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South Africa to follow Zimbabwe?

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2018 at 02:54
Once again we've wandered off topic. You manage to inveigle me far too often.

The topic was about how Mugabe in Zimbabwe forced white land owners off their properties and gave them to black people. Quite a few whites were simply murdered, and now South Africa appears to be going the same way, forcing whites off their long owned properties, and doing nothing about those who are murdered in the process.

This appears to happen in African countries which were once colonies of European states. And very few prosper ever after. Benign democratic government is replaced by corrupt dictatorship.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 May 2018 at 23:31
Mugabe is gone, Zuma is gone, question is, how much will that change matters on the ground?

I am not sure that one can appropriately generalize in that way.  Most purges in Africa are against rival tribes, we are looking at two countries in the far south that because of circumstances and geography, had a large white population, with large scale farms.  All countries, except maybe Liberia and Ethiopia were once colonies, we are talking about two.  South Africa and Zimbabwe (Rhodesia).

I am not sure Africa ever had "benign democratic government."  It has always been corrupt dictatorship, even when (especially when?) a colonial government.  On the other hand, Africa needs to stop blaming its problems on its former colonial masters, and own up to its own problems.  I would venture to say that many of Africa's problems are based on tribal loyalties out-"trumping" everything else. 


Edited by franciscosan - 01 May 2018 at 23:32
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jun 2018 at 05:24
Franciscosan

Quote I am not sure Africa ever had "benign democratic government."  It has always been corrupt dictatorship, even when (especially when?) a colonial government.  On the other hand, Africa needs to stop blaming its problems on its former colonial masters, and own up to its own problems.  I would venture to say that many of Africa's problems are based on tribal loyalties out-"trumping" everything else.

Yes, I suppose you're right there. Ethiopia was taken over by Italy at one stage, but it didn't last. Wasn't Liberia where the Freed Slaves went to settle?

And you're right again about the tribal issues as we've seen in the Hutus v the Tutsis. I's said that up to 200,000 people died in that conflict (if you can call it that).

As for the changes in government in Rhodesia (being provocative here), they don't seem to make much difference.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jul 2018 at 18:55
Yes, Ethiopia, and Liberia are not much as exceptions from the European colonization of Africa.  I cannot really say I understand the tribal conflicts in Africa, I just know a little about the tip-top of the iceberg.  UN aid to Rwandan refugees destabilized Zaire, and caused the fall of Mobutu Sese Seko.  

I am not sure that the whites in Rhodesia were not just another tribe, but if so, they were one that used modern farming techniques and were able to work the land much better than the non-farmers their land was 'rewarded" to, by Mugabe.

But I think that we may be expecting too much, in expecting democratic institutions.  On the other hand, to some our concept of family may look deficient.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2018 at 03:45
Latest is that white farmers are being offered one tenth of the value of their farms, and if they don't accept, they're being kicked off the land.
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