Cary Grant, [heck,] I want to be Cary Grant."  Karmically, even Cary Grant didn't have Cary Grant karma.  But, in any case, that definitely was her fault.  One thing that wasn't her fault, is she was walking down the street one day, and walked into a poisonous chlorine gas cloud, that had escaped from a nearby tank.  If it wasn't for bad luck, she would have had no luck at all.  That is what a sh*t magnet is.  It is not necessarily her fault, but bad things one way or other, happened to her.  Well, Trump is the reverse of that, bad things happen to people around him, "cosmically" I suspect it is not necessarily his fault, but if you are smart, you don't want to know him, and you definitely don't want a reverse sh*t to know you.  So all those "radical" right, fringe political appointees that Trump is making, I am not sure he is really doing them a favor.  But, I could be wrong, I have been wrong beforeWink.  This is just a theory for people to consider as the Trump presidency 'evolves.'

You must be sh*t sprayer too bc you just filled up two paragraphs and said absolutely nothing. Much like your filibustering Teletubbie, horrible democratic candidate who despite the support of the elite coasts still managed to stink on ice. Don't worry tho. It's probably not your fault.


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 29 May 2017 at 17:49
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Franciscosan

I must admit that sometimes I fail to see points that you're making. But all you say about Mr Trump, I tend to agree with.

His boorish, bad mannered behaviour towards other national leaders will not earn him any brownie points. I note that at the G7 Conference, the vote was 6-1 in relation to Climate Change action. Guess who the 1 was!

There's an Australian expression about walking in dog crap, and then walking inside all over the new carpet, and that's precisely what he's doing-every bloody day.

Do you think any action, like impeachment for example, will be taken against him? He's certainly not good for America or it's people. (imho of course)


You agree bc you buy into the democratic /TV network news agenda. It's just possible that a boor is needed in this modern world. You worked around real people during your career, ever hear anyone spout nonsense like fransicosan and try to call it enlightened thought? 
I seriously doubt it. Some like to think of themselves as a "Big Fish in a Little Pond" it's a syndrome. Only cure for it is common sense. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 30 May 2017 at 02:25
Vanuatu

What you say could be true. But this particular big fish is continually embarassing himself, and by extension, his country. He must be the most controversial US President this early in his administration, in US history. Usually there's a sweetheart period after the inauguration, but not this time.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 30 May 2017 at 03:22
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

What you say could be true. But this particular big fish is continually embarassing himself, and by extension, his country. He must be the most controversial US President this early in his administration, in US history. Usually there's a sweetheart period after the inauguration, but not this time.

Well you know, says you Wink
Someone said , and it's worth repeating 
If Trump discovered a cure for cancer, the headlines would read "Trump puts doctors out of work!"

Obama was a daily embarrassment IMHO. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 01:52
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

What you say could be true. But this particular big fish is continually embarassing himself, and by extension, his country. He must be the most controversial US President this early in his administration, in US history. Usually there's a sweetheart period after the inauguration, but not this time.

Well you know, says you Wink
Someone said , and it's worth repeating 
If Trump discovered a cure for cancer, the headlines would read "Trump puts doctors out of work!"

Obama was a daily embarrassment IMHO. 

Yeah, we disagree on the President, but we won't fight about him. Latest in the media is the report card from European leaders from the G7. Donny's been a naughty boy and is losing friends quickly-in their words, not mine.




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 02:31
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

What you say could be true. But this particular big fish is continually embarassing himself, and by extension, his country. He must be the most controversial US President this early in his administration, in US history. Usually there's a sweetheart period after the inauguration, but not this time.

Well you know, says you Wink
Someone said , and it's worth repeating 
If Trump discovered a cure for cancer, the headlines would read "Trump puts doctors out of work!"

Obama was a daily embarrassment IMHO. 

Yeah, we disagree on the President, but we won't fight about him. Latest in the media is the report card from European leaders from the G7. Donny's been a naughty boy and is losing friends quickly-in their words, not mine.


Certainly can't blame you for holding that opinion. One of the European leaders made a very positive comment about Trump. Noting that he's not coming over to Europe with flowery speeches and nonsense ideas like the Paris treaty (which may call upon China to cut their emissions (teehee) by some amount sometime after 2030).
However I soon realized that the one good quote was buried so far, under so much narrative that I could not locate it for you.
Instead I offer the lovely Mark Stein and invite you to take in the Canadian air. Very smart and funny. 
 


http://www.steynonline.com/" rel="nofollow - http://www.steynonline.com/


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 16:19
Why would I want to take in the Canadian air, when I live in the place which is recorded as having the cleanest air and rain water in the world. That's true by the way.

