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Pyramids

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    Posted: 24 Nov 2019 at 12:38
Archaeologists have estimated that the pyramid tombs of the ancients probably took about one hundred thousand workers about twenty years to build.

King Tut An Khamun died at the age of about 19years, if the above is true, then the pyramids could have not been finished before the death of the various Pharoahs, even if work commenced on the day that they were born.

  1. Could it be that the construction of pyramids was an ongoing public works, with individual embellishments added later?
  2. We have yet to resolve the question of the technology involved in their construction with stone cut perfectly and moved more that 80 miles from quarry to building site.
The questions don't stop with Egypt, they also apply to, for example, the ancients cities of South America, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote truthsetsfree Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2019 at 16:45
Herodotus said the Great Pyramid of Cheops/Khufu took 20 years to build. Other pyramids are not so great.
Some pyramids like Meydum one are supposed to have been started by one king and finished by another, like the Meydum pyramid is supposed to have been Huni's and finished by Sneferu.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 09:11
The second video mentions copper tools found that can cut the limestone, when an abrasive like sand or powdered rock are used with copper blades. These methods are still being used today in India by traditional builders. 

How were the blocks raised to the top of the 489ft Great Pyramid? An architect develops a theory about a snaking internal ramp that's been hidden inside the pyramid for 4500 years. ➡ Subscribe: http://bit.ly/NatGeoSubscribe






Edited by Vanuatu - 25 Nov 2019 at 09:13
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 10:39
Tutankhamen was buried in the Valley of the Kings, no pyramid involved, I think.  His site was long concealed because of the rubble of another tomb in front of the entrance of Tut's tomb.

There was an article (which I never read) in Scientific American (or Science magazine), about the organizational requirements it would have taken to build the great Pyramids.  I seem to remember that they had to get workers in from the boonies, doing so gave local leaders (for the various remote regions) power, and that destabilized the whole Pharonic system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 11:12
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Tutankhamen was buried in the Valley of the Kings, no pyramid involved, I think.  His site was long concealed because of the rubble of another tomb in front of the entrance of Tut's tomb.

There was an article (which I never read) in Scientific American (or Science magazine), about the organizational requirements it would have taken to build the great Pyramids.  I seem to remember that they had to get workers in from the boonies, doing so gave local leaders (for the various remote regions) power, and that destabilized the whole Pharaonic system.

Yes, I think you're right, he was buried in the Valley of The Kings, but the theory still exists.

From the records that are available, it seems that the pyramids took decades to build, and mostly were unfinished by the time that the pharaoh died.

Again you're right, from what I've read it seems that every able man from miles around were conscripted for the work force. Then you have the years of decorating the tombs.

Similarly, the discovery of buildings carved from "living rock" indicate that many years of work took place, again using many labourers.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2019 at 13:23
You are mummifying the body, it can wait until the tomb is finished.  Stick it in a dry store room, and continue the construction until it is done.  We have the contents of the tomb of a minor pharaoh, which was broken into, but not fully pillaged, just a quick theft.  What would a major pharaonic tomb look like, (unpillaged that is)?

I think the workmanship of the artifacts of the Tutankhamen tomb is amazing. But at the same time when one has artistic traditions going back eons, with a constant refinement, well amazing things are possible.  
We don't have the inherited tradition, son trained in family trade, we have to 're-invent the wheel" artistically in each generation.  That is okay, we like new wheels, whereas the Egyptians did the same thing, over and over, refining it. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 02:41
Terence McKenna, DMT traveler, said that he saw little elves on DMT trips. The elves told him to "do this" as they say it, the elves are pulling gadgets and gears from their pockets, pulling switches and pressing buttons. Chanting elves saying "doo this."  He emphasizes the "doo" part so it may not matter what you do only that it's something.

When creativity and power meet it could mean pyramids. If the pharaoh wants to be reincarnated like the Sun God -Ra then he has to be in the light when Ra is reincarnated at every sunrise. 

Definitely taking the wide view of the cosmos and seeing themselves playing a part in it, alchemy may take over where pharaohs leave off in pursuit of higher states of existence.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2019 at 14:01
I suggest you make a pyramid and see what happens.  I mean seriously.  If you make a pyramid, that means the creativity and power have met.  Build a pyramid, and see how you feel.
btw, did you know that the pyramid is one of the "perfect shapes" (4 sided, including bottom).

to doo is to be,
to be is to do,
do be do be do.

