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Smoking spreads to Asia

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lirelou View Drop Down
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    Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 05:02
We recently had a thread on chili peppers, which aroused much hot debate. Here is a short historical article on how tobacco arrived in Korea, and how quickly it spread, taking on as it did so, some decidedly Korean characteristics:

To quote Robert Neff:
 "The image that best typifies Koreans of the past is undoubtedly that of an old man, dressed in white, with a long tobacco pipe ready at hand. The pipe was an indispensable part of a Korean’s life. It didn’t matter if he was of noble or poor class, young or old, or even a he - almost all Koreans had tobacco and pipes. Tobacco was first introduced into Korea in the early 1600s following the Imjin War (1592-1598). Its initial use was as a medicine and it was very expensive. Naturally, this motivated some to attempt to profit from it, often by illegal means. While on a diplomatic mission to China in March 1643, one Korean diplomat was apprehended by the Chinese authorities for smuggling a cartload of tobacco."

article with photo at:  http://10magazine.asia/blog/2010/11/29/tobacco-and-korea/


Edited by lirelou - 01 Dec 2010 at 05:04
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 10:03
Smokers are a dying breed (literally) We deserve some compassion and understanding. 
http://xkcd.com/15/



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 13:44
Speak for yourself Parnell! All of those perniciously obese mumblers attacking tobacco or crazed health nuts overconsuming strange herbs and other concoctions while dithering on-and-on on the evils of tobacco will predecease most of us who find comfort in a comfy chair with a Havana in one hand and a warmed Remy snifter in the other!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 14:08
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Speak for yourself Parnell! All of those perniciously obese mumblers attacking tobacco or crazed health nuts overconsuming strange herbs and other concoctions while dithering on-and-on on the evils of tobacco will predecease most of us who find comfort in a comfy chair with a Havana in one hand and a warmed Remy snifter in the other!
 
 


That reminds me of a funny quote i've seen in catalog pushing t-shirts that read: "exercise, eat right, diet and still die anyway".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 15:04
Originally posted by Parnell Parnell wrote:

Smokers are a dying breed (literally) We deserve some compassion and understanding. 
 
Well not from me, half the clan died of Heart disease and the other half nearly did and all because of smoking (many cases passive). Strangely though I can't remember anyone dying from cancer although I'm certain one did (about 20 years ago) and of course due to smoking.
 
The sooner they ban it the better for all.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 15:21
I'm am most deeply sorry to hear that Al Jassas! But i think it should be a personal choice as long as it is not causing anyone else any harm, except to us smokers of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 15:55

Here is the thing, people still think passive smoking is not a problem. If people want to smoke alone or with other smokers I have no problem, however exposing their wives and children to the disease is unacceptable. Plus it encourages children to smoke which is wrong too.

 
By the way smoking is the only issue that I am truly passionate about. I could care less with other issues but smoking, here is where I draw the line.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 16:49
"Passive smoking"! Balderdash! Given the quality of the urban air (particularly in view of all of those petrolated corpuscles known as automobiles), an occasional whiff of Nicotiana tabacum should be the least of your worries.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 16:55
Despite its intolerable stench. 
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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People who smoke are people who stink.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 18:35
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Despite its intolerable stench. 
 
Have you tried riding the Paris "metro"? And speaking of stench, what could be more nauseating than those sickeningly sweet colognes and perfumes that invade the nostrils of innocent passers-by? Still if given the choice between a smoke-filled bar and "taking the air" on a Beijing afternoon...barkeep set up a round! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 18:39
Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

People who smoke are people who stink.
 
Ah, a comment from our resident "pot" head...the dizzy are all against R.J. Reynolds but boy do they want to legalize "Mary Jane" with a vengeance!
 
Oh well, the contradictions of modern life in these United States are quite entertaining and probably just as obnoxious as all of those  old marm probitionists of the 1890s...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 19:24
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Despite its intolerable stench. 
 
Have you tried riding the Paris "metro"? And speaking of stench, what could be more nauseating than those sickeningly sweet colognes and perfumes that invade the nostrils of innocent passers-by? Still if given the choice between a smoke-filled bar and "taking the air" on a Beijing afternoon...barkeep set up a round! 


Fulham Broadway packed with scouse football fans trumps almost anything.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 19:34
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Despite its intolerable stench. 
 
Have you tried riding the Paris "metro"? And speaking of stench, what could be more nauseating than those sickeningly sweet colognes and perfumes that invade the nostrils of innocent passers-by? Still if given the choice between a smoke-filled bar and "taking the air" on a Beijing afternoon...barkeep set up a round! 


LOL or open Doc G's Cigar Emporium on Huashe and Sihchuan. You'd be kiling two birds with one stone.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Omar al Hashim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2010 at 21:59
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

Despite its intolerable stench. 
 
Have you tried riding the Paris "metro"? And speaking of stench, what could be more nauseating than those sickeningly sweet colognes and perfumes that invade the nostrils of innocent passers-by? Still if given the choice between a smoke-filled bar and "taking the air" on a Beijing afternoon...barkeep set up a round! 
While I am sure that breathing in Bejing is as bad as passive smoking in Canberra, I can assure you that a Bejing internet cafe packed with smokers is 100 times worse than the Bejing street.
 
Smoking should be permitted outdoors in well ventilated areas where a person always has a choice to be somewhere else.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 00:20
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

I'm am most deeply sorry to hear that Al Jassas! But i think it should be a personal choice as long as it is not causing anyone else any harm, except to us smokers of course.


