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South American Megaliths

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2017 at 17:46
Vanuatu

Yes, but isn't it a pity that the architecture was confined to royalty, the Church and the upper classes.

Basic sanitation, as practised by the Romans may have prevented thousands of deaths over the years, caused, basically, by lack of sanitation procedures,such as personal hygeine, using the public streets as sewers and so on.

France, for example, was far ahead of England in this regard, but the poms thought thatby regular bathing, their immune systems would shut down-and no-one attempted to convice them otherwise appparently.

And as for Cathedrals, habitats of rogues and centres of scandal, IMHO.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Mar 2017 at 00:38
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Vanuatu

Yes, but isn't it a pity that the architecture was confined to royalty, the Church and the upper classes.

Basic sanitation, as practised by the Romans may have prevented thousands of deaths over the years, caused, basically, by lack of sanitation procedures,such as personal hygeine, using the public streets as sewers and so on.

France, for example, was far ahead of England in this regard, but the poms thought thatby regular bathing, their immune systems would shut down-and no-one attempted to convice them otherwise appparently.

And as for Cathedrals, habitats of rogues and centres of scandal, IMHO.



Imagine the peasant living on the Moors in mud and thatch houses. Not a spot of daylight and a smokey hearth killing you as much as it keeps you alive. Bandits come for you, nothing to be done about it, just suffer and suffer more. 
The Britons knew that water could carry disease, they didn't understand it all obviously but they tried to keep their clothes clean and scented themselves with spices. It was undesirable to be unclean, only unavoidable for common people. 
It's not so different from today is it? That the wealth of the world moves along as though the suffering of most the worlds people does not exist.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 01:19
An ancient Greek wise man (maybe Epimenides?) called members of the same household, "sharers of smoke."  Hillary Clinton was in many ways shut out of state business by an active Obama White House, but one thing she did (which is not really a Secretary of State thing) is oversee the distribution of smokeless cooking stoves to 3rd world nations, because of the respiratory problems caused to women, by cooking.  Of course, George W Bush made AIDS in Africa a big issue, and treated it as a medical issue.  You don't very much hear fundamentalists going on about AIDS as a curse against the gays anymore.  CDC and other world disease agencies were on top of of Ebola fairly quickly.  George W Bush increased funding for the CDC in particular, and science (NASA) in general during his tenure.  Unlike some people.  I don't know what President Obama's record on science was, except that we have to rely on the Russians to get to the space station.  President Clinton cut things, and President George W Bush, built them back.  One should give credit where credit is due.
But I think that it is different today, than it used to be.  At one time, the first world could invade and impose order upon a region.  Can't do that today, nor would we want to.  People around the world these days are digesting news and stories from everywhere else.  They are saying, "why can we not have that."  But, at the same time there may be a cost for that, something they don't want to, or can't give up.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2017 at 01:32
franciscosan

But we've raced away from the OP!!

To recap, I mentioned the South American megaliths, and all associated civil engineering works as examples of the skills and knowledge which were held at the time, but were not progressed and which did not spread to other parts of South America, let alone to North America. Why?

I mentioned the Roman works in England, and the fact that when the Romans left, the technology apparently went with them. Why?

The great civil engineering accomplshments of the Mesopotamian region did not spread across northern Asia and Eastern Europe. Why?

And, in frustration I asked if there were no reasonable explanations why these technologies weren't taken up across the Americas, the UK and Europe, why?

References to space technology don't address the questions asked.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 14:16
Quote Hi caldrail. Strange things exist right here on earth. Why discount aliens? Did you hear the news this past week? Small star showing the pull of 7 planets 40 light years away. I don't discount the visitor possibility.

Sorry for the late reply.

Yes, strange things occur, but that's because a reasonable explanation is lacking, so people insert their favourite alternative - that behaviour is source of religion in human society. I attended a lecture not so long ago by a team of paranormal investigators and they described the situation as only 5% of their cases showed any strangeness. For instance, a public house complained of ghosts on their cellar. On investigation, it transpired that passing vehicles on the road outside were generating air pressure inequalities that caused the bumps in the night. The connection wasn't obvious at first, but ultimately explainable.

I was once on a course with a lad from a farming family. He told me one night the Police called at their farm and told them they'd received reports of strange activity up on the hill. The Police seemed unwilling to investigate, so the young lad got into a tractor and trundled up the farm track toward the hill in middle of the windy night. He too saw flashes of light and got very worried about what he might find. It turned out to be a hi-vis vest on a scarecrow, fluttering in the wind and reflecting moonlight or headlamps.

As attractive as the idea of alien visitation is, there is not a shred of credible evidence for it anywhere. Almost all the depictions of ancient cultures said to show aliens or their technology is simply a misinterpretation, placing modern perspective on something that has a different or completely lost meaning. The Maya Tree Of Life, for instance, a symbolic image, has been promoted by Daniken and similar writers as some form of rocket bike - never mind the rider has zero protection, environmental support, or even straps to hold him on. Never mind that not the slightest inkling of such technology has ever come to light in that region.

One theory has the Maya as survivors of an alien space crash, hence their long term calendar, waiting for a rescue mission which - gasp - was due to arrive in December 2012. They seem to stopped for lunch on the way. But of course the Maya appear to be perfectly human, no links with alien societies, and the idea of their calendar was linked to their religion as much as astronomy.

As it happens, I don't discount the idea of alien visitation - if it's actually possible to travel within a reasonable timescale between star systems, then we have to assume that somebody might have already succeeded, but until we find actual evidence of that - it remains speculation, and when that speculation is used both to explain something mundane in our observable world or worse still, to promote someone's individual beliefs and agenda - sorry - that's a NO.

