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Religion and clothes.

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    Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 00:05
Somewhat related to the topic of religion and images is the topic religion and clothes. The relation of religion and clothes is probably even more complicated and charged. In many cases the religious leaders (and other proponents of religion, or people influenced by religious ideas) dictate certain kind of clothing for their adherents and prohibits others. Unfortunately they have a tendency to do so also when it concerns other people who are not followers of their religion. This have lead to many situations when people have been punished or harrassed for not complying to a dress code that belongs to a belief system they do not even belong to.
 
So clothes can be a marker of religious identity, but also a way of opress people in the name of religion.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 03:52
Nonsense. But this getting too boring. When you come up with something worthwhile I might pay sattention again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 04:54
Not only have these antics become tedious but, perhaps, the fact that these ridiculous posturings coming at the whim of just a single individual signals changes in format need be taken in order to thwart these ridiculous attempts at mental terrorism! Perhaps a reminder on the C of C that governs the forum is in order since, apparently, ridicule has not had the desired cathartic results when it comes to sillyness and Carcharadon.
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 11 Feb 2011 at 04:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 07:31
School and work seem far more effective at enforcing dress codes than religion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 08:41
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

School and work seem far more effective at enforcing dress codes than religion.


Clap

let me also add... night clubs Smile



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 20:41
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

School and work seem far more effective at enforcing dress codes than religion.
 
Oh yes, school and work also does their bit. But in some places religion has a very strong influence on dress code. One can for example mention Sudan where both Christians and people belonging to traditional religions have been foced to comply to muslim dress code. One can also mention Latin America where amerindians on different occasions have been forced or coerced by missionaires and other representatives for the western culture to wear western style clothes since their traditional clothes (or lack of clothes) have been deemed improper.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 20:58
One should also mention the Swedish military and their outlandish demands for the wearing of uncomfortable synthetics.Evil Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 21:14
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

One should also mention the Swedish military and their outlandish demands for the wearing of uncomfortable synthetics.Evil Smile
 
At least they are not imposing their style of clothes on non military people.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 21:19

Regarding religion and clothes. There are ofcourse also interesting aspects about it, as studying the symbolics of clothes and garments in religious and ritual settings.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 22:03
Clothing style is significant to all kind of groups. From emo to ravers, not just religion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Feb 2011 at 22:12
Originally posted by Flipper Flipper wrote:

Clothing style is significant to all kind of groups. From emo to ravers, not just religion. 
 
Yes, thats true. Perhaps though in religion clothing takes on another dimension, the divine or spiritual.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 14:01
I am just simply awaiting the posting of another thread: How the introduction of personal hygiene by missionaries is an act of cultural subversion threatening the destruction of the Xingu peoples.
 
One conclusion is inevitable however: Carch certainly knows how to get each and everyone of us to become adept disciples of the Dark Side. I wonder, though, if when he read the Dune titles he never made the connection between the names that pour forth in the books with religious symbolism and traditional social structures of a certain people?


Edited by drgonzaga - 12 Feb 2011 at 14:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Feb 2011 at 18:43
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

One conclusion is inevitable however: Carch certainly knows how to get each and everyone of us to become adept disciples of the Dark Side. 


Big smileLOL



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 00:18
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

How the introduction of personal hygiene by missionaries is an act of cultural subversion threatening the destruction of the Xingu peoples.
 
Well, in many places the missionaries actually introduced clothes and habits that became a threat to health and personal hygiene. Also the prohibition of certain clothes (or nakedness) was a part of a strategy to destroy the cultural integrity of the native peoples. Often by forbidding or hinder the use of certain clothes and adornment they also attacked customs, beliefs and practices that were associated to those clothes and adornments.
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 15 Feb 2011 at 00:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 00:23
You never stop your stupidity, Carcha.
Who named you an expert in New World peoples was wrong.

Actually, the only natives that woke nude in the Americas were those primitives of the Amazon. The rest used clothes!


Edited by pinguin - 15 Feb 2011 at 00:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 00:27
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

You never stop your stupidity, Carcha.
Who named you an expert in New World peoples was wrong.

Actually, the only natives that woke nude in the Americas were those primitives of the Amazon. The rest used clothes!
 
I talked about clothes also among Native Americans. And some of the clothes and garments were indeed opposed by the invaders, together with costumes (such as dances) and beliefs associated with those clothes). To attack clothes is one of the stragegies of coloniaists to attack the cultural integrity of the peoples they try to subjugate.


Edited by Carcharodon - 15 Feb 2011 at 00:28
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Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
I talked about clothes also among Native Americans. And some of the clothes and garments were indeed opposed by the invaders, together with costumes (such as dances) and beliefs associated with those clothes). To attack clothes is one of the stragegies of coloniaists to attack the cultural integrity of the peoples they try to subjugate.


What would they be?

