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Sassanids: Middle East Rulers

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 10:55
Aran is a name we use for southern parts (Mughan), wich means Lowland. So please stop lying already, naming whole of the territority as Aran. :)

We even have a sub-division like Aranli (Lowlander) & Dagli (Mountaiiner).

And best answer to your absurd claim.








Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 07 Aug 2009 at 11:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 11:16
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev Emil_Diniyev wrote:

Aran is a name we use for southern parts (Mughan), wich means Lowland. So please stop lying already, naming whole of the territority as Aran. :)

We even have a sub-division like Aranli (Lowlander) & Dagli (Mountaiiner).

And best answer to your absurd claim.




Your map is really an Azerbaijani one isn't it? Wink. Nice try! is that your best shot?
"Turn yourself not away from three best things: Good Thought, Good Word, and Good Deed" Zoroaster.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 11:19
Its actually made by some Iranian. :)

Iran have always been disorted our history and seems like continuing to do so. Especially for the ambitions of Caspian Sea. :). Now, isn't it absurd that the Fars from Shiraz is trying to claim something over a Caspian nation?


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 07 Aug 2009 at 11:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 11:25
Trying to change the name of Alov (Azeri) GasField to "Alborz" on Caspian Sea. :)

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=103039


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 07 Aug 2009 at 11:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 11:39
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev Emil_Diniyev wrote:

Aran is a name we use for southern parts (Mughan), wich means Lowland. So please stop lying already, naming whole of the territority as Aran. :)
Caucasian Albania (from Latin Albānia, Greek: Ἀλβανία, Albanía ; in Armenian: Աղուանք, arghuank, in Parthian: Ardhan, in Persian: Arran , in Arabic: Al Ran was an ancient country and region that existed on the territory of present-day Republic of Azerbaijan and southern Dagestan. The name "Albania" denotes "mountainous land".

Check this out now.




 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 11:48
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev Emil_Diniyev wrote:

Its actually made by some Iranian. :)

Iran have always been disorted our history and seems like continuing to do so. Especially for the ambitions of Caspian Sea. :). Now, isn't it absurd that the Fars from Shiraz is trying to claim something over a Caspian nation?
Look at your history and then you will find out. Try to claim Zoroaster, Babak Khoramdin, Nizami, ... as Turks and many other funny attempts. Now tell me who is claiming whose? by the way this thread is about history of Sassanids not other unrelated topic such as current policy of Iran or Azerbaijan government about Caspian oilfied or so. Please start a new thread about this matters and I will be glad to discuss with you in that thread. So from now on please post only related matter regarding to the main topic of this thread.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 13:17
Originally posted by Suren Suren wrote:

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

"Iran" is a modern novelty anyway.
Please enlighten us more about this sentence.Wink
 
Not to sound the clarion of our late, lamented Shah of Shahs (the artist formerly known as "Cyrus" and not any historical figure) but there did not exist a political entity known as "Iran" until 1935 as the then ruler of Persia, Reza Khan--who had overthrown the last of the Qajar dynasts in 1925--decided that as part of his modernization and industrialization plans a "break" with the past was needed and what better way to do so than an appeal to mythology (as well as the vocabulary of those nifty totalitarian modernizers a bit to the West). Voila, a "new" state was born, Iran, nothing more than a cognate for "Land of the Aryans"--after all had not the Achaemenids proclaimed themselves thus as a "people": the Ariya. And was not Reza Khan the Pahlavi? Megalomania can only go so far yet the label was also convenient in terms of the Parthians as well in view of all those nice inscriptions left by Ardashir. However, what everyone seems to forget as far as a political entity is concerned, there was no jurisdiction known as Iran until that momentous date. Or has everyone forgotten the snickers in historical circles when Mohammad Reza Shah held that fancy bash honoring the 2500 anniversary of "his" domain.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 13:39
Originally posted by Suren Suren wrote:

Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev Emil_Diniyev wrote:

Aran is a name we use for southern parts (Mughan), wich means Lowland. So please stop lying already, naming whole of the territority as Aran. :)
Caucasian Albania (from Latin Albānia, Greek: Ἀλβανία, Albanía ; in Armenian: Աղուանք, arghuank, in Parthian: Ardhan, in Persian: Arran , in Arabic: Al Ran was an ancient country and region that existed on the territory of present-day Republic of Azerbaijan and southern Dagestan. The name "Albania" denotes "mountainous land".