The Roaring 40's across the Indian Ocean reach Tasmania where they dump their first rain onto an atmosphere unpolluted by industry or anything else. With a population of just .5 million of course we have very, comparatively speaking, minor pollution around our industrial areas, but nothing at all like the pollution on the big island to our north.

The air is clean, crime is low and life is beautiful, what more could we ask for, oh yeah, higher wages and lower taxes.


-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2017 at 02:31
Vanuatu

Getting back on topic, and trying to be as impartial as I can, if I were to be a US citizen I would be very concerned about your president.

Is he making these major decisions, like exiting the Paris Accord on Climate Change, on the advice of government experts or or they at his own whim? I just don't know.

What other major decisions that he's made have been made at his own whim rather than on the advice of his experts, if any. 

Does he expressly provide what the people are asking for?

I'd be interested to know.




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 02:03
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

Getting back on topic, and trying to be as impartial as I can, if I were to be a US citizen I would be very concerned about your president.

Is he making these major decisions, like exiting the Paris Accord on Climate Change, on the advice of government experts or or they at his own whim? I just don't know.

What other major decisions that he's made have been made at his own whim rather than on the advice of his experts, if any. 

Does he expressly provide what the people are asking for?

I'd be interested to know.



I asked you to listen to the Canadian Mark Steyn bc Tasmania seems to be devoid of all conservative opinion. It's like they are only funneling left wing ramblings. 

The lead story on MSNBC the other day was "why does Trump get two scoops of ice cream, while the rest of the family has only one?"LOL
The Paris accord is a non binding resolution that isn't going to change the environment. The idea is global wealth redistribution at the expense of the US taxpayer. Now you like to mock the lack of wage increases as though it's a fixation but what you don't hear are the masses of everyday people who work for wages and are sick of the liberal lies.

It's not a whim. The people who do understand the Paris accord, are not for it. Try reading some conservative opinions toyomotor, you are wading in b***s***. 
Trump offered to renegotiate and Europe says No Thanks! They were looking forward to milking every dime out of us and now they won't, no apologies for being industrialized before China and India and we continue to decrease emissions at 18% a year since G.Bush got us out of the nutty Kyoto agreement that Bill Clinton gave birth to. 

The only thing the Paris accord guarantees
is a yearly meeting at a very expensive restaurant
for these Euro-thieves that Obama was only too happy to appease. 
Ok Longfellow?Tongue

*Obama never tried to have this 'agreement' ratified in congress bc he knew it would NEVER pass a vote. It's only real to Obama and his playmates, no one in the REAL WORLD does business this way. If your employer said in theory you have a retirement plan but it's non binding, so if we decide not to pay up, you lose toyomotor, would you go for that?


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 02:34
Vanuatu
Quote I asked you to listen to the Canadian Mark Stein bc Tasmania seems to be devoid of all conservative opinion. It's like they are only funneling left wing ramblings.

That's below the belt. Tasmania's quite the contrary really, quite conservative, although this is where the Green Movement in Australia first got off the ground.

The questions were mine alone, because the decision, in my mind, went against all recognised opinion, and against the other 6 top leaders. I merely wondered if he was acting a la Lone Wolf or if it was government policy, based on advice from his experts, I wasn't having a go at him this time.

Personally, although maybe you haven't come to recognise it, I'm conservative, come from a conservative background and occupation and am more than just a little interested in your president, due mainly to the almost daily reported gaffes that he's been involved in. I know that you see it differently.

As for the video link-Steyn- I did watch it, and I agree, partially with him. But from networking and collaboration come new ideas on how to deal with problems, and it could have been that the Paris meetings could have provided some ideas which the US could have used. I did say "could have".

To just walk away and say "Upya" doesn't seem to be the way, to me at least.





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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 02:43
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Quote I asked you to listen to the Canadian Mark Stein bc Tasmania seems to be devoid of all conservative opinion. It's like they are only funneling left wing ramblings.

That's below the belt. Tasmania's quite the contrary really, quite conservative, although this is where the Green Movement in Australia first got off the ground.

The questions were mine alone, because the decision, in my mind, went against all recognised opinion, and against the other 6 top leaders. I merely wondered if he was acting a la Lone Wolf or if it was government policy, based on advice from his experts, I wasn't having a go at him this time.

Personally, although maybe you haven't come to recognise it, I'm conservative, come from a conservative background and occupation and am more than just a little interested in your president, due mainly to the almost daily reported gaffes that he's been involved in. I know that you see it differently.


