| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Reliable Sources
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Reliable Sources

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Reliable Sources
    Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 02:43
Several American members have taken me to task over sources that I've quoted in relation to their new President.

For my own education, and to obtain a perhaps more balanced view, what are the most unbiased and accurate media sources in the USA.

Would it be the New York Times, for instance?

What about all of the talk about "fake news" and "alternative facts"? Is this really happening, and to what extent.

Can I have a balanced and unbiased reply please?


I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
wolfhnd View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 816
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 03:04
There are no unbiased people thus no unbiased sources. Deception by omission is something that can only be surmounted by extensive research.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 04:05
On the whole Fox News is conservative cable news- 
CNN /MSNBC and network news counters with Democrat talking points.

Newspapers-
Washington Times mostly conservative, 
Wall Street Journal mostly conservative. 

Washington Post mostly liberal. 
New York Times is liberal- 
New York Post mostly liberal

Old survey, hope it helps.




The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 05:23
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

There are no unbiased people thus no unbiased sources. Deception by omission is something that can only be surmounted by extensive research.

 
Isn't there anyone in the US, in your opinion, who is prepared to give a balanced view of the events taking place?


I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 15:10
The method I use is multiple sourcing. BBC for world News, National Geographic does news from Asia. I watch our local news and listen to conservative radio and watch conservative Fox News. If you are getting one anonymous source after another, IMHO it's not for real.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017 at 23:39
What do ya want?  Someone to tell it to ya like it is?
Or someone you can learn from?

I suggested that you look at Shields and Brooks, they are left of center, and right of center respectively.  More importantly, listening to them over time you can get a nuanced view.

Anybody who can tell you anything is going to have some stake in the game, and thus not be _unbiased_.  The question is not whether you can find someone who is unbiased, the question is how good are they in explaining things, including things they don't necessarily agree with.  Do they demonize the opposition (however they're framed), or do they explain them as dynamic human beings which have motives both conscious and unconscious, rational and emotional?  Everybody always thinks that they're doing right, (and the other guy is doing wrong).  The question is just who represents your views, but also who can open up your perspective, so that you understand the other guy.  Note, understanding is not the same as accepting.  If you properly understand Stalin, you wouldn't accept him, and if you accepted him, he is probably too big, too mythic for you to understand him.  One the other hand, Stalin reveals something monstrous about reality and human beings, it is probably important for people to woefully accept that and try to understand what that means, rather than hide their head in the sand.

If you want someone to tell ya like "it is."  Look at Rush Limbaugh and become a "dittohead."  Some who when Rush says something, echoes what he says, and let's him do the thinking.  Don't get me wrong, he is clever in a certain bombastic way.  I enjoyed listening to him when I was driving every day to the people's Republic of Boulder.  He was pro-NAFTA then, I wonder if he has flipped in the latest political climate.


Edited by franciscosan - 27 Feb 2017 at 23:45
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 00:55
Quote What do ya want?  Someone to tell it to ya like it is?

Could be a refreshing change.
I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 01:40
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

What do ya want?  Someone to tell it to ya like it is?
Or someone you can learn from?

I suggested that you look at Shields and Brooks, they are left of center, and right of center respectively.  More importantly, listening to them over time you can get a nuanced view.

Anybody who can tell you anything is going to have some stake in the game, and thus not be _unbiased_.  The question is not whether you can find someone who is unbiased, the question is how good are they in explaining things, including things they don't necessarily agree with.  Do they demonize the opposition (however they're framed), or do they explain them as dynamic human beings which have motives both conscious and unconscious, rational and emotional?  Everybody always thinks that they're doing right, (and the other guy is doing wrong).  The question is just who represents your views, but also who can open up your perspective, so that you understand the other guy.  Note, understanding is not the same as accepting.  If you properly understand Stalin, you wouldn't accept him, and if you accepted him, he is probably too big, too mythic for you to understand him.  One the other hand, Stalin reveals something monstrous about reality and human beings, it is probably important for people to woefully accept that and try to understand what that means, rather than hide their head in the sand.

If you want someone to tell ya like "it is."  Look at Rush Limbaugh and become a "dittohead."  Some who when Rush says something, echoes what he says, and let's him do the thinking.  Don't get me wrong, he is clever in a certain bombastic way.  I enjoyed listening to him when I was driving every day to the people's Republic of Boulder.  He was pro-NAFTA then, I wonder if he has flipped in the latest political climate.

I have exactly what I want, multiple sources and opposing views. I listen to opposing views as I outlined in my response to toyomotor. 

I know the definition of understanding and..um, wait..yes got accepting down too.

Thanks for explaining that Stalin was a bad boy.

I like listening to Rush very much. If I can forgive Hillary for having a KKK recruiter as her mentor, I can get past Rush supporting NAFTA.