Check this out now.




 



To undertand how ridicolous are this, you need to check Albanias borders. It were way larger then that, especially to north. And the other lame thing is "Shirvan" there. For GODS sake, Shirvan during time of Christian Albania? LOL


Edited by Emil_Diniyev - 07 Aug 2009 at 13:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 13:42
So are you saying Iran is just a fabricated name which has been chosen by Reza Shah? Are you familiar with Iranian literature? Historical books? Iran is an old name for this land mentioned many times. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 13:44
Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev Emil_Diniyev wrote:

Originally posted by Suren Suren wrote:

Originally posted by Emil_Diniyev Emil_Diniyev wrote:

Aran is a name we use for southern parts (Mughan), wich means Lowland. So please stop lying already, naming whole of the territority as Aran. :)
Caucasian Albania (from Latin Albānia, Greek: Ἀλβανία, Albanía ; in Armenian: Աղուանք, arghuank, in Parthian: Ardhan, in Persian: Arran , in Arabic: Al Ran was an ancient country and region that existed on the territory of present-day Republic of Azerbaijan and southern Dagestan. The name "Albania" denotes "mountainous land".

Check this out now.




 



To undertand how ridicolous are this, you need to check Albanias borders. It were way larger then that, especially to north. And the other lame thing is "Shirvan" there. For GODS sake, Shirvan during time of Christian Albania? LOL
for your information look at the date at the map. Caucuasian Albania was a country which expand or shrink according to the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 2009 at 19:52
Suren and Emil Diniyev -- You both are rather offtopic. Please start a new topic if you wish to explore the intricacies of modern Azerbajian. This topic should be concentrated upon the Sassanids (and yes, this does mean for you to leave later Persia/Iran out of it).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2009 at 00:40
Dr.  you would do well to research the history of Iran without repeating the tripe on the CIA fact book.  What do you think Iranians called Iran before 1935? Persia?  No.

The Sassanid name for their country was Iran.   You can see the name Iran mentioned many times in Karnamak e Ardashir e Papakan.* They are the source of the name.  Cho Iran nabaashad tane man na-baad - Shah Nameh (Ferdowsi) circa 1000 AD





*English Translation by Charles F Horne:
http://www.iranchamber.com/history/sassanids/karnamak_ardeshir_papakan1.php




Edited by Zagros - 08 Aug 2009 at 00:45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2009 at 00:40
Emil: Darband is an Iranian fortress built by the Sassanids, the Sassanids were one of the most important and powerful empires of their time.  Owning land in the Caucasus was nothing in effort for them. That it lies in another country today is irrelevant to this fact.  Azeri Turks were not even an ethnic group when Darband was built.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Emil_Diniyev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2009 at 01:03
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Emil: Darband is an Iranian fortress built by the Sassanids, the Sassanids were one of the most important and powerful empires of their time.  Owning land in the Caucasus was nothing in effort for them. That it lies in another country today is irrelevant to this fact.  Azeri Turks were not even an ethnic group when Darband was built.


It is an ethnic Azeri area, even tho its not in Azerbaijan now, because Csar gave it as a gift to Dagestanis.

Like said, stop disorting our history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2009 at 01:46
Sassanid Iran: AD - 226-650 ; Republic of Azerbaijan: 1991 - present

What it is now is irrelevant, we are talking about history, not current affairs.  Take your ethno nationalism somewhere else and stop being a moron.

By your moronic logic then Roman ruins in Turkey are not Roman.