]
You do seem conservative that's why your question was puzzling. The gaffs are subjective and the six Euro-leaders are asked to make no changes that they don't care to make. They were allowed to set their own benchmarks bc attempts at a unified code for compliance with emissions has been un-attainable. Europe and Asia are citing the US and our industrial success as the reason why they need not conform to the current US standards. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 02:59
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Quote I asked you to listen to the Canadian Mark Stein bc Tasmania seems to be devoid of all conservative opinion. It's like they are only funneling left wing ramblings.

That's below the belt. Tasmania's quite the contrary really, quite conservative, although this is where the Green Movement in Australia first got off the ground.

The questions were mine alone, because the decision, in my mind, went against all recognised opinion, and against the other 6 top leaders. I merely wondered if he was acting a la Lone Wolf or if it was government policy, based on advice from his experts, I wasn't having a go at him this time.

Personally, although maybe you haven't come to recognise it, I'm conservative, come from a conservative background and occupation and am more than just a little interested in your president, due mainly to the almost daily reported gaffes that he's been involved in. I know that you see it differently.


]
You do seem conservative that's why your question was puzzling. The gaffs are subjective and the six Euro-leaders are asked to make no changes that they don't care to make. They were allowed to set their own benchmarks bc attempts at a unified code for compliance with emissions has been un-attainable. Europe and Asia are citing the US and our industrial success as the reason why they need not conform to the current US standards. 

Not seem, am. Yes they are subjective, and as I've explained before, being so far away, all I can go on is media reports from our own media and sources like the New York Times and CNN. Are they objective? I don't know. I have a lot of respect for Angela Merkel, she appears to be level heanded and progressive. Yeah, I know, she's created a real problem over the refugee immigration, but, what could she do? Have them all shot? Mr Trump has insulted her on the international stage for no apparent reason, so I would lean towards whatever decision she makes on the Paris Accord, recognising that what's good for Europe ain't necessarily gunna work in Yonkers.

Obviously each country has to examine it's own pollution problem and work out means to fix it, but brainstorming isn't a bad idea.




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 03:18
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Quote I asked you to listen to the Canadian Mark Stein bc Tasmania seems to be devoid of all conservative opinion. It's like they are only funneling left wing ramblings.

That's below the belt. Tasmania's quite the contrary really, quite conservative, although this is where the Green Movement in Australia first got off the ground.

The questions were mine alone, because the decision, in my mind, went against all recognised opinion, and against the other 6 top leaders. I merely wondered if he was acting a la Lone Wolf or if it was government policy, based on advice from his experts, I wasn't having a go at him this time.

Personally, although maybe you haven't come to recognise it, I'm conservative, come from a conservative background and occupation and am more than just a little interested in your president, due mainly to the almost daily reported gaffes that he's been involved in. I know that you see it differently.


]
You do seem conservative that's why your question was puzzling. The gaffs are subjective and the six Euro-leaders are asked to make no changes that they don't care to make. They were allowed to set their own benchmarks bc attempts at a unified code for compliance with emissions has been un-attainable. Europe and Asia are citing the US and our industrial success as the reason why they need not conform to the current US standards. 

Not seem, am. Yes they are subjective, and as I've explained before, being so far away, all I can go on is media reports from our own media and sources like the New York Times and CNN. Are they objective? I don't know. I have a lot of respect for Angela Merkel, she appears to be level heanded and progressive. Yeah, I know, she's created a real problem over the refugee immigration, but, what could she do? Have them all shot? Mr Trump has insulted her on the international stage for no apparent reason, so I would lean towards whatever decision she makes on the Paris Accord, recognising that what's good for Europe ain't necessarily gunna work in Yonkers.

Obviously each country has to examine it's own pollution problem and work out means to fix it, but brainstorming isn't a bad idea.


And being so far away maybe you could listen to some of the conservative voices that are being left out of the conversation internationally and attacked at the national level.

Merkel wasn't supposed to have anyone shot, no sir. Again refugees were being subsidized and the EU did have plan for a slow ordered diaspora. That was shot to hell well Merkel went rogue and decided that for this major decision the EU wasn't important only what Merkel wanted mattered. 
Which was what? 
To be an angel of mercy to islamic refugees while destroying the good life of German citizens? What a flippin' hero! 

Trump doesn't respect her and I'm sure he knew that he wasn't going to make any of the Euro leaders very happy and they have all talked a lot of crap about him , so there is a reason why he is on guard with her. With exception of Theresa May who has criticized Trump without demonizing him, all the Euro-leaders are afraid of Trump and I personally prefer it that way. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 05:04
Donald Trump's motto is make America great again.
But America is already great, and under Trump it is becoming increasingly was, not is.
Trump is a disaster, and he will be the ruin of America.

