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Shocking Facts about Thomas Jefferson

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    Posted: 03 Mar 2013 at 23:51

I'm a huge history buff and often write history articles for leisure, the latest one featuring on Thomas Jefferson: Six Shocking Facts About Thomas Jefferson

This, however, is a work in progress, for I update the article with additional facts about Thomas Jefferson as I come across them. Do you feel there was anything "shocking" about Jefferson's presidency -- or, more generally, his life -- that I left out and should be included? The article centers on the many contradictions Jefferson is still getting flak for to this day.

Thoughts?

 

Thanks.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doublejm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2013 at 21:49
Do you guys think Jefferson gets too much flak for being a slave owner when so many other men of his day owned slaves as well?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 01:07
What do you expect? The American revolution was not started and supported by the low rank American people but by the rich landlords of the country, who owned slaves. In other terms, the foundation of the United States was an ideal promoted and started by plantation owners who had slaves and considered blacks to be a resource, rather than a fellow citizen. So, because the slave owners didn't consider Africans to be the same kind of people that the British, it is obvious the constitution was made for the British citizens, only.

It is interesting that at least among the former British people, that constitution considered everyone to be the same. That's not a minor achievement, given the fact at that time Western societies had castes systems similar to the India's. Therefore, Jefferson was a great figure considered the time he lived. He wasn't a saint, though, but just a man of his time.





Edited by pinguin - 30 Mar 2013 at 01:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 14:29
Not quite riight. Not only plantation owners supported the revolution; Fairfax (the 6th Earl) is the classic example of the plantation owner from Virginia who was firmly loyalist. 

Additionally the constitution did not treat all citizens the same, even excluding women, blacks and Amerindians: you had to be a man of property to vote. On the other hand there was nothing anything like the Indian caste system.

Quote Jefferson was a great figure considered the time he lived. He wasn't a saint though but just a man of his time.

Agreed.



Edited by gcle2003 - 30 Mar 2013 at 14:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 17:32
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...you had to be a man of property to vote. On the other hand there was nothing anything like the Indian caste system.


Indeed... at that time democracy wasn't universal. In the British system, and in the very Carta Magna, was writen that all "free man" should be equal. Well, as it happens, the "free man" were landlords that lived on the rents of the land. Somebody that worked couldn't be a "free man".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Mar 2013 at 19:19
Actually it doesn't say all free men should be equal, it refers to peers, knights and free men separately.

But you could be a free man without being a landlord, or indeed without owning anything. All you had to do was live a year and a day in a chartered town, and you were free, whatever you were to start with. Or you could become  a cleric, or a mercenary - those archers at Crecy were free men.

You could be a cobbler, a brewer, an inn owner, an ostler, a carpenter, a gleeman or entertainer, or follow any other trade and be free. An apprentice might not be fully free since he has a contract with a master, bt a master and a journeyman would be free. And they certainly worked. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doublejm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2013 at 02:55
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

What do you expect? The American revolution was not started and supported by the low rank American people but by the rich landlords of the country, who owned slaves. In other terms, the foundation of the United States was an ideal promoted and started by plantation owners who had slaves and considered blacks to be a resource, rather than a fellow citizen. So, because the slave owners didn't consider Africans to be the same kind of people that the British, it is obvious the constitution was made for the British citizens, only.




Interesting point. Did all the Founding Fathers share similar views on slavery?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doublejm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jul 2013 at 04:10
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

...you had to be a man of property to vote. On the other hand there was nothing anything like the Indian caste system.


Indeed... at that time democracy wasn't universal. In the British system, and in the very Carta Magna, was writen that all "free man" should be equal. Well, as it happens, the "free man" were landlords that lived on the rents of the land. Somebody that worked couldn't be a "free man".

Good point.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doublejm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 05:43
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

 

Additionally the constitution did not treat all citizens the same, even excluding women, blacks and Amerindians: you had to be a man of property to vote. 

Amazing how much times have changed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 05:51
Originally posted by doublejm1 doublejm1 wrote:

I'm a huge history buff and often write history articles for leisure, the latest one featuring on Thomas Jefferson: Six Shocking Facts About Thomas Jefferson

This, however, is a work in progress, for I update the article with additional facts about Thomas Jefferson as I come across them. Do you feel there was anything "shocking" about Jefferson's presidency -- or, more generally, his life -- that I left out and should be included? The article centers on the many contradictions Jefferson is still getting flak for to this day.

Thoughts?

 

Thanks.



Either i am impatient or my browser doesn't seem to be too friendly with the site. If you don't mind, would you  please post the six shocking facts here? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2013 at 06:01
Originally posted by doublejm1 doublejm1 wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

What do you expect? The American revolution was not started and supported by the low rank American people but by the rich landlords of the country, who owned slaves. In other terms, the foundation of the United States was an ideal promoted and started by plantation owners who had slaves and considered blacks to be a resource, rather than a fellow citizen. So, because the slave owners didn't consider Africans to be the same kind of people that the British, it is obvious the constitution was made for the British citizens, only.