The Egyptians did not have much imagination, think about, they mummified because they thought the "next" life was going to be a continuation.  In fact, I am not sure they thought there was a "next" life as such.  They had a very complex cosmology/theology, but their literature (stories) is pretty plain.  Not much in "secular" literature.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Dec 2019 at 00:33
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I suggest you make a pyramid and see what happens.  I mean seriously.  If you make a pyramid, that means the creativity and power have met.
I say the pyramid is a pinnacle of creativity for the time.

 
Quote Build a pyramid, and see how you feel.
btw, did you know that the pyramid is one of the "perfect shapes" (4 sided, including bottom).

to doo is to be,
to be is to do,
do be do be do.


Quote The Egyptians did not have much imagination, think about, they mummified because they thought the "next" life was going to be a continuation.  In fact, I am not sure they thought there was a "next" life as such.  They had a very complex cosmology/theology, but their literature (stories) is pretty plain.  Not much in "secular" literature.
lol
I bet the workers had great stories but yes the myths are all about creation out of the water. That is more impressive to me then the cosmology. After all they determined the source of life and Darwin found a similar explanation. Egypt did observe Pleiades, seven stars for seven goddesses.


Edited by Vanuatu - 22 Dec 2019 at 23:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Dec 2019 at 14:39
The Greeks observed the Pleiades, you can read it in Hesiod's Works and Days.

In Egyptian myth, the sky is female, and the Earth is male.  Of course, it hardly ever rained in Egypt.
In Greek myth, the sky is male, and the Earth is female.

Babylonian mythos starts with the destruction of Apsu and Tiamat.  I think Apsu was fresh water, and Tiamat was salt water.

Think about it, how would your stories be if you thought that the (after)life was merely a continuation of this life?  The Egyptian stories that I have read are not much.  Of course, I haven't read that much, could be something.  But, the biggest question for the imagination is 'what is after life?'
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 02:36
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

  But, the biggest question for the imagination is 'what is after life?'
It's a great new topicTongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Dec 2019 at 11:35
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

  But, the biggest question for the imagination is 'what is after life?'
It's a great new topicTongue

So why aren't we keeping to the OP?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Dec 2019 at 01:59
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

  But, the biggest question for the imagination is 'what is after life?'
It's a great new topicTongue

So why aren't we keeping to the OP?
So you don't cry Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 13:44
So, when are the Great Pyramids built in relationship to the 'pyramids' of Mesoamerica?  the Cambodian ruins? the Ziggurats? other such structures?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Dec 2019 at 14:25
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

So, when are the Great Pyramids built in relationship to the 'pyramids' of Mesoamerica?  the Cambodian ruins? the Ziggurats? other such structures?

The Ziggurats precede the Great pyramids in Egypt.
Meso American are Peru 8th century I think but have to check, first sleeep.
Cambodia and India have stone structures standing that date to just after the pyramids but lots of coastal sites with cut stone miles from the shore. Lots of photographs from the Tsunami in 2004.

 Bulgaria and Turkey have the oldest cut stone structures. afaik


Edited by Vanuatu - 17 Dec 2019 at 14:26
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 2019 at 06:55
Dates please,
Peru is not Meso American.  (Meso means Middle)
8th century? what? before common error, or common error?

What about Aztec, Mayan?  There are others as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 00:47
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Dates please,
Peru is not Meso American.
No is isn't. 
The oldest cut/carved rock is in Peru 8 CE, an estimate. Cuzco, Peru -Sacsayhuaman could be pounded rock, it's a softer kind of Limestone similarly used as Egyptian Sandstone was for large blocks. Carvings, must be carved out. Cutting tools were found all around the site, some disagreement there among eggheads. Some rocks were left loose to allow movement during earthquakes. 

Macchu Pichu is 15th century, volcanic rock definitely blade cut with use of powder made from harder rocks, they had igneous rock.


 

The Megalithic Temple of Malinalco: Could these Magnificent and Complex Rock-Cut Structures Actually Pre-Date the Aztecs?

