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Should Germany bail out Greece?

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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 05:55
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:



Quote
1 USA Total gold holdings: 8,133 tonnes
 
2,4,5 Germany, Italy, France, alone: Total gold holdings 8,288.3 tonnes

Quote
The rest of the world holds far more gold than the US does.

Of course it does?
What on earth is the question mark for? You were wrong. Utterly completely and blatantly wrong.
Quote

Quote
 For that matter the EU alone does.

Yes they do.?
Yes it does. You were wrong.
Quote

Quote
 The US gold, on those figures, is valued at $361.8bn. The US government's debt owed abroad is in the  trillions, with around trillion owed to China.

No, it's 10 trillion, and? 
$10 trillion owed to China? That's more like the total debt, as I said.
The point is the US gold reserves go nowhere near meeting its debt.
Quote

Quote
That takes no account of the massive debt owed abroad by the US private sector.

Are you under the impression we are not owed?
Of course you are owed. The figures I gave are net - they should what the US owes minus what the US is owed.
 
Bluff or stay deluded however you like. The US cannot and probably never will be able to repay its debt.
Quote
So we have Italy's gold. We have Germany's gold, how much did the UK have again?LOL
That's insane. You don't have Italy's gold or Germany's gold. And frankly despite what you would like to see, I don't actually believe the US is going to steal it.
 
What date are you asking? In 1939 the UK had about about two-thirds of what the US had. By 1945 the ratio was 1 to 10. Apart from the wartime losses, the major drop, about 50%, in the UK's gold holdigs was in 1965-67, leading to the devaluation of 1967. The trend continues tll 1971, when the figure dropped to some 700 tonnes. It was still at that level when Gordon Brown made his bad bet (that the gold price was going to fall) in 2000 and solf off 390 thousand.
 
Yes it was a bad bet, but long-term it remains to be seen how far the UK's reliance on currency reserves rather than gold will be harmful. 
 
And please no more senseless answers. Check out a fact or two.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 06:03
Incidentally in 1950 the US had over 20,000 tonnes of gold. Where did that all go?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 07:27


Quote
1 USA Total gold holdings: 8,133 tonnes
 
2,4,5 Germany, Italy, France, alone: Total gold holdings 8,288.3 tonnes

Quote
The rest of the world holds far more gold than the US does.
Quote
Of course it does?
Quote
What on earth is the question mark for? You were wrong. Utterly completely and blatantly wrong.

If I am wrong " Utterly completely and blatantly" Then so are you. The ? is for why are you mentioning other peoples gold.

Quote
 For that matter the EU alone does.
Quote
Yes they do.?
Quote
Yes it does. You were wrong.
I agreed with you. You are still talking about other countries gold.
Quote
 The US gold, on those figures, is valued at $361.8bn. The US government's debt owed abroad is in the  trillions, with around trillion owed to China.
Quote
No, it's 10 trillion, and? 
 
Quote
$10 trillion owed to China? That's more like the total debt, as I said.
The point is the US gold reserves go nowhere near meeting its debt.

Of course it isn't ?<------you get it now *giggle*

Quote
That takes no account of the massive debt owed abroad by the US private sector.
Quote
Are you under the impression we are not owed?
Quote
Of course you are owed. The figures I gave are net - they should what the US owes minus what the US is owed.
 
Quote
Bluff or stay deluded however you like. The US cannot and probably never will be able to repay its debt.

Quote
That's a pity if true, which it ain't. It would wreck the entire world economy.I guess we can always go the IMF for a loan like your country did.
So we have Italy's gold. We have Germany's gold, how much did the UK have again?LOL

Quote
That's insane. You don't have Italy's gold or Germany's gold. And frankly despite what you would like to see, I don't actually believe the US is going to steal it.

We as in YOU AND I. You're the one that started listing other peoples gold.

Quote  
What date are you asking? In 1939 the UK had about about two-thirds of what the US had.

Do y'aal intend returning it to the poor Africans you stole it from?

Quote
Yes it was a bad bet, 
 

That's the first thing you have said that makes any sense.