Interesting point. Did all the Founding Fathers share similar views on slavery?


That is a good complex question that they wrestled with back in the day and mostly they did not all share the same views. Predominantly the majority had an aversion to it, including the slave holding ones, except those founding fathers from Georgia and South Carolina.

The reasons for them not being able to abolish slavery, or their failure in not doing so, at that time was the near unanimous commitment to the rights of private property, the ideals of liberty as it was understood in their time, limited government and in securing the internal stability of the new United States.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fusong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2013 at 01:02
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by doublejm1 doublejm1 wrote:

I'm a huge history buff and often write history articles for leisure, the latest one featuring on Thomas Jefferson: Six Shocking Facts About Thomas Jefferson

This, however, is a work in progress, for I update the article with additional facts about Thomas Jefferson as I come across them. Do you feel there was anything "shocking" about Jefferson's presidency -- or, more generally, his life -- that I left out and should be included? The article centers on the many contradictions Jefferson is still getting flak for to this day.

Thoughts?

 

Thanks.



Either i am impatient or my browser doesn't seem to be too friendly with the site. If you don't mind, would you  please post the six shocking facts here? Thanks.



Here are the sixth shocking facts Panther you might know some of these..

1. Thomas Jefferson…a shy guy?  While Jefferson was masterful with a pen and paper, he was immensely shy and introverted – so much, in fact, that he was always silent in committee meetings leading up to the American Revolution.  It’s no wonder, then, that Jefferson delivered so few speeches throughout his presidency, and that all of his annual messages were delivered in writing rather than in person. However, what Jefferson lacked in social skills he more than made up for in shrewdness, as evidenced by the Louisiana Purchase – what many scholars consider the crowning achievement of his presidency.

2.  A love-hate relationship with big government. Speaking of the Louisiana Purchase, Jefferson espoused his belief in small government and felt that most powers should be reserved for the individual states. He had maintained that the federal government should not assume powers not expressly conferred to it by the U.S. Constitution.  I guess this all went out the window in 1803, when he seized the opportunity to purchase the Louisiana Territory from France.  Though the Constitution said nothing regarding the acquisition of land, Jefferson never looked back and doubled the size of the young country with the stroke of a pen. As another example, he wielded federal power when he pressed Congress to pass the controversial Embargo Act of 1807, which was enacted against France and Great Britain during the Napoleonic Wars. Clearly, Jefferson chose to abandon his staunch stance on limited government when it was most convenient for him.

3. Indulging was wrong – except, of course, when Jefferson did it. Jefferson immersed himself completely in the art, food, wine, and architecture of Parisian society.  Yet, he warned all prospective American tourists to remain in America so as to avoid the luxury, greed, and sheer sinfulness of European “fleshpots,” or establishments meant to offer patrons sensual pleasures or entertainment. This is akin to warning someone about the hazards of fast food and then gorging at McDonald’s every weekend.

4. Jefferson did not practice what he preached when it came to race and the question of slavery. In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson put forth ever so eloquently that “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” But did “all men” include slaves?

The only book Jefferson ever published in his lifetime, Notes on the State of Virginia, featured an in-depth discussion of slavery, including a graphic description of its terrible effects on blacks and whites, a strong argument that it ran contrary to the principles on which the American Revolution was based, and a dire prediction that failure to end slavery might lead to the extermination of one or the other race. Jefferson, ironically, wound up owning hundreds of slaves in his lifetime. In 1819, during the debate in Congress over the Missouri Compromise, he backed the expansion of slavery into all the western territories, a complete reversal of the position he’d taken in the 1780s. What’s more, he stressed that it was wrong for the federal government to attempt any effort at emancipation.

The aforementioned book echoed public statements Jefferson made in which he denounced blacks as biologically inferior, thus exposing what many historians believe to be deep-seated racism that he, like many Virginians of his day, harbored throughout his life. Jefferson went so far as to characterize sexual relations between the races as “taboo.” I suppose Jefferson neglected to mention that this didn’t apply to him, as he allegedly had a relationship in 1788 with his mulatto slave Sally Hemmings and fathered several of her children.

5. Jefferson hated political parties – that is, until the Federalists got under his skin. Although Jefferson insisted that political parties were evil agents , he and his confidante James Madison ended up organizing one of their own. The Democratic-Republican Party stood in unyielding opposition to the Federalist Party, which they claimed wanted to place too much power in the hands of the federal government. He ostensibly set out to strike a conciliatory tone in his inaugural address, which included the famous line, “We are all republicans, we are all Federalists.” As president, however, Jefferson couldn’t bring himself to agree with the Federalists on, well, almost anything.