Edited by Zagros - 08 Aug 2009 at 01:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rider Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2009 at 07:15
Zagros, please be so kind and not feed the troll? Thanks,
 
What's always interested me personally is whether the Sassanid organization of their realm was similar to the earlier Achaemenid ways or not? They had to be very strong to face off against Rome for centuries (and quite successfully)...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Praetor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 03:49
Well I thought I'd revive this interesting thread with some intriguing articles (in the spirit of the earlier posts about Derbent) a friend from uni sent me recently. I'm not sure If someone has posted about this already but There was an incredibly large wall built in the East of the Persian Empire (one of the largest ever built) to protect its territories (it is believed) from the aggression of the Steppe Tribesman known as the "White Huns", Archaelogists have estimated that said wall was garrisoned by "between 15,000 and 36,000 Soldiers" barraked in a bit over 30 forts, It is still uncertain quite how long the wall was as it seems to have stretched into what is now part of the Caspian sea, as water levels have risen significantly since the walls construction. Almost as impressive is the giant ditch and series of canals providing the soldiers and builders with access to water along most of the length of this 195KM (+?) wall.

This article is much, much shorter than the other one and is to my mind clearly based on it:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080218155534.htm

And this be the Longer article (which was the one I qouted btw):
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&pid=gmail&attid=0.2&thid=1234dfc45f58cc5a&mt=application%2Fpdf

Regards, Praetor.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Prince of Zeila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 07:30
Originally posted by rider rider wrote:

Zagros, please be so kind and not feed the troll? Thanks,
 
What's always interested me personally is whether the Sassanid organization of their realm was similar to the earlier Achaemenid ways or not? They had to be very strong to face off against Rome for centuries (and quite successfully)...
 
Achaemenids were more an enlightened universal Empire where multi-culturalism was glorified and protected, the Sassanids however were less tolerant than their ancestors and in terms of military might and engineering the Romans in the Sassanids saw themselves. The similarity between the Achaemenids and Sassanids is the centralization of their realms(compared to the loosely held together Parthian Empire)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SPQR Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 06:04
I will say that the Sassanids had some baddass cavalry units that would make leggionnaire releive themselves seeing them charging lol. They were also the one enemy the Romans couldn't seem to defeat which could be a good thread that someone should post as I would like to know.

Edited by Sun Tzu - 28 Aug 2009 at 06:06
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2009 at 06:43
Here, there is a documentary about Persian dynasties of Parthian and Sassanid battles against Roman Empire from a new perspective.









Enjoy.












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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 03:21
And will not the romantic fancies of the present ever cease to rape the muse of History? How's this for a summation...
 
Oh, my children destruction and desolation
from the West shall come, repeatedly,
and when all is said and done
proud Parsagard in total ruin will lay.
Phil-hellenes those Arsacids,
evil spawn of one Mithridates
for the world will end forever
on the banks of Father Euphrates.
And when all is said and done
Ctesiphon, not Rome, will be but barren stones.
 
 
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 21:13
And your point is that, what, ancient Iran should not be discussed because it is fanciful romanticism? 

Your comments in threads like this might hold merit if you could actually pick up on particular points which bother you. This, as opposed to just dropping in ocassionally and trolling - because as it stands, the very fact that Iran has a traceable history stretching back 2800 years seems to be a point you're not comfortable with given your stream of inane comments in a number of threads now (most of which verge on the most uninformed form of obnoxiousness).


Edited by Zagros - 16 Nov 2009 at 21:22
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 21:44
Particular points that bother me? This entire thread has been premised upon repeated frauds and that little piece from youtube is pure BS! One might say that the Pahlavi hoakie history humbug machine is alive and well since that billion dollar extravaganza of the 1970s. There has been no history discussed here, certainly none that actually pertain to the Sassanids; instead, trite mention of plenty of poppycock or snideness--as with your CIA comment.
 
Spare me the hypocritical protest and if you are going to discuss Sassanids then mention such things as the mobadan mobad, the strengths and weaknesses of military organization under an eran spahbod, but first and foremost actually juxtapose how different the social situation was before and after Anushirvan the Just. Why even a juxtaposition of this last with Ardeshir in terms of social stratification and class enmities might say something of History. Unfortunately, such has not been done and instead nothing but propaganda interrupted by mini-flame wars litter the ethereal landscape--talk about threadbare.
 