The little town of Malinalco lies at the margins of the Valley of Tepoztlan, some 115 kilometers (71 miles) to the southwest of Mexico City. Since Prehispanic times, its name has been associated with magic and sorcery: Malinalxochitl, goddess of snakes was worshipped on the Cerro de los Idolos , a hill overlooking the entire valley and the town below. In 1470, a temple was built on the hill as a sanctuary and a center of initiation for the military elite of the Aztec empire, the Eagle and Jaguar warriors. The origins of the site may, however, date back hundreds or even thousands of years earlier.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 10:22
But, if the Mayan 'pyramids' are hundreds of years after the Egyptian pyramids, then does it make sense to say they are derived from the Egyptian pyramids?  Maybe the idea could have travelled over hundreds of years from one to the other.  But, if it took that long, then what would the Mayans (or Aztecs) have but a _very_ basic and crude idea?  I think it is more likely that there is a basic archtype in the human soul for building pyramids and mounds, than that there was any large scale contact between the Egyptians and the Mayans.  And if it took hundreds of years and the connection was aliens, then why did they not get around to it sooner?  I mean, granted alien minds are alien.

Do you mean "CE" or "BCE"?  There is stuff in South America older than the Inca, but I don't know about their stonework.  V, do you have a DVD player these days?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Dec 2019 at 10:25
Could it be that Egyptians found their way to the Americas and planted the idea for the ziggurats?

That's one school of thought anyway, but there are other examples of pyramid-like structures in the middle east, which could have been inspired by the Egyptians, or vice versa.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Dec 2019 at 17:03
So, the Mayans are thousands of years after Mesopotamian Ziggurats, Egyptian Ziggurats and the Great Pyramids(2200-500BC). Ziggurats don't seem to serve the purpose of a pyramid, it's a dwelling place for a god possibly or a place for sacrifice.  Ziggurats made differently than pyramids, mud bricks and without internal chambers. 

8-9 thousand Years Before Present- rock that is arguably blade cut in Peru, used for building. I don't know of blade cut rock building earlier than Sacsayhuaman on North or South America. Correct me, it's changing all the time.

In So America evidence of building is swallowed by sink holes and jungles have kept some places inaccessible. It's easier these days to find the sites by satellite. The date for Clovis people at 1300 YBP has been changed this year to 1700 YBP with the discovery of human remains in the Pacific Northwest. And the 'out of Africa' routes can't be considered settled science, none of it is yet. 
To say nothing of the Australian Pyramids!

The town of Gympie, at Tin Can Bay, north of Brisbane, Queensland, is the unlikely site of a pyramid complex. The first Europeans to come into the area in the 1830's learned of them from the now extinct Kabi speaking people of Gympie, known then as the Dhamuri. According to the Aboriginals, brown skinned, blue eyed, blond haired beings wearing dolphin pendants came from Orion long ago and built pyramids and temple sites, but water covered them all.

The ruins were taboo to them. Settlers took the stones of the pyramids and other buildings and used them as foundation stones for the main street of Gympie and the construction of buildings, including the local church, which still stands. There were stone statues like the Easter Island statues and also animal statues. These have since been destroyed or are hidden, but photos and sketches of them remain from the first white man to come into the area. Even the tunnels under Gympie were dynamited.

All but one of the Pyramids was bulldozed into the ocean by the army in the 1950's and the lone survivor remains on private land with a strict "no trespassing policy. The Pyramid is 100 foot high and designed with a series of terraces up to 4 feet tall and eight feet wide. The army sealed the entrance in the 1930's after investigating reports of cattle wandering into the pyramid, when an opening was still accessible, and never coming out. No reports or findings are available.

In recent years, according to locals, the owner has attempted to destroy the pyramid in the hopes of discouraging visitors to the site. Artifacts have survived including the 'Gympie Ape', which was dug up in 1966 and is thought to be a statue of the Egyptian God Thoth, who was often portrayed as an ape, and another resembling Ganesha from Indian mythology. Egyptian God Thoth is clutching the Tau or the Cross of Life. This statuette is badly weathered with age. Thoth was the god of writing and wisdom, depicted as an ape by the Egyptians until about 1000 BC when he became an Ibis-headed human bodied deity who recorded the judgment of the souls of Amenti, the after world. Thoth's symbol was the papyrus flower.

All of this is speculation.


https://www.crystalinks.com/pyramidaustralia.html



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Dec 2019 at 02:25
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

From where the sun now stands, I will fight no more forever.(Chief Joseph)

Pyramids are irrelevant to Pyramids Thread-pass it on.
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