PJ O'Rourke, a conservative humorist advocated Hillary because she was only a normal
distaster, Whereas Trump was and is an extraordinary disaster.  Donald Trump is not a 
conservative, religious right, knee jerk red neck may think he is their man, after much 
denial they will eventually find out otherwise.  They are living it up right now, but they 
 will soon find out who is on the receiving end of the relationship. 


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2017 at 07:54
Vanuatu

Quote And being so far away maybe you could listen to some of the conservative voices that are being left out of the conversation internationally and attacked at the national level.

Merkel wasn't supposed to have anyone shot, no sir. Again refugees were being subsidized and the EU did have plan for a slow ordered diaspora. That was shot to hell well Merkel went rogue and decided that for this major decision the EU wasn't important only what Merkel wanted mattered. 
Which was what? 
To be an angel of mercy to islamic refugees while destroying the good life of German citizens? What a flippin' hero! 

Trump doesn't respect her and I'm sure he knew that he wasn't going to make any of the Euro leaders very happy and they have all talked a lot of crap about him , so there is a reason why he is on guard with her. With exception of Theresa May who has criticized Trump without demonizing him, all the Euro-leaders are afraid of Trump and I personally prefer it that way.

Gulp!!! I didn't mean to step on your toe, any of them.Ouch
I've considered abandoning this thread, because I seem to have foot in Mouth disease. That I'm, sort of, supported by Franciscosan has convinced me that this would be the best course.
The white flag is raised, that cloud of dust in the distance is me, beating a hasty retreat  strategic withdrawal. Survival after all, is the ultimate victory.




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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 02:39
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

Quote And being so far away maybe you could listen to some of the conservative voices that are being left out of the conversation internationally and attacked at the national level.

Merkel wasn't supposed to have anyone shot, no sir. Again refugees were being subsidized and the EU did have plan for a slow ordered diaspora. That was shot to hell well Merkel went rogue and decided that for this major decision the EU wasn't important only what Merkel wanted mattered. 
Which was what? 
To be an angel of mercy to islamic refugees while destroying the good life of German citizens? What a flippin' hero! 

Trump doesn't respect her and I'm sure he knew that he wasn't going to make any of the Euro leaders very happy and they have all talked a lot of crap about him , so there is a reason why he is on guard with her. With exception of Theresa May who has criticized Trump without demonizing him, all the Euro-leaders are afraid of Trump and I personally prefer it that way.

Gulp!!! I didn't mean to step on your toe, any of them.Ouch
I've considered abandoning this thread, because I seem to have foot in Mouth disease. That I'm, sort of, supported by Franciscosan has convinced me that this would be the best course.
The white flag is raised, that cloud of dust in the distance is me, beating a hasty retreat  strategic withdrawal. Survival after all, is the ultimate victory.



You poor little lamb. Don't we always fight on the Trump thread? What happens on the Trump thread, stays on the Trump thread.

The Heritage Foundation is a conservative think tank, they break it all down and you will understand the push back. 
Note, franciscosan is just dumping on Trump there is no discussion of the events.

http://www.heritage.org/impact/heritage-research-impacts-trumps-decision-withdraw-paris-climate-deal" rel="nofollow - http://www.heritage.org/impact/heritage-research-impacts-trumps-decision-withdraw-paris-climate-deal

http://www.heritage.org/testimony/paris-climate-promise-bad-deal-america" rel="nofollow - http://www.heritage.org/testimony/paris-climate-promise-bad-deal-america



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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 03:10
A lot of my comments are based on my wish to be informed, rather than cause an arguement. By making statements based on the media reports, I'm hoping that someone totally unbiased (no, not youLOL) will tell me what's happening.

Frank seems to be so far right of centre(or is it left, I can never tell) that he'd wear out a pair of boots walking back and people like the Captain Panther and Caldrail don't seem to be about anymore.

You seem to me to be a political animal, that is you have a keen interest in politics and know what's going on. I'm not political at all, I vote for the same party every election safe in the knowledge that they'll do better than the other blokes. I'm a conservative, but if I have to be classified further, I'd be slightly right of centre, more of a hawk than a dove, but with some dove like tendencies.

Now, having digressed so far from the topic, mea culpa, I say this, my interest at present is not so much in US politics, because I don't understand how the system could exist as it is, but more about the President himself and the media attention he attracts. And he does attract media attention, whether rightly or wrongly.