6. Freedom of the press for all but Jefferson’s opponents.  Jefferson sought to protect individual rights, and he especially championed freedom of the press. But when Federalist newspapers attacked Jefferson’s character and policies, he wasn’t going to stand idly by. He sought indictments against the newspapers, a move that was certainly at odds with his purported commitment to freedom of expression.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doublejm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2013 at 22:56
Originally posted by fusong fusong wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by doublejm1 doublejm1 wrote:

I'm a huge history buff and often write history articles for leisure, the latest one featuring on Thomas Jefferson: Six Shocking Facts About Thomas Jefferson

This, however, is a work in progress, for I update the article with additional facts about Thomas Jefferson as I come across them. Do you feel there was anything "shocking" about Jefferson's presidency -- or, more generally, his life -- that I left out and should be included? The article centers on the many contradictions Jefferson is still getting flak for to this day.

Thoughts?

 

Thanks.



Either i am impatient or my browser doesn't seem to be too friendly with the site. If you don't mind, would you  please post the six shocking facts here? Thanks.



Here are the sixth shocking facts Panther you might know some of these..

1. Thomas Jefferson…a shy guy?  While Jefferson was masterful with a pen and paper, he was immensely shy and introverted – so much, in fact, that he was always silent in committee meetings leading up to the American Revolution.  It’s no wonder, then, that Jefferson delivered so few speeches throughout his presidency, and that all of his annual messages were delivered in writing rather than in person. However, what Jefferson lacked in social skills he more than made up for in shrewdness, as evidenced by the Louisiana Purchase – what many scholars consider the crowning achievement of his presidency.

2.  A love-hate relationship with big government. Speaking of the Louisiana Purchase, Jefferson espoused his belief in small government and felt that most powers should be reserved for the individual states. He had maintained that the federal government should not assume powers not expressly conferred to it by the U.S. Constitution.  I guess this all went out the window in 1803, when he seized the opportunity to purchase the Louisiana Territory from France.  Though the Constitution said nothing regarding the acquisition of land, Jefferson never looked back and doubled the size of the young country with the stroke of a pen. As another example, he wielded federal power when he pressed Congress to pass the controversial Embargo Act of 1807, which was enacted against France and Great Britain during the Napoleonic Wars. Clearly, Jefferson chose to abandon his staunch stance on limited government when it was most convenient for him.

3. Indulging was wrong – except, of course, when Jefferson did it. Jefferson immersed himself completely in the art, food, wine, and architecture of Parisian society.  Yet, he warned all prospective American tourists to remain in America so as to avoid the luxury, greed, and sheer sinfulness of European “fleshpots,” or establishments meant to offer patrons sensual pleasures or entertainment. This is akin to warning someone about the hazards of fast food and then gorging at McDonald’s every weekend.

4. Jefferson did not practice what he preached when it came to race and the question of slavery. In the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson put forth ever so eloquently that “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” But did “all men” include slaves?

The only book Jefferson ever published in his lifetime, Notes on the State of Virginia, featured an in-depth discussion of slavery, including a graphic description of its terrible effects on blacks and whites, a strong argument that it ran contrary to the principles on which the American Revolution was based, and a dire prediction that failure to end slavery might lead to the extermination of one or the other race. Jefferson, ironically, wound up owning hundreds of slaves in his lifetime. In 1819, during the debate in Congress over the Missouri Compromise, he backed the expansion of slavery into all the western territories, a complete reversal of the position he’d taken in the 1780s. What’s more, he stressed that it was wrong for the federal government to attempt any effort at emancipation.

The aforementioned book echoed public statements Jefferson made in which he denounced blacks as biologically inferior, thus exposing what many historians believe to be deep-seated racism that he, like many Virginians of his day, harbored throughout his life. Jefferson went so far as to characterize sexual relations between the races as “taboo.” I suppose Jefferson neglected to mention that this didn’t apply to him, as he allegedly had a relationship in 1788 with his mulatto slave Sally Hemmings and fathered several of her children.

5. Jefferson hated political parties – that is, until the Federalists got under his skin. Although Jefferson insisted that political parties were evil agents , he and his confidante James Madison ended up organizing one of their own. The Democratic-Republican Party stood in unyielding opposition to the Federalist Party, which they claimed wanted to place too much power in the hands of the federal government. He ostensibly set out to strike a conciliatory tone in his inaugural address, which included the famous line, “We are all republicans, we are all Federalists.” As president, however, Jefferson couldn’t bring himself to agree with the Federalists on, well, almost anything.

6. Freedom of the press for all but Jefferson’s opponents.  Jefferson sought to protect individual rights, and he especially championed freedom of the press. But when Federalist newspapers attacked Jefferson’s character and policies, he wasn’t going to stand idly by. He sought indictments against the newspapers, a move that was certainly at odds with his purported commitment to freedom of expression.

Thanks for posting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doublejm1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Sep 2013 at 01:47
Have you guys read any T.J. books you wouldn't mind recommending?
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