You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:00
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

 
I talked about clothes also among Native Americans. And some of the clothes and garments were indeed opposed by the invaders, together with costumes (such as dances) and beliefs associated with those clothes). To attack clothes is one of the stragegies of coloniaists to attack the cultural integrity of the peoples they try to subjugate.


What would they be?

You have no idea what you are talking about, as usual.

 
There are indeeed examples of missionaries (and other representatives for the so called Christian civilisation) opposing indigenous clothes, traditions, art and other cultural expressions just because they deemed them pagan, and even diabolic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:09
Just baloney, as usual. You speak your prejudices without any sustain.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:20
Well one can just exemplify with the Vaupes Caqueta area in Colombia where missionaries in recent times have been opposed to the making of traditional bark cloth masks, paintings and dresses for ritual purposes, instead trying to force them (especially those children who have ended up in missionary schools) to make pictures of Jesus, Maria, soldiers, Colombian flags and other so called civilized things. At the same time some missionaries steal or buy cheap work of art that are later sold on the international market for large sums of money, revenues that are not going back to the Amerindians.
 
One can also see the pattern of destruction and prohibition in older times, as in the forbidding of the Kashina dance costumes and dances in the context of colonial Spanish New Mexixco. Even Spanish officials who tried to allow the Kashina dances and dresses could get themselves into trouble.
 
This is just two examples of many.
 
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 15 Feb 2011 at 01:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:35
Well, I agree all Protestant missionaries should be send back to North America and Europe. They are contaminating the region.

Then, the Catholic church should return the silver.

And then, we should close the regions, so no more Europeans come to the Americas no more. Never again.

That way perhaps eco-lunatics will leave the region alone.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:42
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Well, I agree all Protestant missionaries should be send back to North America and Europe. They are contaminating the region.

Then, the Catholic church should return the silver.
 
Both the catholic church and the protestant missionaries should end its meddling into peoples with other religions.

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

And then, we should close the regions, so no more Europeans come to the Americas no more. Never again.
 
And then the majority Latin Americans should clear out of the areas that still belongs to the indigenous peoples.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:51
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

... 
And then the majority Latin Americans should clear out of the areas that still belongs to the indigenous peoples.


Confused

Which are those areas?

Aren't you aware that without the will of Latin American countries Indigenous peoples wouldn't have ANY area left? The local goverments have put the legal systems and armies in place to protect the displacement of Indigenous peoples by wild merchants.

In my own country, the government keeps buying back lands for the Mapuche and other indigenous peoples, and it is the goverment who encourage the preservation of arts and traditions.

As usual, you have no idea about what you are talking about.







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 01:57
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Which are those areas?
 
There are several areas in for example the Amazon where loggers, oil companies and other exploiting companies, ranchers, settlers, mineral hunters, farmers are invading right now. They ougth to immediately clear out those places.
Study the home page of Survival international, there you will see several examples.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 02:00
Indeed. There are many problems in Brazil as yet. You should ask the Brazilian government that is better informed than British financed "Survival".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 04:27
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Well, I agree all Protestant missionaries should be send back to North America and Europe. They are contaminating the region.

Then, the Catholic church should return the silver.
 
Both the catholic church and the protestant missionaries should end its meddling into peoples with other religions.
Why should they have fewer rights to meddle than you and your friends?  Are you claimiing some sort of superiority over Christians? They should only be second class citizens? Or what?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 08:28
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Why should they have fewer rights to meddle than you and your friends?  Are you claimiing some sort of superiority over Christians? They should only be second class citizens? Or what?


Let's see. Christian misionaries should be controlled, given the fact they don't control by themselves.

When I see those protestant preachers going to the Mapuches, and forcing theirs Machis (shamans) to replace theirs Kultruns (Spiritual drums) by ordinary Bibles, I get the homicidal idea of burning all those missionaries on the pire. LOL Just imagine replacing something unique like a Kultrun by an ordinary mass produced product of the West: a Bible!

I don't see why Christians should have any priviledge with respect to any other superstition. Christianism, Islam, Taoism or Shamanism are all supertitious belief system. They should be treated by what they are.


Edited by pinguin - 15 Feb 2011 at 08:29
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Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


And then, we should close the regions, so no more Europeans come to the Americas no more. Never again.

That way perhaps eco-lunatics will leave the region alone.



 
Latin Americans should all clear out and leave the place for the llamas and jeopards. No more any Asians to America! Never again!


Edited by Styrbiorn - 15 Feb 2011 at 08:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 08:43
It looks like we have another thread that more properly belongs in the Minefield than as a topic worthy of serious discussion.

Edited by drgonzaga - 15 Feb 2011 at 13:21
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2011 at 08:49
Originally posted by Styrbiorn Styrbiorn wrote:


Latin Americans should all clear out and leave the place for the llamas and jeopards. No more any Asians to America! Never again!


Latin Americans don't need Europe anymore. Just leave us alone, and forget our nature. We are going to destroy it to create a marvellous technological utopia. Wink
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