-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 03:38
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

By making statements based on the media reports, I'm hoping that someone totally unbiased (no, not youLOL) will tell me what's happening.
I understand that and in my delicate way I try to give you the flip side, the antethesis of democratic fake news

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Frank seems to be so far right of centre(or is it left, I can never tell) that he'd wear out a pair of boots walking back and people like the Captain Panther and Caldrail don't seem to be about anymore.
Neither here nor there. I read back in the threads, it seems like politics split the group off at the end eh?

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

You seem to me to be a political animal, that is you have a keen interest in politics and know what's going on. I'm not political at all, I vote for the same party every election safe in the knowledge that they'll do better than the other blokes. I'm a conservative, but if I have to be classified further, I'd be slightly right of centre, more of a hawk than a dove, but with some dove like tendencies.

You draw a line at being overrun by saber wielding maniacs. You want 'unbiased' but you are limiting your sources of information; how can make up your mind if you just keep eating the pablum? 

Politics isn't your life but now it matters more bc all of the international press 'sky is falling' chicken littles have become deranged over an outsider POTUS who does things without being in the pocket of political puppet-masters or prisoner to political correctness. He actually is very popular with voters. 
Do you think that I'm making that up?
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Now, having digressed so far from the topic, mea culpa, I say this, my interest at present is not so much in US politics, because I don't understand how the system could exist as it is, but more about the President himself and the media attention he attracts. And he does attract media attention, whether rightly or wrongly.

The president should be scrutinized but this is hysteria.  

You haven't digressed this is about Trump and that should include what the leftist in the US have done to obstruct and tear down the administration. The system of false news isn't new at all. It's just more difficult to keep all the sheep in line. Information can't be controlled like it was 30 years ago, that explains the intensity of the false news narrative. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 09:40
Quote You draw a line at being overrun by saber wielding maniacs. You want 'unbiased' but you are limiting your sources of information; how can make up your mind if you just keep eating the pablum?

Fair suck of the sav! What other sources do I have? I read the internet reports from what I believe are reliable and comparatively unbiased sources from Australia, US and around the world.

Quote Politics isn't your life but now it matters more bc all of the international press 'sky is falling' chicken littles have become deranged over an outsider POTUS who does things without being in the pocket of political puppet-masters or prisoner to political correctness. He actually is very popular with voters.

Obviously not all of them, possibly not even a majority.

Perhaps I should subscribe to the GOP Monthly Newsletters!!!



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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 19:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote You draw a line at being overrun by saber wielding maniacs. You want 'unbiased' but you are limiting your sources of information; how can make up your mind if you just keep eating the pablum?

Fair suck of the sav! What other sources do I have? I read the internet reports from what I believe are reliable and comparatively unbiased sources from Australia, US and around the world.

Quote Politics isn't your life but now it matters more bc all of the international press 'sky is falling' chicken littles have become deranged over an outsider POTUS who does things without being in the pocket of political puppet-masters or prisoner to political correctness. He actually is very popular with voters.

Obviously not all of them, possibly not even a majority.

Perhaps I should subscribe to the GOP Monthly Newsletters!!!

Why not GOP? You have been listening to the jackasses of the dnc.

You should try Fox News, I know it's available online. That's if you are actually interested in information.

Our media is mostly liberal, you know the people who control most of the information? The people who supported Trump continue to support him and those who would rather attack him over attacking terrorists, still hate him.

Now you can list all of the presidents, including the Australian presidents who have had support of ALL the voters.
 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 04 Jun 2017 at 19:04


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 00:15
Donald Trump has about a 35 % approval rating and it is slowly, but steadily creeping down.

I doubt looking at Fox News will give anything like a balanced news perspective, Fox is good for looking at what the Fringe on the right are doing, this Fringe is very active, and visible, and often Pro-Trump.  They are right now the tail wagging the dog of the republican party.  Trump is playing up to them, and is even endorsing some of their bad ideas, although he had formerly had good ones (on health care).

I am sure minions and dittoheads of Fox would consider me a Rhino, I like Rhinos, they're tough, and thick skinned, they are hard to get moving when stopped and hard to stop when moving.  The Fox freaks consider Rhino to be derogatory, (Republican in name only).  They would rather have litmus loyalty tests and thought police.  Scratch that, they don't want thought police, they don't want thought at all, just knee jerk obedience to the whims of some very flawed individuals.

The religious right and the school voucher system are a little high right now because they're getting some traction on their issues, formerly having been shut out.  They may be able to change pieces of the system, but I do wonder if all that means is that when they're gone, and when the wave of backlash against Trump's presidency, comes in, will everything just revert back to the way it was with NEA (teacher's unions) ruling K-12 but this time out with a (self-) righteous vengeance.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 02:46
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Donald Trump has about a 35 % approval rating and it is slowly, but steadily creeping down.