Pity about the goldless Brits eh? No more Empire to loot. Awe well, that's another post. Huh Graham.
 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 07:28

 Should we start with the 30 Million Indians y'aal deliberately starved to death?


Edited by Buckskins - 10 Mar 2012 at 07:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 07:31
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Incidentally in 1950 the US had over 20,000 tonnes of gold. Where did that all go?

 I spent it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Styrbiorn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 21:34
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:


 Should we start with the 30 Million Indians y'aal deliberately starved to death?


You can start with an explanation how that is related to the Greek bailout.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 21:57
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:



Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
1 USA Total gold holdings: 8,133 tonnes
 
2,4,5 Germany, Italy, France, alone: Total gold holdings 8,288.3 tonnes

The rest of the world holds far more gold than the US does.
Of course it does?
What on earth is the question mark for? You were wrong. Utterly completely and blatantly wrong.

If I am wrong " Utterly completely and blatantly" Then so are you. The ? is for why are you mentioning other peoples gold.
As for why I was mentioniing other peoples' gold, you must be having memory lapses. You listed the top ten holdings - I just referred to what you had said.
 
You wrote
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Dream on Jas. Our debt is in $.
The United States Bullion Depository holds 4,577 metric tons (5046 tons) of gold bullion (147.2 million oz. troy).
The implication was that (a) the money belonged to the US and (b) it was enoough to clear the dollar debt. Both statements are completely false.
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
 For that matter the EU alone does.
Yes they do.?
Yes it does. You were wrong.
I agreed with you. You are still talking about other countries gold.
You didn't agree with me. And yes we are both talking about other countries' gold. The S holdings you introduced are irreevant to the topic. EU gold on the other hand is on topic. It's an essential part of answering the question posed, which has nothing to do with the US.
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
 The US gold, on those figures, is valued at $361.8bn. The US government's debt owed abroad is in the  trillions, with around trillion owed to China.
No, it's 10 trillion, and? 
$10 trillion owed to China? That's more like the total debt, as I said.
The point is the US gold reserves go nowhere near meeting its debt.
Of course it isn't ?<------you get it now *giggle*
Now you just appear to be raving. Do you always snap like that when someone proves you wrong.
Quote

Quote
Quote
That takes no account of the massive debt owed abroad by the US private sector.
Are you under the impression we are not owed?
Of course you are owed. The figures I gave are net - they should what the US owes minus what the US is owed.
Bluff or stay deluded however you like. The US cannot and probably never will be able to repay its debt.
Quote
That's a pity if true, which it ain't. It would wreck the entire world economy.I guess we can always go the IMF for a loan like your country did.
The only was the US could repay its debt would be to print more and more currency until the dollar is completely devalued. In which case it wouldn't be able to maintain its 30-year-old strategy of borrowing from abroad to finance itself. Why would that worry the economies of the rest of the world unduly (even China is not dependent on US sales. The effect of the US though would be even more catastrophic than its current economc woes.
Quote
Quote
Quote
So we have Italy's gold. We have Germany's gold, how much did the UK have again?LOL

That's insane. You don't have Italy's gold or Germany's gold. And frankly despite what you would like to see, I don't actually believe the US is going to steal it.

We as in YOU AND I. You're the one that started listing other peoples gold.
OK I misread the 'we' other than you intended.
Look back. The thread is about the EU. I don't remember raising the gold issue, but if I did then EU gold is relevant. US gold isn't. Also it was you who produced the list of the top ten (including the IMF) not me.
Quote
Quote  
What date are you asking? In 1939 the UK had about about two-thirds of what the US had.

Do y'aal intend returning it to the poor Africans you stole it from?
Like I said, raving. Think about where gold is found in Africa and then think about who found it and dug it up.
Quote
Quote
Yes it was a bad bet, 
 

That's the first thing you have said that makes any sense.

Pity about the goldless Brits eh? No more Empire to loot. Awe well, that's another post. Huh Graham.
 
Whether or not gold is worth hanging on to is a question yet to be resolved. The US and Britain have adopted a strategy that discounts the value of gold reserves, which is one reason they have run down the reserves they hold (the other being the US need to repay debt).
At least so far the UK is not doing as well economically as the northern European countries, mainly because it is partly following US-style strategies, but it is doing way better than the US.
 
