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Space and spaceships

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2011 at 21:51
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

The "Age of Flight" has had its hundred years and it is way past the time for reality to take hold.
 
Well, the dream is not over yet, even though the enthusiasm of the days of Gerard K. ONeill perhaps is over (for the moment. That can certainly change).
 
Front cover of ONeills book about colonies in Space
 
The interior of one of ONeills gigantic Space colonies.
 
A Wiki entry about the colonies:
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 26 Apr 2011 at 21:52
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 07:50
There is a very valid reason why all falls into the realm of fantasy and science fiction. We are organisms associated with a very singular biomass totally dependent upon the unique conditions associated with a stellar moment in time and space. Just to speak of space "colonies" underscores to what a high degree we are prisoners of Sol's landscape.

Edited by drgonzaga - 27 Apr 2011 at 14:01
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 11:50
Baloney. Man will conquer space, for sure. Giving it doesn't perish in a nuclear war, a comet strike or another cosmic accident.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 14:10
Thank you for proving my point Penguin. Along with the antiquated vocabulary of "colonies", you've added another archaism from the annals of vainglory: conquer! Guess those erstwhile adelantados slashing with their poniards and other European "invaders" attempting their "land grabs" weren't so malevolent after all in their "development" of Near SpaceEvil Smile!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 14:47
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:


Since everyone has missed the two most obvious spaceships I am bound to post them now;


I don't know if anyone was familiar with the history of the Soviet Buran Program, but from what i have read, because of their initials fears of the shuttle program being used against them, they began to develop their own...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_program

File:Buran on An-225 (Le Bourget 1989) 1.JPEG

File:OK-GLI Technik Museum Speyer 2008 12.JPG

File:Soyuz, Space Shuttle, Buran comparison.svg



Edited by Panther - 27 Apr 2011 at 14:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Apr 2011 at 14:52
Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:


not much of an entry but here it goes:






Oh my... the memories!

Here is my feeble offering Big smile

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_meDXtIMA05I/TDP1q7-Sx8I/AAAAAAAAAmo/ZHeS4_ntOdA/s1600/spaceballs+we+brake.png

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 05:02
As for "space tourism", Imagine near space populated by this craft:
 
 
Oh,honey let's take in the rings of Saturn...
 
Let us accept reality and present the actual "costs" of such ventures and start looking for some Queen willing "to pawn" her jewels so as to cover the sextillions involvedShocked!


Edited by drgonzaga - 28 Apr 2011 at 05:05
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 20:39
Then we have the concept of a a space ark, a huge vessel where we can put some of the remains of life on Earth, if we are crazy enough to destroy it, and give it some kind of refuge in outer space. This idea was explored in the film Silent Running from 1972.
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 28 Apr 2011 at 20:47
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Apr 2011 at 20:45
Another interesting idea is spaceships, colonies or habitats in hollowed out asteroids (as the one in the David Hardy painting in the OP). This theme is explored among other in George Zebrowskis book Macrolife: a Mobile Utopia where humanity leaves Earth, travelling in similar vessels.
 
GeorgeZebrowski Macrolife.jpg
 
The term Macrolife comes from:
Quote Scientist Dandridge M. Cole originated the term Macro Life in his 1961 book The Ultimate Human Society, though the idea of using asteroids as mobile societal containers is a common theme in science, and science fiction.
(Quote from Wikipedia)


Edited by Carcharodon - 28 Apr 2011 at 20:46
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 05:51
Er, Carch, it is not in any way, shape, or form a "common theme in science"! If you know anything about "asteroids" then you know all talk about "mobile societal containers" (talk about Newspeak) is far-out fiction. What next? There's No Place Like Spome!!!!!
 
Perhaps you are ripe for encounter with an Apollo Object?


Edited by drgonzaga - 30 Apr 2011 at 04:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 11:31
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Then we have the concept of a a space ark, a huge vessel where we can put some of the remains of life on Earth, if we are crazy enough to destroy it, and give it some kind of refuge in outer space. This idea was explored in the film Silent Running from 1972.
 


Come on Carch! Why to waste so much space if you could preserve the DNA of a thousand species in a box.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 21:29
Ah, yes, let's fill up rockets with DNA and seed the galaxies--or better said pollute space with irrelevant trash.
 
If it ain't got relevance to down here it ain't going to happen out there. Apparently, no one is willing to play this game by the numbers and their account books.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 21:52
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Come on Carch! Why to waste so much space if you could preserve the DNA of a thousand species in a box.
 
DNA is not enough, to get organisms to live and work they must function in some sort of context. Thats why the best we can do is to preserve the biodiversity and ecological systems here on Earth. If we fail to do that, at least we need to give a part of that biodiversity some room in artifical space arks (if it is possible at all).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 21:55
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Er, Carch, it is not in any way, shape, pr form a "common theme in science"! If you know anything about "asteroids" then you know all talk about "mobile societal containers" (talk about Newspeak) is far-out fiction. What next? There's No Place Like Spome!!!!!
 
Perhaps you are ripe for encounter with an Apollo Object?
 
Hollowed out asteroids may not be a common theme in todays science but indeed in Science Fiction.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 22:02
By the way, perhaps it is time for some eye gymnastics. Here is a 3D version of Star Trek:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Apr 2011 at 22:13
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

By the way, perhaps it is time for some eye gymnastics. Here is a 3D version of Star Trek:
 


Okay, i give up. What's missing from the picture on the right?Clown


Edited by Panther - 29 Apr 2011 at 22:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Darius of Parsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 01:08
The arrangement of the stars is different...Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 01:26
While we are at it: Here is another 3D stereoscopic image of our future in space:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 02:45

In the Star Trek one, the letters on the left are bent (check the left edge of the 'K')

In the other one, there's a gap between the figure's arm and the landiing strut and what looks like a fuel can on the ground. There's no gap in the left picture. Also in the left picture the tennis racket overlaps the rings of Saturn whereas on the right there's quite a big gap between them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 05:06

All seems like models of vacuum cleaners..