But thanks for telling me how to think, I know it's your job as a democrat! Tongue 
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 01:45
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Quote What do ya want?  Someone to tell it to ya like it is?

Could be a refreshing change.

It's a brave new world, they just dump it all in your lap. Throw it against the wall and if it sticks, spaghetti! 

It's possibly true. Whatever that means.

Network news from 20 years ago had an agenda but now information is at our fingertips. So the battle is on to see who can wade through the most bull.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 01:55
It seems that, world wide, truth is becoming a rare commodity, especially in politics.

But, in truth we can all tell when politicians are lying, their lips move.

Just read a report on Trumps 100 lies to date. Don't know how truthful/accurate it is, but it looks right.

Perhaps it's time we got back to more of what this forum is really all about, History.




Edited by toyomotor - 28 Feb 2017 at 01:56
I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2017 at 23:30
I don't really have a problem with NAFTA, I had a problem with the drivel of an argument that Limbaugh made at the time.  I don't quite remember the argument, but I do remember it was a circular argument.  A therefore B, B therefore A.  But, I did listen to him for awhile.

I don't want people to consider themselves 'ditto heads.'  I prefer that they think for themselves, and accept authorities with some skepticism.  I am a Republican, not a Democrat, although I generally like the underdog, the true underdog, not the one that the media spoon-feeds to us. 

I would think that there was a time period when it would have been hard finding a democrat in the South, without some connection to the KKK.  that does not excuse it, but it would explain it, our politics tends to be Twiddle Dee or Twiddle Dum, everything is funneled into a choice between two opposing.....   

The truth is not set up in apposition/ opposition to falsehood.  The truth is revelation, not an either/ or thang. 
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 00:33
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't really have a problem with NAFTA, I had a problem with the drivel of an argument that Limbaugh made at the time.  I don't quite remember the argument, but I do remember it was a circular argument.  A therefore B, B therefore A.  But, I did listen to him for awhile.

I don't want people to consider themselves 'ditto heads.'  I prefer that they think for themselves, and accept authorities with some skepticism.  I am a Republican, not a Democrat, although I generally like the underdog, the true underdog, not the one that the media spoon-feeds to us. 

I would think that there was a time period when it would have been hard finding a democrat in the South, without some connection to the KKK.  that does not excuse it, but it would explain it, our politics tends to be Twiddle Dee or Twiddle Dum, everything is funneled into a choice between two opposing.....   

The truth is not set up in apposition/ opposition to falsehood.  The truth is revelation, not an either/ or thang. 

For the benefit of an outlander, would you please explain what you're talking about?

The OP was about accurate, unbiased sources of informaton, especially through the media.

I don't understand what all the talk about "ditto heads" and the KKK is all about, nor the relevance of political party membership in the south.

Are you trying to spam us?


I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 03:22
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't really have a problem with NAFTA, I had a problem with the drivel of an argument that Limbaugh made at the time.  I don't quite remember the argument, but I do remember it was a circular argument.  A therefore B, B therefore A.  But, I did listen to him for awhile.

I don't want people to consider themselves 'ditto heads.'  I prefer that they think for themselves, and accept authorities with some skepticism.  I am a Republican, not a Democrat, although I generally like the underdog, the true underdog, not the one that the media spoon-feeds to us. 

I would think that there was a time period when it would have been hard finding a democrat in the South, without some connection to the KKK.  that does not excuse it, but it would explain it, our politics tends to be Twiddle Dee or Twiddle Dum, everything is funneled into a choice between two opposing.....   

The truth is not set up in apposition/ opposition to falsehood.  The truth is revelation, not an either/ or thang. 
I consider myself someone who laughs their ass off when Rush rips democrats, republicans who vote democrat and the media.

Who did you accuse of the worst kind of racism? Media aka democratic party and it's 2017 my friend.

The closest we get to "truth" whatever that is, may be a revelation but I see no reason why it couldn't come from examining relationships.



Edited by Vanuatu - 01 Mar 2017 at 03:23
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 04:01
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I don't really have a problem with NAFTA, I had a problem with the drivel of an argument that Limbaugh made at the time.  I don't quite remember the argument, but I do remember it was a circular argument.  A therefore B, B therefore A.  But, I did listen to him for awhile.

I don't want people to consider themselves 'ditto heads.'  I prefer that they think for themselves, and accept authorities with some skepticism.  I am a Republican, not a Democrat, although I generally like the underdog, the true underdog, not the one that the media spoon-feeds to us. 

I would think that there was a time period when it would have been hard finding a democrat in the South, without some connection to the KKK.  that does not excuse it, but it would explain it, our politics tends to be Twiddle Dee or Twiddle Dum, everything is funneled into a choice between two opposing.....   

The truth is not set up in apposition/ opposition to falsehood.  The truth is revelation, not an either/ or thang. 