Incidentally, Italy has 2.5 times as much in gold reserves as China. Which is the stronger economy?


Edited by gcle2003 - 10 Mar 2012 at 22:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 2012 at 22:06
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Incidentally in 1950 the US had over 20,000 tonnes of gold. Where did that all go?

 I spent it.
Raving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 04:56
Quote  
The rest of the world holds far more gold than the US does.
Quote
Of course it does?
Quote
What on earth is the question mark for? You were wrong. Utterly completely and blatantly wrong.
Quote
If I am wrong " Utterly completely and blatantly" Then so are you. The ? is for why are you mentioning other peoples gold.
Quote
As for why I was mentioniing other peoples' gold, you must be having memory lapses. You listed the top ten holdings - I just referred to what you had said.
 
Quote
No you didn't. You are fully aware the the UK has next to no gold.  That is why, (and you know why) I listed the top gold holders.
Quote
You wrote Dream on Jas. Our debt is in $.
The United States Bullion Depository holds 4,577 metric tons (5046 tons) of gold bullion (147.2 million oz. troy).
The implication was that (a) the money belonged to the US and (b) it was enoough to clear the dollar debt. Both statements are completely false.

I made no such statements and you know it. I also acknowledged to Jas that in fact the US does hold gold for others.
The only one going on about US debt is you.

Quote
 For that matter the EU alone does.
Quote
Yes they do.?
Quote
Yes it does. You were wrong.
Quote
I agreed with you. You are still talking about other countries gold.
Quote
You didn't agree with me. And yes we are both talking about other countries' gold. The S holdings you introduced are irreevant to the topic. EU gold on the other hand is on topic. It's an essential part of answering the question posed, which has nothing to do with the US.

Well if the UK has a poverty stricken amount of gold, are you under the impression that EU gold deposits are the UK's.

Quote
 The US gold, on those figures, is valued at $361.8bn. The US government's debt owed abroad is in the  trillions, with around trillion owed to China.
Quote
No, it's 10 trillion, and? 
Quote
$10 trillion owed to China? That's more like the total debt, as I said.
The point is the US gold reserves go nowhere near meeting its debt.
Quote
Of course it isn't ?<------you get it now *giggle*
Quote
Now you just appear to be raving. Do you always snap like that when someone proves you wrong.

If anyone's snapping sir, it sure ain't me, and where did you "prove me wrong" ?

Quote
Bluff or stay deluded however you like. The US cannot and probably never will be able to repay its debt.
Quote
That's a pity if true, which it ain't. It would wreck the entire world economy.I guess we can always go the IMF for a loan like your country did.
Quote
The only was the US could repay its debt would be to print more and more currency until the dollar is completely devalued. In which case it wouldn't be able to maintain its 30-year-old strategy of borrowing from abroad to finance itself. Why would that worry the economies of the rest of the world unduly (even China is not dependent on US sales. The effect of the US though would be even more catastrophic than its current economc woes.

So we have Italy's gold. We have Germany's gold, how much did the UK have again?LOL

Quote
That's insane. You don't have Italy's gold or Germany's gold. And frankly despite what you would like to see, I don't actually believe the US is going to steal it.
Quote
We as in YOU AND I. You're the one that started listing other peoples gold.
Quote
OK I misread the 'we' other than you intended.
Look back. The thread is about the EU. I don't remember raising the gold issue, but if I did then EU gold is relevant. US gold isn't. Also it was you who produced the list of the top ten (including the IMF) not me.


If the tread is about the EU as you say, what are you doing drooling on about the US debt?

Quote
What date are you asking? In 1939 the UK had about about two-thirds of what the US had.
Quote
Do y'aal intend returning it to the poor Africans you stole it from?
Quote
Like I said, raving. Think about where gold is found in Africa and then think about who found it and dug it up.

