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Space Exploration.

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toyomotor View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 15:26
Do the countries involved in space exploration really need to be?
 
In my lifetime, I've seen the first space satellite launched, the first man in space, the first man on the moon and so on. But I've reaped no benefit from the trillions of dollars spent.
 
In the foreseeable future, is humankind going to see any direct benefits-I think the answer is a resounding NO!
 
By all means launch space satellites for communications purposes, and for surveillance, including weather too. But it should stop there, at least for a few years.
 
How can we justify the expenditure of trillions of dollars annually on Space Exploration when there are millions of people dying from malnutrition and related diseases?
 
We need to get our priorities in order!
 
It seems to me to be a case of little boys saying, "Mine's bigger than yours".
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Captain Vancouver View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 21:20
I think that with science, it is sometimes tough to know what experimentation is going to bring, without just plunging ahead, and doing some projects. Would the original Apollo scientists foreseen all the spin-offs of space technology? Probably not.

And even if there are few real economic benefits in the future, greater understanding of the universe is, as they say in the Visa ads, priceless.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2014 at 21:41
There are some gains, but there was a life before any human made artifact went to the skies.
Then there has been the costs, but perhaps there also was made some false expectations. Particularly when it comes to human settlement, since there is none, and more generally the idea of an "escape" from earthly limits that may well be an illusion.
For extended uses of satellites in the very near future I come to think the potential use to get better information from "closed" countries or parts of countries.  If independent organisations and media could get those informations for the "public" perhaps there would be a result of a more clear and unbiased view of some events, not least conflicts? (better sources,  more insight in "who did what"). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 02:30
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Are you serious, you would probably not be sitting at your desk, or using your smartphone typing this without all that exploration just to mention the immediate effects, not to mention the progress in other fields that zero gravity brought fourth. 

It started with competition, but the side-effects are numerous and quite essential to the life you're living now. 
 
Yes, I'm serious.
 
Development of technology is not reliant on space exploration, nothing I do in my everyday life is dependant on the results of space exploration.
 
What immediate effects?
 
What are the side effects that are "numerous and quite essential to the life I'm living now?"
 
All I'm saying is that the trillions of dollars spent world wide on space exploration could be put to better use here on earth for a few years, and I reckon a few million starving people around the world would support me.
 
I can accept that the knowledge gained of "The Big Bang" and "black holes" may be of benefit at some stage in the very distant future, but why not look after the problems of the here and now first?
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 03:04
I don't agree. Satellite photography, for instance, is key to preserve natural resources, and you can't get a similar degree of precision with aerial photography. Without GPS people would still be missing when going to adventures. Without communication satellites you wouldn't have as many choices of communications as you have today. And this is just the beginning.

What is wasted in space is just a small fraction of what the superpowers, particularly the U.S., wastes in weapons. If somethings has to be cut, be it weapons rather than space exploration and business.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 03:26
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I don't agree. Satellite photography, for instance, is key to preserve natural resources, and you can't get a similar degree of precision with aerial photography. Without GPS people would still be missing when going to adventures. Without communication satellites you wouldn't have as many choices of communications as you have today. And this is just the beginning.

What is wasted in space is just a small fraction of what the superpowers, particularly the U.S., wastes in weapons. If somethings has to be cut, be it weapons rather than space exploration and business.

 
Pinguin:
 
 You either did not read what I wrote, or you've misinterpreted what I meant.
 
I'm not against things like communications satellites or satellites for weather surveillance or for security reasons.
 
What I'm talking about is things like these "Deep Space" probes, and looking for new planets, none of which have, imho, any immediate impact on life on earth, and things like that.
 
I agree that satellite technology is having amazing effects on the way human kind develops.
 
And we still don't know enough about our oceans and what lies beneath them.
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 11:34
Quote What I'm talking about is things like these "Deep Space" probes, and looking for new planets, none of which have, imho, any immediate impact on life on earth, and things like that.

What you mean is - these things are not important to you. I'm sure some early explorers struggled to convince anyone of the benefits of finding out what was out there (unless they mentioned treasure of course).
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 14:30
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

Quote What I'm talking about is things like these "Deep Space" probes, and looking for new planets, none of which have, imho, any immediate impact on life on earth, and things like that.