Hi Panther, should consumption of heroin, cocain and crystal meth also be personal choice?

How about alcohol, LSD or prozac?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 00:53
Originally posted by Constantine XI Constantine XI wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

I'm am most deeply sorry to hear that Al Jassas! But i think it should be a personal choice as long as it is not causing anyone else any harm, except to us smokers of course.


Hi Panther, should consumption of heroin, cocain and crystal meth also be personal choice?

How about alcohol, LSD or prozac?


Howdy Constantine XI!

Apparently they are a personal choice, whether we like it or not. I don't see how the banning of tobacco would really improve the situation? Especially in light of the booming business drug traffickers are doing now a days because of all the bans already in place. 


Edited by Panther - 02 Dec 2010 at 00:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 01:30
I wonder if in Asia people smoke something else before getting tobacco from the Americas. I don't mean drugs, but other substances that produced smoke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 04:49
Contrary to popular belief, cannabis had people jumping through smoke rings long before the discovery of America and poor tabac! In fact the cannabis plant in its three variants is native to Central and Southern Asia and its "smoking" long predated the drug cartels of the modern era or the hippies down San Francisco way. High Times and Green Grass (that's chocolate to the cognoscenti) long ago received the Arabic descriptive hashish but the kooky Arians of the plateau already knew it as booz rooz and, hey, even in Akkadian, a way to produce smoke was known as kunnabtu and associated with this specific plant!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote whalebreath Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2010 at 07:32
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Originally posted by whalebreath whalebreath wrote:

People who smoke are people who stink.
 
Ah, a comment from our resident "pot" head...the dizzy are all against R.J. Reynolds but boy do they want to legalize "Mary Jane" with a vengeance!
 
Oh well, the contradictions of modern life in these United States are quite entertaining and probably just as obnoxious as all of those  old marm probitionists of the 1890s...

I beg you pardon-WTH does that idea come from?

Because I live in a place famous for powerful cannabis?

What does that have to do with me personally?

Do you regularly besmirch people here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Dec 2010 at 02:19

It’s interesting to think that today, if society had never considered the use of tobacco, and someone came up with the idea of marketing this substance, he would undoubtedly be adamantly refused to do so by licensing authorities. If it was sold on the street, the sellers would probably end up in jail, for pushing a dangerous drug. It is only because smoking has been infused into the culture that it cannot be stamped out immediately and entirely.

 

The concept of personal choice floated here is a weak one. Here is a drug that does nothing for you except destroy your lungs, heart, and circulatory system, among other things, and yet people choose to do this because they “enjoy” it. Talk about denial. And I don’t mean the river in Africa. This is addiction, quite simply.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2012 at 04:07
An old topic, but I feel like reopening it because I have the time.

Smoking of tobacco differs from many other forms of drug use in that there is no safe maximum in consumption. Every cigarette smoked does you damage. Unlike alcohol or MDMA, for example, which only produce toxicity and harm in especially high dosages. There are plenty of people who drink and it never does them any harm, the same is not true for cigarettes.

The various chemicals used to manufacture cigarettes enhance an already addictive substance and make it very difficult to stop. It is directly physiologically addictive, unlike something like alcohol which becomes psychologically addictive for people who have terrible coping skills. We can all remember being 18 or 16 and how easy it was to make a stupid, impulsive snap decision to try something new. And that's how the tobacco industry works: getting (typically young and reckless) people physiologically addicted to the stuff before they know better.

Smoking here is dying a slow death, with the number of people smoking dropping year by year. Partly it's a result of the refusal of the young to do something that they know is stupid and is becoming more socially unacceptable. Partly it's a result of smokers giving it up. Partly it's a result of the older generation (who smoke more) dying off. I think usage is now at about 17% or so. And as the number shrinks, the government finds it ever easier to make smoking harder and more expensive to do.

In reference to smoking in Asia, it has been my impression that the Chinese were always fond of opium. Though theirs was a low grade product which had nowhere near the same effect as the Indian opium imported by Europeans.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2012 at 13:27
Alcohol is physiologically addictive too. 
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2012 at 14:52
The way I see alcohol, one develops a dependency on it for certain reasons (most especially, because it provides an easy escape mechanism from immediate reality via an altered state of consciousness). While it may become physiologically addictive, it isn't necessarily that way. Most people can stop drinking without becoming emotionally altered (irritable, short of temper etc).

With cigarettes you have something that people develop an addiction to after their first packet or so of smoking, regardless of how well they are coping with life or other factors. For that reason I see the two substances as different.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2012 at 23:13
The addictive drive is the same as that for most other nutorious narcotics. Can be emotional at first but then it almost certainly becomes physical.  Heroin isn't physical at first either.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 00:42
While this is true, I believe there is a difference in the scale at which people develop a dependency. Addiction occurs more quickly with cigarettes, and a greater percentage of users suffer withdrawal symptoms when they stop using.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2012 at 10:31
I think that scale is dependent as much if not more so on the person than the drug.  Nicotine is easy to get addicted to but its physical withdrawal symptoms are a picnic compared to alcohol or other hard drugs.  And I don't use the term "hard" lightly, you just have to look at the physiological process which results in drunkeness to realise how brutal alcohol is and also the levels of illness, social degeneration and violence that are a direct result of its abuse.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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