Who found it? Who dug it up? This is your explanation for looting Africa's natural resources?
Quote
Yes it was a bad bet, 
 
Quote
That's the first thing you have said that makes any sense.
Pity about the goldless Brits eh? No more Empire to loot. Awe well, that's another post. Huh Graham.
 
Quote
Whether or not gold is worth hanging on to is a question yet to be resolved. The US and Britain have adopted a strategy that discounts the value of gold reserves, which is one reason they have run down the reserves they hold (the other being the US need to repay debt).
At least so far the UK is not doing as well economically as the northern European countries, mainly because it is partly following US-style strategies, but it is doing way better than the US.

Incidentally, Italy has 2.5 times as much in gold reserves as China. Which is the stronger economy?

So the UK has a stronger economy than the US then? You people can't even build a car that belongs to a Brit company. Maggie flooded your mines,and Scotland can't wait to get shot of you. Where's your oil coming from again? And your exported petroleum products? You can forget The Malvinas. 15/20 years and you are a third world country.

Exported commodities manufactured goods, fuels, chemicals; food, beverages tobacco.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom#Taxation_and_borrowing

Nowadays, the U.K. has plenty of car manufacturing — total vehicle output for 2008 was close to 1.65 million — it’s just that others own it.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-51301224/the-decline-of-the-uk-auto-industry/



Edited by Buckskins - 11 Mar 2012 at 05:11
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 05:02
Graham, your last post was a bit of a mess sir. You have been with this wonderful forum a long time. Long enough to learn some HTML to stop your threads looking untidy. Your tone was also unworthy of a leadership position. You are a Moderator and should be setting the example.

Edited by Buckskins - 11 Mar 2012 at 05:03
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 2012 at 07:22
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Graham, your last post was a bit of a mess sir. You have been with this wonderful forum a long time. Long enough to learn some HTML to stop your threads looking untidy. Your tone was also unworthy of a leadership position. You are a Moderator and should be setting the example.
My last post was perfectly nested. You don't seem to be able to do anything but list individual posts with no indication whatsoever as to what followed what in what order, though I accept you've been trying more lately.
 
Moreover you again expose your ignorance by suggesting it has anything to do with HTML. You cannot in fact write direct HTML in this forum. But while I've been writing HTML since version 1 with the launch of Europe Online in 1995, with me as both forums manager and sports editor, I doubt that you have any idea of what it is, even though you can probably look up what the abbreviation stands for. (My own personal site has been up since 1998.)
 
Judgment of my performance I'm perfectly happy to leave to fellow moderators and administrators. I've been elected to the Council several times now. If you have a complaint contact another moderator or administrator with it as in the procedure laid down in the code of conduct, which you would do well to read anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2012 at 06:29
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Graham, your last post was a bit of a mess sir. You have been with this wonderful forum a long time. Long enough to learn some HTML to stop your threads looking untidy. Your tone was also unworthy of a leadership position. You are a Moderator and should be setting the example.
My last post was perfectly nested. You don't seem to be able to do anything but list individual posts with no indication whatsoever as to what followed what in what order, though I accept you've been trying more lately.
 
Moreover you again expose your ignorance by suggesting it has anything to do with HTML. You cannot in fact write direct HTML in this forum.

Speak for yourself.
Quote
 But while I've been writing HTML since version 1 with the launch of Europe Online in 1995, with me as both forums manager and sports editor, I doubt that you have any idea of what it is, even though you can probably look up what the abbreviation stands for. (My own personal site has been up since 1998.)
 

You were a bit late.

Quote
Judgment of my performance I'm perfectly happy to leave to fellow moderators and administrators. I've been elected to the Council several times now. If you have a complaint contact another moderator or administrator with it as in the procedure laid down in the code of conduct.

I'm sure that will work out just fine for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2012 at 20:51
Originally posted by Buckskins Buckskins wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

You cannot in fact write direct HTML in this forum.

Speak for yourself.
There simply is no way of writing HTML directly in this forum.
For instance this <I>sample of italics</I> will not appear as italic whereas this sample will.
 
I wonder if you'd care to tell us what HTML is?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buckskins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2012 at 03:55
No I wouldn't care to, and if I didn't know I wouldn't care to Google it.
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