For the benefit of an outlander, would you please explain what you're talking about?

The OP was about accurate, unbiased sources of informaton, especially through the media.

I don't understand what all the talk about "ditto heads" and the KKK is all about, nor the relevance of political party membership in the south.

Are you trying to spam us?


Sorry toyomotor, but didn't drift too far. I said I love to listen to Rush Limbaugh, he is a conservative radio talk guy and his fans are known as "Ditto Heads" bc they call in and say "Mega Dittos Rush!" meaning they agree with everything he says. For the record I have never done this. He does have a huge audience and does disseminate news, information and opinion. 

NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement:
The North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA, is a three-country accord negotiated by the governments of Canada, Mexico, and the United States that entered into force in January 1994.
Bill Clinton was President. 

The idea was to create a system by which all three countries would benefit in the form of jobs and commerce and lowered the cost of doing business for the countries involved. It's again a question of which truth do you believe. It was supported by both parties but did have opponents. 

Like Ross Perot (presidential candidate '92 &'96) he was kind of like Trump. He warned that the wage differential in Mexico would cause American jobs to fly south. Which they pretty much have done.
So if conservative Limbaugh thought it was a good thing that turned out not so good then I guess liberals take some unearned pride in that miscalculation.

The south is the birthplace of the Klu Klux Klan and was a bulwark of the democratic party. Most people don't know (the fake book crowd, Black Lives Matter, democrats) or don't care that Hillary's mentor was Senator Robert Byrd, longest serving senator in US history and- KKK member and recruiter. In fairness to Byrd he wrote an apologia and publicly showed remorse for that association. The irony is during the campaign Hillary called Trump supporters the "basket of deplorables" racist, homophobic xenophobic etc.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 04:49
Oh well, back to the Australian newspapers and TV News.

I suppose I shouldn't have questioned the bias of the US media, because I still don't know who to trust.


I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
General
General


Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 938
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017 at 13:26
Trust yourself. Smile

If you think Trump is an ass then he is one. End of story. I don't think that way but could change my mind depending on what he actually does.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2017 at 08:18
I think the mainstream media in Australia is fairly unbiased. No doubt some of the media jump on particular bandwagons at times, and help push that barrow.

Compared to certain British and US papers, I think our main outlets are accurate, because if they were to put out "alternative facts" we'd all know about it pretty damn quick, and they'd be lambasted.

The other point is of course as that we have strict Media Cross Ownership Laws, which prevent anyone from taking control of the media in all of it's formats-TV and print, or for that matter holding any majority shares across the formats.


Edited by toyomotor - 10 Mar 2017 at 14:56
I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 02:49
I think that the American media (as if that is one thing), are pretty careful with the facts.  As far as interpretation of the facts, they are not necessarily that sophisticated.  They may think that they are sophisticated and sharp, but if they were, then (conservative) commentators would have nowhere to go.  Commentators (I am thinking about Brooks and Krauthammer) tend to show that analysis of the news is incomplete or, (in the case of Limbaugh and talk radio) the analysis is lacking.

But with how rapid the media (online, etc) addresses stuff, stuff doesn't always get screened properly.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Mar 2017 at 06:30
franciscosan:

You've raised an interesting point.

Should journalists attempt to interpret news, or just report available facts?

I would have thought that interpretation should be left to the experts.


I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 02:39
Reporting the facts requires some interpretation.  Journalists have to know their topics in order to judge what is relevant and what is not relevant, and thereby craft various facts and quotes into a story.

Commentators are those who can take it one or two steps further by supplying more context for what reporters are reporting.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 05:00
Observe, report disseminate!

Interpret what is relevant to their particular story, OK, but don't attempt to interpret differences in scientific opinion.

I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
franciscosan View Drop Down
Sultan
Sultan


Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Location: Littleton CO
Status: Offline
Points: 2122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 21:36
Why not interpret differences in scientific opinion?  As long as they portray their argument accurately, including its limitations.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 03:39
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Why not interpret differences in scientific opinion?  As long as they portray their argument accurately, including its limitations.

What I'm getting at in my own bumbling fashion is that I believe that too much "poetic license" is taken in journalism these days. That's why it's very difficult to determine which overseas news sources are fair and unbiased as well as accurate.

For example, the broadsheets have traditionally been portrayed as "establishment" whereas the tabloids have been described as "scandal rags" for their often completely false reporting.

I know which is which in Australia, but not overseas.


I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
toyomotor View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2014
Location: Tasmania, AUST.
Status: Offline
Points: 3769
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2017 at 14:59
franciscosan

Thanks for the discussion, I'm still none the wiser as to whom I should trust among the American media so I'll have to take pot luck, and you can shoot me down again when I'm wrong.Thumbs Up
I often wonder why I try.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.090 seconds.