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Space race

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    Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 02:44
A history from contemporary times that really got me cought is the Space Race. What an emotion I feel as a child following the adventures of the superheroes of the time, the astronauts.
The Soviet Union and the United States compited in an absurd, but emotianal, sport competition to reach the space. The details were amazing. How not loving the glorious successes of that competition, and how be unsensible to its tragedies!

And I found a full series from the BBC (In youtube with captions in Spanish but dialogs in English) that shows every single detail of the space race, up to the Apollo XI, centered on the lives of the two genious of that competition: Sergei Korolov and Werner Von Braun.

This is the first part of the first chapter. You can start here.



Soviet space program
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_space_program



Curiosities. Given the soviet secrecy, not many details of the Soviet space program were known, at least they were a success. Today we know the failures of the soviet attempt to reach the moon. Some curious pictures of that attempt.

The N1 rocket versus the Saturn V. The N1 failed in the first try and the program was abandoned. Korolev has already died by then, and the soviet program lacked his leadership.



Pictures of the N1 and Saturn V






The Russian lunar lander, a lot smaller than the American



Soviet equivalent to the modules of command and service (LOK)











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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 10:27

It seems however appropriate to question the idea this age is a "space age", or if there there was such an age on the past. In a way I think htere is not and never was a "space age", and that we still are as dependent on earth as always. So far there still live millions of people for each one that ever went above the lower parts of the atmosphere, and ressources from above has so far been irrelevant, except valuable data for scientists (but is it not to stretch the meaning of "ressource"?)  "Space" has so far in no way been anything like a "new frontier" in the sense of available new ressources for use, though of course the exploration is a fascinating story.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 11:42
Indeed. The space race happened 40 years ago, and since Apollo XVII it literally stopped.
We aren't today closer to conquer space than in the 50s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 14:32
The space race was propaganda on both sides I am afraid.  When one side "won" it, there was no real need to do much more than use the technology for military and communication purposes, and of course to keep the new space bureaucracies employed.

@ pinguin:  I really liked the old Disney "Tomorrowland" material you posted - great memories there.

Although that was exciting for the imagination of a ten year old at the time, it is unfortunate that it seems the entire concept of conquering space is a waste of money.

Science fiction = great stuff!

Space exploration = extravagant headlines that are not remotely worth the expense. 

  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 16:07
@ pinguin:  I really liked the old Disney "Tomorrowland" material you posted - great memories there.

That should not come as any surprise...the Disney Studios had one of the earliest NASA contracts and was responsible for the animation of much of the material that shaped public perceptions of the "space program".
 
 
Other material from NASA archives:
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Feb 2011 at 21:46
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:

The space race was propaganda on both sides I am afraid.  When one side "won" it, there was no real need to do much more than use the technology for military and communication purposes, and of course to keep the new space bureaucracies employed.

@ pinguin:  I really liked the old Disney "Tomorrowland" material you posted - great memories there.

Although that was exciting for the imagination of a ten year old at the time, it is unfortunate that it seems the entire concept of conquering space is a waste of money.

Science fiction = great stuff!

Space exploration = extravagant headlines that are not remotely worth the expense. 

  


Yes, it was a propaganda race mainly, but there were many achievements, and extraordinary heroes in both sides. What it is curious is that Soviet secrecy didn't allow to know the details of theirs program while we knew every detail of the American. Only now, decades later and many declasiffied documents, we know who was Korolev, that the Russians really tried to get to the moon and failed, but now we can see theirs blueprints and gear! That fascinates me.




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 08:21
Not only propaganda, but the development of technologies had very much to do with the cold war and the race to be able to destroy and annihilate the opponent superpower. Before that the relationship to the world war and the German dream of a superweapon to reverse its more and more desperate situation was intimate, though i admit my limited knowledge about names of persons "changing side" other that von Braun.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 13:06
It is also interesting the development of the suttles. The Soviet suttle was technically superior to the American but, unfortunatelly for them, they got broke and we never found out.












Edited by pinguin - 22 Feb 2011 at 13:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 13:44
Oh great Soviet propaganda second-hand! Whether one can call something that failed at operation "technically superior" can only appeal to the desperate in search of an argument.
 
 
Given the fact that there was buy one Buran launch (unmanned) in 1988; your hyperbole is rather unsubstantiated, but then that's never stopped you before in your dialectical digressions; hence, at least choose better sites from which to cut and paste imagery.
 
 
At least they are making money by selling stray pieces of this Soviet era "white elephant".
 
Then there is the reality:
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 13:52
Your anti-soviet bashing is quite ridiculous. The Buran was technically sound, but the Soviet Union was already broke to support such expensive program. Soviets had some merits, too, at least in the space race.

And also, soviets were pioneers in space stations.

Salyut 1, the first space station


Salyut 7


Skylab, the first and only fully American space station







Mir Space station (first multi-module space station)






Edited by pinguin - 22 Feb 2011 at 14:00
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 14:14
No, it is your insistance on the extraneous that requires bashing. Answer the principal question: Why a space station other than as platform for guinea pig experiments? Start here:
 
 
Now I have to "edit" a declaration made elsewhere:
 
GUINEA PIGS IN SPACE!
 
Besides, all you are doing is wasting our bandwidth. If anyone is interested in the subject with respect to the Soviet era, they can simply go here and be done with it:
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 22 Feb 2011 at 14:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 14:33
Who will win in the end?