Are those the same polls that said he would never win the presidency?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I doubt looking at Fox News will give anything like a balanced news perspective, Fox is good for looking at what the Fringe on the right are doing, this Fringe is very active, and visible, and often Pro-Trump.

As opposed to the left wing media that saturates every newscast with anti_Trump_ dump? No one is suggesting that you watch Fox , your head would explode. Are you referring to the right wing fringe that got him elected? Then you mean most of the working class, not academics who endorse destruction of property,  the murder of police and the unwavering allegiance to policies that want America to crawl for Europe and the Third world.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

They are right now the tail wagging the dog of the republican party.  Trump is playing up to them, and is even endorsing some of their bad ideas, although he had formerly had good ones (on health care).

And the leftist dog pooping on it's tail or whatever nonsense you are spouting today, is superior to everyone else? The issues affecting the working class don't matter, right?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I am sure minions and dittoheads of Fox would consider me a Rhino, I like Rhinos, they're tough, and thick skinned, they are hard to get moving when stopped and hard to stop when moving. 
 

Don't forget nearly blind. a rhino sees only 30 feet in front of him but can run at 30 miles per hour. So when he is charging he is running blind. Sounds like a RINO to me, only one type I'd like to save.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The Fox freaks consider Rhino to be derogatory, (Republican in name only).  They would rather have litmus loyalty tests and thought police.  Scratch that, they don't want thought police, they don't want thought at all, just knee jerk obedience to the whims of some very flawed individuals.
 

You really are backwards, so far Hillary has 40 entities that she blames for losing the election. No thought required just roll with it lefty.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

The religious right and the school voucher system are a little high right now because they're getting some traction on their issues, formerly having been shut out.  They may be able to change pieces of the system, but I do wonder if all that means is that when they're gone, and when the wave of backlash against Trump's presidency, comes in, will everything just revert back to the way it was with NEA (teacher's unions) ruling K-12 but this time out with a (self-) righteous vengeance.

That makes very little sense. You started out strong but then as usual your emotions turn you into a babbling stereotype. 

Edited by Mod.


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 03:09
Vanuatu
Quote And the leftist dog pooping on it's tail or whatever nonsense you are spouting today, is superior to everyone else? The issues affecting the working class don't matter, right?

Might be better if you didn't resort to name calling.


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 03:20
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Quote And the leftist dog pooping on it's tail or whatever nonsense you are spouting today, is superior to everyone else? The issues affecting the working class don't matter, right?

Might be better if you didn't resort to name calling.

Egghead respectfully withdrawn. Oh never mind you already censored me. 


-------------
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 05:02
So you think that 48 % actually voted _for_ Trump?  A lot of people voted against Hillary, not so much for Trump.  Hillary Clinton got three million more votes than Donald, they were just concentrated in the Eastern seaboard and the left coast.  Didn't really help.  Of course, Donald Trump cannot stand that he won not by popular vote, but only by the electoral college.  You might say Donald won from a technicality, and like everything else it sticks in his craw.

A friend recently told me that those who get their news from Fox are more ignorant than those who don't pay attention to the news at all.  Whether or not it is true, I am not sure, but it does make sense at least, and Vanuatu's bombastic attitude does nothing to dispel it.  As far as most news media outlets being biased, well of course they are bias.  There is no such thing as a purely objective news cast.  The question is can you use different media outlets to compliment each other and get a more rounded view of what is going on.  So if you want, sure, listen to talk radio, but listen to NPR, BBC, NHK, DW and if your in the mood for a real propagandistic use of the news, RT.  If you do that, you will see that one paints the picture from one perspective and leave certain things out, whereas another will do another perspective.  You watch a mix of perspectives on the same issue, and soon you will realize what perspective leaves out what kind of things. Media outlets have blindspots, and learning about different ones, helps one recognize those blindspots.  Of course, some of those blindspots are limitations they recognize, others are not so much.  But the belief that Donald Trump is being picked on doesn't understand the role of the press in the United States, HL Mencken said the relationship between the press and the presidency is like that of a dog and a lamppost.  Trump's adoring fans don't seem to understand why the press could be so mean to him.  After all, he has feelings too! Cry.  Some people have a belief that if someone is persecuted an picked on, then they must really be a righteous person.  They cannot accept that maybe all this flack Donald Trump is getting is deserved and has been deserved all Trump's ugly life.  I am not worried about Donald Trump's survival, I am worried about the rest of us, including the politicians who have harnessed their boat to his yacht


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 06:34
Franciscosan
Quote  Some people have a belief that if someone is persecuted and picked on, then they must really be a righteous person.  They cannot accept that maybe all this flack Donald Trump is getting is deserved and has been deserved all Trump's ugly life.  I am not worried about Donald Trump's survival, I am worried about the rest of us, including the politicians who have harnessed their boat to his yacht.

