| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Sci-Fi; GF-2045 and the quest for immortality
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Sci-Fi; GF-2045 and the quest for immortality

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Panther View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar
Editorial Staff

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 4577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sci-Fi; GF-2045 and the quest for immortality
    Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 05:00
I was watching "Joe Rogan's Questions Everything" on the Sci-Fi channel yesterday. For those not familiar with the program, the premise of the show is as the title implies in order to get to the truth of a particular issue. (Yup, i was bored yesterday) Actually, the show isn't half as bad as i had at first originally thought. It is kind of interesting, but anyways....

Yesterdays show was on the issue of technology, future human evolution and machines, or the applicability/ramifications of us merging with machines. In effect becoming immortal cyborgs by downloading the human mind into a robotic body. In a certain segment of the program Joe sits down a Russian billionaire to discuss this:



And it raised a whole host of questions in my mind, with feasibility being first and foremost. Then ethics, morality and biological implications of it started to flood in if this ever did become a reality in the future. Then i wondered what our community thought of the issue. And the issue is: What do you think, "if" it ever became possible, to have your conscious mind downloaded into a distant futuristic robotic body, what do you think all the imaginable implications of this might be? And then would you be willing to do it if the tech ever became available?


Edited by Panther - 09 Aug 2013 at 05:01
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
fusong View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 485
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fusong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 01:35

I am not sure how to respond while I am very curious about all this I am sort of weary myself about the development of this technology..

So many certain truths about politics and economics will be made obsolete.. this could perhaps cause a break down of sorts if this actually began to be used on a wide scale with industrial work forces... It's hard to describe how distincly human socities really will not be human any more if we can live forever or for a very long time- this would almost certainly obsolete natural gestation and maternity. For us historians I think it may be hard to make a prediction of a such place because it presents to us subjects that are only sub human- stronger than real biological humans but still sub human in their material..

Maybe these scientists  would go so far as to make these robots biological well they were at least partially as natural as present human beings... If we take that situation then it is easier to discuss what might happen if humans were simply more powerful..
Every ideology has a kernel of truth and sea of whitewash.
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 03:50
I wouldn't say that is sci-fi but just a technological dream. Immortality is, after all, a dream that came from long time ago. Watch this, for instance.



Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Aug 2013 at 14:24
I think the shock people feel about this is due to the sudden jump indicated by the question. The evolution of robotics which eventually will become cyborgs will be slow and gradual, and is actually occurring as we speak. 

Humans are bonding with robots by working together side by side.

Slowly, people with missing limbs or who suffer from paralisis surely prefer controlling robots or having bionic limbs. In fact, robotic hands that monkeys can feel have been made and are appealing to such people. 

The idea of controlling robots with our minds is growing.

And, robots are becoming capable of interacting with humans, while learning from them, so their capabilities go beyond carrying out tasks that programmers have told them to.


As we see these changes, we will gradually accept them, so by the time the technology to download our brains into machines exist, the machines will be very similar to us. We will be used to them, and people will accept it. Right now, however, it's too far away to accept. 

Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2013 at 00:48
I would be careful with the "Singularity" approach to the future. Rather than an intelligent projection of the future, it is well known the belief in the singularity and his related belief, the trans humanism, are just a dogmatic religion.


Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2013 at 02:18
Let me ask you all something: While computer chip implants which would enhance our ability to access information might be out of the question for ourselves, would you want your kids or grandchildren to have them? Keep in mind that they will likely be growing up in an era when others will have such chips, and your descendants would be at a disadvantage competing with them without such chips. 

So, aside from the glory and thrill of accessing information directly through a chip implanted in the brain, we need to consider the practical uses and competitive aspects of this concept. 

Now what do you say?
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2013 at 04:07
Why would I like implants on my grandchildren? I even think cell phones are a nuisance.
Think it in this way, technology should be made to benefit us, not to convert people in slaves of a tyranny worst than Hitler's.


Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2013 at 10:02
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Why would I like implants on my grandchildren? I even think cell phones are a nuisance.
Think it in this way, technology should be made to benefit us, not to convert people in slaves of a tyranny worst than Hitler's.



This reminds me of what manufacturers said about the assembly line in the early 20th century. They knew workers benefited more from constructing products from beginning to end, so they didn't like the assembly line. Still, it was competition that forced everyone to adopt it. 

I hear what you're saying. Technology should benefit us. But, if our future generations are looking for jobs and have to compete with others who can access information twice as quickly as they can, then what would their chances of landing a job be? 
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2013 at 17:37
Fellow. After the Nazi regime, people is a lot more aware about Frankensteinian experiments, transhumanism and other intrusive technology. There is no way we have new Mengeles imposing freak technology without people opposing it.
Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 01:49
How exactly would you define 'freak'? Here are two examples of technology that some may see that way, but they're still going ahead.




The second one involves growing human brain cells in mice. You might say that this is freak tech, but people suffering from degenerative brain diseases might disagree with you because they have to suffer and this could relieve them. 

There will be opposition, no doubt about it, just as the assembly line faced a great deal of opposition and even today is not liked. But, competition makes technology advance. 
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 03:35
Robotic research is doomed from its very bass. The fact is nobody in the academic world has any respect for artificial intelligence research. Even, most scientists agree that with today's computers we'll never reach a real artificial intelligence, and less the saint grial of A.I.: self awareness. The fact is, robots are just complex toys.