Incidentially you might like to know that a theory exists as to why we haven't found any signals from alien civilisations. This idea emerged in the seventies and is largely forgotten, but imagine a paranoid race that builds a weapon to destroy potential rivals. A machine capable of destroying the eco-system of a planet - not entirely impossible even with our own level of technology. SO these things are wandering around out there homing in on signals from newly emerged civilisations to destroy them. And we've been broadcasting electromagnetic signals for something a bit longer than a century, which means if one of those machines happens to be passing within a hundred light years or so... Maybe you should invest in a nuke shelter too? :D
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2017 at 19:03
The killing machines galactically on the loose are called Berserkers, an area of science fiction popularized by Fred Saberhagen.  Star Trek's 'the Planet Killer' is an example of these.  Of course, it could be that after a certain level of technology, they use fiber optics and point to point communications lasers.

I think there is a little bit of disparagement of "primitive" cultures when people can't imagine them creating such monuments as the Mayan pyramids, it is not exactly the same as racism, but is akin to it.
It "has" to be aliens, because how could such "primitives" do such things?  _We_ "obviously" could do such things, _if_ we wanted to, but we don't....  Personally, I don't think we could, or at least not without reverse engineering what they did.  But it matches our ego to think we could (if we wanted to).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 00:29
But still no answers to the OP question.

Why?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 00:43
Why? what?  I looked back at the first post of this thread, and I see no "why" question there.  I recommend to you that you use complete sentences in describing "why?" and don't make people look back on previous posts in order to figure out what you are asking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2017 at 05:17
franciscosan
Question from the OP.

Quote Does anyone on this forum have any idea where the ideas for their construction came from?

And as for the question, "Why?"-if you had been following the thread you would have found that I have asked why civil engineering works and architecture ideas (a) didn't last in certain countries/communities, and (b) what rational explanation is there for this phenomena.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 02:10
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

[quote]



Incidentially you might like to know that a theory exists as to why we haven't found any signals from alien civilisations. This idea emerged in the seventies and is largely forgotten, but imagine a paranoid race that builds a weapon to destroy potential rivals. A machine capable of destroying the eco-system of a planet - not entirely impossible even with our own level of technology. SO these things are wandering around out there homing in on signals from newly emerged civilisations to destroy them. And we've been broadcasting electromagnetic signals for something a bit longer than a century, which means if one of those machines happens to be passing within a hundred light years or so... Maybe you should invest in a nuke shelter too? :D

Right! But if there are Berserkers out there and they catch Hitler's speil they may want to meet us, lol.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 02:24
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:


I think there is a little bit of disparagement of "primitive" cultures when people can't imagine them creating such monuments as the Mayan pyramids, it is not exactly the same as racism, but is akin to it.
It "has" to be aliens, because how could such "primitives" do such things?  _We_ "obviously" could do such things, _if_ we wanted to, but we don't....  Personally, I don't think we could, or at least not without reverse engineering what they did.  But it matches our ego to think we could (if we wanted to).

You see I don't have any doubts that once the humans had modern physiology that their capacity for intelligence would match ours.  It's only a question of what you must know to survive. 

The Yanomami in South America have encyclopedic understanding of their natural world, seasonal changes, rivers, animals etc. In fact there was a group of Indians who recently made an attempt to educate us about how we are destroying the world. 

It's the failure of modern science to provide a link from hominid to human that makes Von Danekin such an entertainer writer.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 02:46
People forget, entropy prevails.  When you have a change in communications media, you loose things, how many movies get lost in the shuffle from film, to tape, to DVD?  The same happened in antiquity from the transition from scrolls to codices, a lot was lost.  It is rather easy for things get lost in the transition of things.  How many silent films were lost, even famous ones, in less than 100 years.  We have a list of Euripides plays, and we have a list of what plays of Euripides were in the Library of Alexandria.  Half of the list never made it through the 100, 150 years until the Library was opened.  Things get lost.  I think you are asking, "why do they get lost?"  Well, because people don't value them, because they are more work then people think they are worth.  Because the right combination came into existence to allow them to do something wonderful, and then that right combination gets disrupted.  Things change, people aren't as educated as they used to be, they have different priorities.  Civilization is a lot more tenuous than you think.  There are technological wonders that we don't know how to imitate.  granulation on gold work, _and_ we have their examples of it so we know it can be done.  Machu Picchu probably couldn't be built today, too dangerous, too many people falling off the side.
Does that help?  I don't really know what kind of answer you expect.
Just because you can articulate a question, doesn't mean that it can be answered to your satisfaction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 04:23
People forget and oh how they remember. Anthropologists lump together the millinarianism of Christianity with the Melanesian cargo cults. Oppressed or disenfranchised people often envision a future when a returning hero bestows a bounty upon the faithful.
Suppose there was a civilization in South America when the Pacific Islanders landed. The Haplo group X found among the Basque and the *Melanesians* could have been advanced in ecstatic trance experience. 
*Native Americans*


This is a universally similar perception of geometric shapes, color patterns, animals and animals turning into humans, often with regional culture infused. It has been achieved through chemical use. Rhythmic drumming, chanting and contemplative states could induce the experience, Buddhists would agree. 
A sense of being 'watched over' is commonly noted by ancient and modern accounts.

When Einstein (and others, Crick)  did his famous thought experiments he accessed information in an unconventional way. Maybe that was key for some civilizations. Angkor Wat in Cambodia is also a marvel and a mystery.


Edited by Vanuatu - Yesterday at 05:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Today at 17:16
Communication and patronage. Without telling people about your discoveries - and in some societies it could get you horribly executed - no-one learns about it. There's no cross-fertilisation of ideas. On the other hand, without patronage and investment from the wealthy classes (such as happened in ancient Rome), no-one sees invention as a worthwhile career path and invention remains a localised and temporary phenomenon linked to bright (and sometimes courageous) people here and there.
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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