IMHO, the flack that your President attracts is deserved, if what the media is saying is accurate. Vanuatu presents a different view to that you provide, in fact you are diametrically opposed.

As I've written previously, never in my lifetime has a national leader, let alone a US President attracted so much criticism in such a short time. I can only judge from what the media tells me. Vanuatu says that the media I source is biased, how am I to know, after all it's US media.

From the electronic media clips I've seen, I've formed the opinion that the man's an arrogant meglomaniac with his own opinions on everything, which he seems keen to share with the world, however wrong he may be. He started with the estimates of the crowd at his inauguration, and went from one false fact to another, down hill from there.

I anticipate another roasting from V, but, that's my opinion of the man, and it's an opinion formed long before he entered politics.




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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2017 at 21:52
Well, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and so I am willing to say there may be things Donald Trump is right on (as in the equivalent of 2 seconds, out of a 24 hour period, if a second represents what he gets right 2/24x60x60).  I have tried giving him some benefit of the doubt, but he makes it hard to see the silver lining.  
When he was elected, the market went up, thinking that with Republicans in, there would be a loosening up of regulation, now however, I understand that the market went down, seeing the havoc created by the Whitehouse.   


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 11:04
A proven liar says that he will give evidence on oath? (Hee hee hee!)

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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 17:20
I don't know which one of you two is more senile. 

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http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow - adult photo sharing


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 17:21
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Quote And the leftist dog pooping on it's tail or whatever nonsense you are spouting today, is superior to everyone else? The issues affecting the working class don't matter, right?

Might be better if you didn't resort to name calling.

Egghead respectfully withdrawn. Oh never mind you already censored me. 

I give you credit for even trying.

North and his commie friends have decided to destroy the last bit of hope this once great community had. 


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http://postimage.org/" rel="nofollow - adult photo sharing


Posted By: es_bih
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 17:23
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu
Quote And the leftist dog pooping on it's tail or whatever nonsense you are spouting today, is superior to everyone else? The issues affecting the working class don't matter, right?

Might be better if you didn't resort to name calling.

Egghead respectfully withdrawn. Oh never mind you already censored me. 

“Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one’s mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them.”

Ouch




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Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 10 Jun 2017 at 23:29
Okay, that is double think, what is the relevance of bringing up doublethink in this context?  I would think that President Trump is too shallow for double think, he wears his id on his sleeve.  So apparently you are talking about someone else, everyone else?

When I say that President Trump is shallow, I do not mean that as an insult, but an observation.  Donald Trump in the past has extolled the virtues of shallowness.  Most of what the public sees is the obnoxious side of Trump, but I also understand that he can be quite charming in person.  Still shallow, but quite charming.
I agree with McConnell that we could have less drama coming out of the Whitehouse.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2017 at 04:11
It was interesting with President Trump a few days ago, after the Alexandria shooting, being the voice of unity.  I guess his speech writer wrote out the script and Trump made sure he stuck to it.  It is nice that he can stick to a script if he sees it as necessary.  Trump is learning some, I don't know if it is enough or fast enough.

I almost call Trump the voice of reason for a moment, almost. <grin>

It is interesting that the shooter was a Saunders supporter, it is not only the right that is pissed off and angry these days.  People don't feel that the system is fair, they feel there is favoritism, that there is not a level playing field.


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 15:07
It shouldn't be a surprise that Bernie Sanders fool lost his mind like most of the left. Especially when you consider the hate being spewed by leftist organizations like the mainstream media and the dnc.

By the way, lots of people were appalled by what Obama did in office. You never saw this violence and vitriol from conservative groups meant to impede all progress. Now free speech on college campuses is a thing of the past because of cowards who can't cope with the f***up that Obama delivered to the world.  

Now it's hate speech and it's OK because it's falling from the sky like snowflakes.


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 17:14
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Donald Trump's motto is make America great again.
But America is already great, and under Trump it is becoming increasingly was, not is.
Trump is a disaster, and he will be the ruin of America.

