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Rome's most dangerous enemy

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 01:59
Would anyone consider the idea that in fact Rome was it's own worst enemy?

The relentless competition for power among the upper classes, greed and corruption, seem to me to be factors which cnnot be overlooked. Let's face it, the Roman Empire fell, not due to some all conquering invaders, but because of it's endless in-fighting.

While the senate took it's eye off the ball, those in power in other countries were taking advantage of it.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 04:26
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


Vanuatu, I don't know what you are talking about:P

yea I see I misunderstood you but even after multiple readings the statement about christianity seems out of place.  

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Orthodoxy rejects reincarnation and karma as far as I know.  Cathars were gnostic, maybe they believed in reincarnation, in any case they (I believe) rejected the material world, and were apocalyptic.  The crusade against them probably fit into their apocalyptic world view, kind of like the branch Davidians down in Waco against the bureau of Alcohol, Firearms and Tobacco (ATF).  Just because they are wacko (both the Cathars and the branch Davidians) doesn't mean they should be exterminated, but on the other hand, it is hard to see how it would have played out differently, given their apocalyptic perspective.  People blame Christians for apocalyptic viewpoint as something that undermined the Roman empire, but Orthodoxy has that in its background, and does not dwell on it.  People feel sorry for the Gnostics and the Cathars, but they were much of the problem, not the solution.
Yea that's another topic. I'm sure the Cathars deserved to be murdered by the Christians. :P


Edited by Vanuatu - 17 Apr 2017 at 04:31
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 04:29
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Would anyone consider the idea that in fact Rome was it's own worst enemy?

The relentless competition for power among the upper classes, greed and corruption, seem to me to be factors which cnnot be overlooked. Let's face it, the Roman Empire fell, not due to some all conquering invaders, but because of it's endless in-fighting.

While the senate took it's eye off the ball, those in power in other countries were taking advantage of it.

Someone mentioned it early on in the thread. But then we are all capable of being our own worst enemy.
Rome was too divided to stand against the barbarians.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2017 at 04:42
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Would anyone consider the idea that in fact Rome was it's own worst enemy?

The relentless competition for power among the upper classes, greed and corruption, seem to me to be factors which cnnot be overlooked. Let's face it, the Roman Empire fell, not due to some all conquering invaders, but because of it's endless in-fighting.

While the senate took it's eye off the ball, those in power in other countries were taking advantage of it.

 [quote] But then we are all capable of being our own worst enemy.


You might like to read my post about 60's music. Your comment above sums it up.
I often wonder why I try.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Apr 2017 at 12:11

Quote caldrail, could you tell me about Libianus a little, just from what google comes up with, he is a 4th century AD sophist, and he mentions the Sassanids, who I gather are ethnically Persian?

Sorry I didn't have time to answer this yesterday. Well, as an outline, google gives us this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libanius

 

The Sassanids were Persians ethnically speaking, being named after a priest according to an Osprey book (Rome's Enemies 3 Parthians and Sassanid Persians .

 

Quote I think the Sassanids, while maybe the fiercest foes of the Romans, were never an existential threat to the Romans.  Same with the Parthians, although I am a little vague about when the Sassanids were in relationship to the Parthians.  The Persian Empire, "as such," ended with the conquests of Alexander of Macedon.

Never an existential threat? They invaded Rome's outer territories more than once and only significant Roman victories early on prevented further Sassanid expansion. Nonetheless war between Rome and Persia would erupt from time to time, usually because the Persian ruler was getting ambitious. They remained a threat into the Byzantine era and were conquered by Islamic arabs in the seventh century after a period of sudden decline.

 
The Parthian Empire had occupied much the same territory - and had been just as threatening, as we note the disaster at Carrhae - The Sassanid Empire took over the same peoples with a harsher culture.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Apr 2017 at 02:09
Interesting reading about Libanius, I hadn't heard of him before.  Sounds like a pagan Hellene sophist (rhetorician) contemporary with Julian the Apostate, but not necessarily anti-Christian.

Right, it sounds like the Sassanians where never an existential threat, at best they threatened to _become_ an existential threat.
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