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 09:00
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Come on Carch! Why to waste so much space if you could preserve the DNA of a thousand species in a box.
 
DNA is not enough, to get organisms to live and work they must function in some sort of context. Thats why the best we can do is to preserve the biodiversity and ecological systems here on Earth. If we fail to do that, at least we need to give a part of that biodiversity some room in artifical space arks (if it is possible at all).


All you need to keep life in space is a structure that provides protection for radiation, artificial gravity, energy, air, water and a source of food. Technology can do it without the need to have large unproductive forests. Of course, it could be beautiful to have artificial habitats in space, but they would be more like weekend parks rather than a necesary thing to survive. Meanwhile, the biodiversity can be preserved frozen (or even by storing the digital records of the plant DNA in magnetic media) Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 12:27
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

All seems like models of vacuum cleaners..



LOL Yes, i suppose so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 21:23
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

In the Star Trek one, the letters on the left are bent (check the left edge of the 'K')

In the other one, there's a gap between the figure's arm and the landiing strut and what looks like a fuel can on the ground. There's no gap in the left picture. Also in the left picture the tennis racket overlaps the rings of Saturn whereas on the right there's quite a big gap between them.

 
I suppose you do realise that those pictures are sterescopic images and that if you do some eye gymnastics two images merges into one three dimensional?
 
Here is a little tutorial how to view such pictures:
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 30 Apr 2011 at 21:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 21:30
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


Come on Carch! Why to waste so much space if you could preserve the DNA of a thousand species in a box.
 
DNA is not enough, to get organisms to live and work they must function in some sort of context. Thats why the best we can do is to preserve the biodiversity and ecological systems here on Earth. If we fail to do that, at least we need to give a part of that biodiversity some room in artifical space arks (if it is possible at all).


All you need to keep life in space is a structure that provides protection for radiation, artificial gravity, energy, air, water and a source of food. Technology can do it without the need to have large unproductive forests. Of course, it could be beautiful to have artificial habitats in space, but they would be more like weekend parks rather than a necesary thing to survive. Meanwhile, the biodiversity can be preserved frozen (or even by storing the digital records of the plant DNA in magnetic media) Wink
 
Well, but if you want the DNA to ever become actual living beings again you must solve the technique with transforming it back, which would require some artifical vomb, nourishment and so on. Then you must have food, soil and similar for the animal and plant to actually survive. And many organisms also have very specific requirements for survival so if you cannot mimic their whole environment with all its biotic and abiotic factors they will not survive. To just keep a record over biodiversity without being able to recreate it is rather meaningless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Apr 2011 at 23:46
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

In the Star Trek one, the letters on the left are bent (check the left edge of the 'K')

In the other one, there's a gap between the figure's arm and the landiing strut and what looks like a fuel can on the ground. There's no gap in the left picture. Also in the left picture the tennis racket overlaps the rings of Saturn whereas on the right there's quite a big gap between them.

 
I suppose you do realise that those pictures are sterescopic images and that if you do some eye gymnastics two images merges into one three dimensional?
 
Here is a little tutorial how to view such pictures:
 
It's more fun to try and spot the differences. In a masochistic kind of way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 11:42
Originally posted by Carcharodon Carcharodon wrote:

Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

The "Age of Flight" has had its hundred years and it is way past the time for reality to take hold.

 

Well, the dream is not over yet, even though the enthusiasm of the days of Gerard K. ONeill perhaps is over (for the moment. That can certainly change).

 


Front cover of ONeills book about colonies in Space


 


The interior of one of ONeills gigantic Space colonies.


 

A Wiki entry about the colonies:


 


While I was not really familar with O'Neill, it is very interesting because he seems to have influenced some very famous SciFI writers, like Arthur C. Clarke, and his "RAMA" series, as well a Larry Niven, and his RINGWORLD" books, and possibly even Brian Aldiss, and his great novel entitled "Starship!"

http://www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/a/brian-aldiss/starship.htm

Thanks,
Ron

Edited by opuslola - 02 Jun 2011 at 11:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jun 2011 at 12:10
The first to think in space stations was Konstantin Tsiolkowski, and Werner Von Braun proposed his famous bike wheel station.

Edited by pinguin - 02 Jun 2011 at 12:10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bucket head Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 09:33
here are a couple more:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jul 2011 at 10:42
I remember those! The one of the right is from UFO and the left is from 1999. Great SF series of the 70s. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cezar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jul 2011 at 20:26
Too big to fit in here : Doando.
A 1969 novel by Romulus Barbulescu and George Anania.
Doando (Life without life in Vuund) is a fully automated planetsize spaceship. A dying extremely advanced civilisation launched 20 of these to seek and find a suitable civilisation + a planet. Doando finds and captures a Vuund and a Terran starship and eventually helps Vuundo to avoid some sort of global cataclism and engulfes (not a conflict here - there is a beautiful united utopian communist society that has an urge to help everyone) Terra IV (or III, I don't remember exactly) to fly back to it's constructors so that these would be saved from extinction (some sort of genetic disease that requires a general anabiosis lasting about two to three centuries). Roughly, Doando is a sferical starship about 15000-20000 km in diameter and has a gravitron engine that allowes it to travel faster than light.
To big for AE or the internet since I couldn't find any pictures with it. I'll try and scan the plans from the original book.
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