What you mean is - these things are not important to you. I'm sure some early explorers struggled to convince anyone of the benefits of finding out what was out there (unless they mentioned treasure of course).
 
No, that infers selfishness on my part, which is definitely not the case.
 
I'm not against education either.
 
I'd like to see some more obvious problems on earth fixed before we delve into outer space, that's all.
 
Tell me how space exploration has enhanced your life, personally that is.
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Apr 2014 at 16:29
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:



 
And we still don't know enough about our oceans and what lies beneath them.
 
 
 
 
 
 
It is only a guess, but in a few years "we" (or anybody seriously interested) will probably be able to know very much more details than today. Thanks to among other things equivalents of unmanned aircrafts. Then anything flying or sailing will not so easily "disappear".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 02:38
According to the net, the NASA budget for this year is about 17 billion. By way of comparison, that is a bit less than half the budget for your captains relatively small and remote Canadian province. It is slightly more than the latest iteration of aircraft carriers for the US navy, the Gerald R Ford, coming in at 13 billion. For this amount, we have found out that we are likely not alone in the universe, that there are untold planets out there, some quite like ours, and that there are amazing wonders in our own solar system, like active volcanoes on other planets and satellites, ejections of ice crystals from others, and quite possibly lakes and oceans buried under ice caps on other worlds. These things give us stuff to ruminate about. And really, it is all about rumination if you ask me, as that is what makes us human. Honey bees can be very productive, beavers can be industrious, dolphins can be playful, and dogs loyal, but so far it is only us who can spend time in rumination.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 07:59
Captain: You are far too kind.
 
As I ramble through my ruminations, resting now and then, I'll resist recalcitrance.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 12:37
Quote
I'd like to see some more obvious problems on earth fixed before we delve into outer space, that's all.
 
Tell me how space exploration has enhanced your life, personally that is.


Most of the problems you would refer to are endemic and not easily solved, if indeed any solution would ever be possible. A paradise is neither likely, nor with respect to our biological side, entirely a good thing. You see, creatures on Earth become success stories from struggle. Now I know that sounds a bit communist but it has very real implications for life on Earth - creatures that have no worries become passive and docile, unable to meet challenges when they do occur, and once the balance is tipped they go extinct quite rapidly.

But as regards space exploration, it represents the possibility of expansion of our species into new enviroments and continued existence, plus it gives hope for the future, employment to a good many people, and outlet for our instinct to achieve and learn, and has basically formed the basis for a large range of entertainment in the science fiction genre.

So if you'll excuse me, I have a few rows of space aliens to zap...
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Apr 2014 at 15:38
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:



But as regards space exploration, it represents the possibility of expansion of our species into new enviroments and continued existence
I don´t see that idea as necessarily good. I find neither evidence that humans can come to a place outside earth were they can live for long (without being entirely dependent upon terrestrial support), nor that a life other places would be desirable. Except for short periods no single human being was ever living other places than inside the terrestrial "biosphere". 
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

 plus it gives hope for the future, employment to a good many people, and outlet for our instinct to achieve and learn, and has basically formed the basis for a large range of entertainment in the science fiction genre. 

So if you'll excuse me, I have a few rows of space aliens to zap...
There would have been entertainment anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Apr 2014 at 05:13
Originally posted by caldrail caldrail wrote:

[quote]

Most of the problems you would refer to are endemic and not easily solved, if indeed any solution would ever be possible.
 
How about clean water technology and agrarian advances in Africa, for example?
 
A paradise is neither likely, nor with respect to our biological side, entirely a good thing. You see, creatures on Earth become success stories from struggle. Now I know that sounds a bit communist but it has very real implications for life on Earth - creatures that have no worries become passive and docile, unable to meet challenges when they do occur, and once the balance is tipped they go extinct quite rapidly.
 
Not asking for paradise, just better living standards, surely that's not too much to ask?
 

But as regards space exploration, it represents the possibility of expansion of our species into new enviroments and continued existence, plus it gives hope for the future, employment to a good many people, and outlet for our instinct to achieve and learn, and has basically formed the basis for a large range of entertainment in the science fiction genre.

So if you'll excuse me, I have a few rows of space aliens to zap...

 

And having our children chained to their techno toys rather than healthy outdoor sport is a good thing?

 

 




Edited by toyomotor - 10 Apr 2014 at 05:14
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