Maybe you haven't noticed but the greatness dwindled during Obama's apology-fest. Are you wishing for failure? Sure sounds like it. Maybe someday academics will fix their own plumbing, fix their own cars and grow their own food. Until then it's just hate speech because academics don't provide anything of value to the quality of life. In fact academia has resulted in 40% of the population attaining useless degrees and on average a master's degree in a useless field will cost a quarter million$ with graduates working at Best Buy.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

PJ O'Rourke, a conservative humorist advocated Hillary because she was only a normal
distaster, Whereas Trump was and is an extraordinary disaster.

Hillary is a disaster of biblical proportions, could never create jobs, deal with the mobs inspired to murder police (encouraged by the dnc) or handle NK or Russia. Some reset. She's an unapologetic power monger.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

 Donald Trump is not a 
conservative, religious right, knee jerk red neck may think he is their man, after much 
denial they will eventually find out otherwise.  They are living it up right now, but they 
 will soon find out who is on the receiving end of the relationship. 
No adult over 40 thinks that Trump is religious. And and he was a democrat for most of his life. So you are labeling all of Trump's voters as rednecks? The fringe? Nonsense. Then give me rednecks. 

Why did Mr. NYC win these people over? It's because Obama failed miserably and Hillary is a see through liar who posed as an honest person. Trump always distinguishes his political agenda from provocative comments that are a response to the 97% of negative news stories by liberal bed wetters. If you can't see the distinction then you your tuition was wasted.


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 17:48
Liberals Mock Warmbier's captivity. And these are the "Good" people?




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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: Vanuatu
Date Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 18:03
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Okay, that is double think, what is the relevance of bringing up doublethink in this context?  I would think that President Trump is too shallow for double think, he wears his id on his sleeve.  So apparently you are talking about someone else, everyone else?

When I say that President Trump is shallow, I do not mean that as an insult, but an observation.  Donald Trump in the past has extolled the virtues of shallowness.  Most of what the public sees is the obnoxious side of Trump, but I also understand that he can be quite charming in person.  Still shallow, but quite charming.
I agree with McConnell that we could have less drama coming out of the Whitehouse.

You think because Trump doesn't indulge in grandiloquence it makes him simple minded? He spent his life learning about the world, media and making money. Maybe you are impressed with that nonsense gibberish meant to obscure the plain and simple truth but just an aside, your pal Hillary is a pretty dim bulb especially when she opens her fat mouth. Oh, right you like proper names and don't like the word fat. 

Well take your own advice fransicosan. 

I mean really, will the people of the FUTURE know what the ho's war was? Don't be such a hypocrite. 


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Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2017 at 02:34
WOW! Vanuatu's back, and with a vengence!

-------------
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: franciscosan
Date Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 23:04
"ho"? you mean like pimps call women?  I imagine that those who get into depth into history in the future might now what you are talking about, but I don't.  I try to use the full name or title at least once in a post, towards the beginning.  Of course sometimes I am talking about the campaign persona of Donald Trump (up to and including today) and so I will talk about just "Trump".  The "Trump Presidency or the Trump campaign or so forth."
hypocrisy recognizes that there are various virtues/values that it is important to strive for, even if we fall short.  Trying to be virtuous, is itself virtuous, although it is not as good as succeeding.
  
I don't follow the news closely and so I don't know who mocked Warmbier.  I feel sympathy for him, but I wonder why anyone would willingly go to North Korea in the first place.  He is (was) a pawn in a much bigger game than he realized, and I am afraid he paid the price.  It is not a matter of guilt, it is the matter of convenience for the North Korean regime.  The North Korean regime was looking for an excuse to use him as a pawn in the game, and he gave it to them.  This is a country that tested nerve gas on the families of political dissidents.  R.I.P, for all of the casualties of the regime.

But on the same token, I believe that fools rush in where angels fear to tread.  It is of no use to get mad about it, and then go off half-cocked because one is mad.  I have always thought of it as a liberal mistake to believe that one must do "something," because "cares" so deeply.  "Caring" is not of much use to anyone, unless you know how to care in the right way.  Radicals thought that Reagan (Ray-guns) was the devil, and because of that they don't recognize that he did what they said they wanted all along, end the cold war, and the MAD policy (Mutually Assured Destruction).


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 17:14
Franciscosan
So that we all don't ticked off with you, it would be helpful if you addressed your comments to the member intended. Thanks Franky.Smile


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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.


Posted By: toyomotor
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 17:17
Vanuatu

Without mentioning the "T" name at all, and slightly off post, tell me, knowing the instability that exists in NoKo, why do Americans go to NoKo at all? Don't they realise that they could be arrested and used in "show trials" for propaganda purposes?



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It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.



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