The second is just an advance in medicine, following the path of transplants. It doesn't point to immortality but just to extend life a little bit.

Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 11:55
Well, the first step towards self awareness has been broken with robots. 

NICO spends a lot of time looking in the mirror. But it's not mere vanity - Nico is a humanoid robot that can recognise its reflection - a step on the path towards true self-awareness.


People can dismiss this research all they want, but the funding is there because there is an interest in it, and progress is slowly being made. Here we see a robot learning through example rather than through programming.

DO AS I do, not as I say. That is the idea behind a new way to give instructions to robots. Neil Dantam at the Georgia Institute of Technology in Atlanta and colleagues are developing a system in which robots learn by example. Instead of programming a robot to carry out a task, a demonstration could suffice.


I don't know how long it will take, but I do know that we'll make progress as the years go by. If we consider the advances in robotics in the past ten years, I'd say we've come a very long ways. The idea of a robot walking like a human ten yeas ago seemed impossible. Today, they can identify hand drawn sketches. 

Computers are good at speed, numbers, and massive amounts of data, but understanding the content of a simple drawing is more difficult. Researchers at Brown and the Technical University of Berlin have produced a computer application that can identify simple abstract sketches of objects  almost as often (56 percent of the time) as human viewers (73 percent).


So, ten years from now we should have significant artificial intelligence. 


Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 20:22
Originally posted by Logic Logic wrote:

...
So, ten years from now we should have significant artificial intelligence. 




Ha. That's quite naive. Since 60 years ago A.I. gurus have predicted the arrival of real artificial intelligence, and we are still here. That's why I don't believe in the Church of Singularity. Amen.
Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 00:43
Well, if we consider the technology of 60 years ago and see that color television was a big deal, we also see that it threatened people back then, just as what we have today threatens some. 

Nobody can know the future, but as long as there is money to be made there will be funding for research, so we can expect progress. 
Back to Top
pinguin View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 15238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 03:25
50 years ago we have commercial supersonic jet planes and people was landing on the moon. So, instead of advancing in many fields we are going backwards. Otherwise, where is my flying car I was promised at the 60s everybody would have by the year 2000?

And indeed, we can expect progress and that happens little by little, but is not very realistic to expect exponential progress leading to the "singularity" in twenty years from now.


Back to Top
Logic View Drop Down
Knight
Knight
Avatar

Joined: 05 Feb 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 55
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 06:50
People are not going to the moon today because there is no money to be made in that. Still, we have robots exploring Mars and we have airplanes that can fly to outer space. We don't have flying cars, but we do have mind control drones. 


There may not be singularity in the future, and it's even possible that a war could send us backward, because nobody knows the future. 
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar
Editorial Staff

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 4577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 07:39
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

I was watching "Joe Rogan's Questions Everything" on the Sci-Fi channel yesterday. For those not familiar with the program, the premise of the show is as the title implies in order to get to the truth of a particular issue. (Yup, i was bored yesterday) Actually, the show isn't half as bad as i had at first originally thought. It is kind of interesting, but anyways....

Yesterdays show was on the issue of technology, future human evolution and machines, or the applicability/ramifications of us merging with machines. In effect becoming immortal cyborgs by downloading the human mind into a robotic body. In a certain segment of the program Joe sits down a Russian billionaire to discuss this:



And it raised a whole host of questions in my mind, with feasibility being first and foremost. Then ethics, morality and biological implications of it started to flood in if this ever did become a reality in the future. Then i wondered what our community thought of the issue. And the issue is: What do you think, "if" it ever became possible, to have your conscious mind downloaded into a distant futuristic robotic body, what do you think all the imaginable implications of this might be? And then would you be willing to do it if the tech ever became available?

On a side note, do you listen to his podcast? Love that guy. 



I didn't even know the gentleman existed until a month or so ago.
Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar
Editorial Staff

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 4577
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 07:40
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Logic Logic wrote:

...
So, ten years from now we should have significant artificial intelligence. 




Ha. That's quite naive. Since 60 years ago A.I. gurus have predicted the arrival of real artificial intelligence, and we are still here. That's why I don't believe in the Church of Singularity. Amen.


Careful Pinguin.


Edited by Panther - 19 Aug 2013 at 07:40
Back to Top
Paradigm of Humanity View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: Konstantiniyye
Status: Offline
Points: 916
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Aug 2013 at 13:02
I'm quite sceptical about that. Nobody has a clue how the mind works yet... Also remember, your mind is not just information stored and running in your brain. Thyroid glands in your throat or adrenal glands on your kidneys vastly influences your behavior for example. Even that is very simplistic example of how we are influenced to driven to do a simple action (see: hunger response). Many of these will be absent in a theoreticaly conscious machine.

What will urge a conscious machine to answer a simple question or to do our chores? Maybe they will be willing to do our chores for exhange of food/electricity (or any other form of energy) for their survival? But how they could have a fear of vanishing (turning from a state of being to not being) with absence of amigdala?

None of us had been written any post here if we didn't felt a certain satisfaction through interacting with other people, demonstrating our knowledge and intelligence et cetera... 
the single postmodern virtue of obsessive egalitarianism
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.109 seconds.