And the next time you want to make it personal, look in the mirror!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2009 at 23:38
Drgonzaga, I am sorry to say you are not welcomed in this thread. If you do not like it simply do not follow it, because your agenda is obvious and not welcomed. I personally have followed your comments on Iranian subjects and you keep repeat your BS. I don't know why you have this grudge and I don't care why. This is your habit and our kind Mods perhaps didn't noticed it, but from now on plz take your nonsense and don't bother us.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 01:16
Well, why don't you put your points across then instead of writing silly comments such as this?

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Hey, guys, in the era of the Sassanids, these Azeri were probably Medes. Besides, "Iran" is a modern novelty anyway. Why pretty soon the area will be known as Ahminidijadistan...Evil Smile


The issues you have (if you cared to actually raise them) like I said above, might hold merit and in this case they do but it's your lack of respect in not even stipulating them is my issue.  The fact that I had to 'protest' to get a meaningful comment out of you says it all. 

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Particular points that bother me? This entire thread has been premised upon repeated frauds and that little piece from youtube is pure BS! One might say that the Pahlavi hoakie history humbug machine is alive and well since that billion dollar extravaganza of the 1970s. There has been no history discussed here, certainly none that actually pertain to the Sassanids; instead, trite mention of plenty of poppycock or snideness--as with your CIA comment.
 
Spare me the hypocritical protest and if you are going to discuss Sassanids then mention such things as the mobadan mobad, the strengths and weaknesses of military organization under an eran spahbod, but first and foremost actually juxtapose how different the social situation was before and after Anushirvan the Just. Why even a juxtaposition of this last with Ardeshir in terms of social stratification and class enmities might say something of History. Unfortunately, such has not been done and instead nothing but propaganda interrupted by mini-flame wars litter the ethereal landscape--talk about threadbare.
 
And the next time you want to make it personal, look in the mirror!


And what's more, I'm at a loss as to the inital purpose of this thread myself (it was a statement/advert/FYI), but what it descended into by way of certain comments is ridiculous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2009 at 01:42
Originally posted by Suren Suren wrote:

Drgonzaga, I am sorry to say you are not welcomed in this thread. If you do not like it simply do not follow it, because your agenda is obvious and not welcomed. I personally have followed your comments on Iranian subjects and you keep repeat your BS. I don't know why you have this grudge and I don't care why. This is your habit and our kind Mods perhaps didn't noticed it, but from now on plz take your nonsense and don't bother us.
 
Since you have incessantly desired to serve propaganda as history and actually not even touched upon the Sassanids, we really must question which "habit" is in question here. The Mods have noticed and as underscored with Zagros, nothing of actual historical analysis has been brought forth for quite a long time [the map biz]. Instead we have been regaled with infotainment...if you wish to consume bandwith through cut-and-paste, who really cares, but until you arise Cyrus-like and stage a power melodrama, you do not have any authority as to whom, what, when, and where postings originate.
 
My agenda is a simple one...discuss history, do so in a scholarly manner and leave off all this ethnocentric soap and foam.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Harburs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2010 at 16:48
It's time to shake this thread and get rid of some unrelated post.Smile


Edited by Harburs - 11 Dec 2011 at 05:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2010 at 08:14
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
Oh, my children destruction and desolation
from the West shall come, repeatedly,
and when all is said and done
proud Parsagard in total ruin will lay.
Phil-hellenes those Arsacids,
evil spawn of one Mithridates
for the world will end forever
on the banks of Father Euphrates.
And when all is said and done
Ctesiphon, not Rome, will be but barren stones.

I fail to grasp your case in this thread but this poem is a gem.
Sing, goddess, of Achilles' ruinous anger
Which brought ten thousand pains to the Achaeans,
And cast the souls of many stalwart heroes
To Hades, and their bodies to the dogs
And birds of prey
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