Russia joins the US and China in spaceplane dream

X-37b

General’s hint raises stakes in the race to develop a robotic military space shuttle

LAST UPDATED 4:32 PM, FEBRUARY 7, 2011

The prospect of a return to the heady days of the space race has been raised after a Russian space chief hinted that his researchers are working on their own version of America's Boeing X-37B - also known as the top secret space warplane.

General-Lieutenant Oleg Ostapenko, Russia's Space Troops Commander, told RIA Novosti: "Something has been done along these lines, but as to whether we will use it, only time will tell."

The X-37B landed - autonomously - in December after a secret 220-day mission in space, prompting much debate about what the spacecraft had been up to. The US Air Force hasn't been especially open about the mission, but has pitched the X-37 series as a kind of fast-turnaround orbital science lab which would allow hardware to be tested in space without the expense of a satellite launch.

The explanation has done nothing to silence the conspiracy theorists, however. For a start, the X-37B, which looks like a smaller version of the soon-to-be-retired Space Shuttle, is funded by the shadowy Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa), which has the stated aim of "maintaining technological superiority of the US military and preventing technological surprise".

Like most of the United States' space programme, it has dual-use capabilities that could conceivably allow it to steal foreign satellites from orbit.

Russians, meanwhile, will hope Ostapenko's "something has been done along these lines" does not refer to the Buran, the old Soviet Union's attempt at a space shuttle. The project did at least have the distinction of beating the Americans to an automated landing by a full 22 years, but it was canned after only one space flight, in 1988.

The Buran and America's Space Shuttle were designed with the express intention of taking the Cold War to space. Documents declassified by Moscow show that the now-defunct MIR space station was intended as a base for up to four Soviet wingless space shuttle bombers.

So it is not beyond the realms of possibility that Russia might be taking an interest in the top secret space plans of their old enemy.

Vladimir Shcherbakov, deputy editor of Vzlyot, a Russian aerospace journal, told the Christian Science Monitor he thinks Russia has much to fear from a space plane that could take out all its satellites and could well be working on its own version of the X-37.

"The Americans haven't declared who their X-37 is to be used against. They just say they're developing new technologies.

"When the Boeing X-37 was tested, it raised questions from the bosses about whether we were building one, too. But this is a secret subject in the US, and even more so here. So no one will tell you for sure."

But one thing is for sure - this time the development of a space plane is not a two-horse race. China is known to be developing its own spaceplane, the Shenlong or 'divine dragon'.

Who will win? Russia, with its new-found oil and gas wealth, booming, cash-rich China, or credit- crunched USA? Uh-oh


Read more: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/74770,news-comment,news-politics,russia-joins-the-us-and-china-in-spaceplane-dream#ixzz1EhM3gEvf
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pikeshot1600 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 14:40
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

It is also interesting the development of the suttles. The Soviet suttle was technically superior to the American but, unfortunatelly for them, they got broke and we never found out.












Seems to be a copy-cat rather than a technically superior product.  Has it been used by Russia since their finances have improved?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 14:53
The answer is no! This is Kliper--
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
What the Penguin has failed to mention is that his pic above is not even a Russian spacecraft!
 

X-37B unmanned space plane returns to Earth

X-37B is an unmanned US Air Force space plane. The X-37B made a successful return on Friday after 220 days in Earth orbit.

X-37b

This NASA image, obtained on December 1, shows an artist's rendition of the X-37B as it might look like orbiting Earth. The X-37B, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle 1, was launched atop an Atlas 5 rocket on April 22. It has been circling the Earth since then and performing a mission that has been covered in secrecy by the US Air Force.

AFP Photo/NASA/Handout/Newscom



Edited by drgonzaga - 22 Feb 2011 at 14:55
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 14:57
The Kliper was cancelled..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 15:16
Well I finally got you to admit that there is no "space race" and that the Russians are essentially cooperating with the international consortium. As for all the rest, nothing but curio pieces. Now let us begin to harvest all of those "enemy" satellites...
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 15:18
Originally posted by pikeshot1600 pikeshot1600 wrote:


Seems to be a copy-cat rather than a technically superior product.  Has it been used by Russia since their finances have improved?


Nope. Russia is not into large investments anymore. It seems non-commercial space programs are over, or getting cheaper, not only in the U.S. but in Russia as well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 15:19
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Well I finally got you to admit that there is no "space race" and that the Russians are essentially cooperating with the international consortium. As for all the rest, nothing but curio pieces. Now let us begin to harvest all of those "enemy" satellites...
 


The race is over. Major failures on both sides ended it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 17:11
Rather facile declaration that and, in essence, incorrect. The grunt work has now been entrusted to the Russian Federation while the sophisticated technology has become the concern of NASA. However, let us not neglect the "dirty little secret" here.
 
The old dismissal of prolonged presence in "space":
 
The Effects of Weightlessness on the Human Organism
 
 
The Oh! Oh! "Houston we've got a problem" Moment:
 
Weightlessness and the Human Body
 
 
The Real Future:
 
ROBOTS IN SPACE!
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 17:50
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Rather facile declaration that and, in essence, incorrect. The grunt work has now been entrusted to the Russian Federation while the sophisticated technology has become the concern of NASA. However, let us not neglect the "dirty little secret" here.


Facile? U.S. Failures?

Apollo VII

Challenger

Columbia
Dead: 17


Soviet Failures?
Explosion of a rocket during part of the project: 90 dead.
4 astronouts dead in missions.
Failure of the N1

So, there has been failures in both sides.
 
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:


The old dismissal of prolonged presence in "space":
 
The Effects of Weightlessness on the Human Organism


Not interested in yours divagations. Open yours own threads. For instance, replacing humans by robots in space is like replacing your wife by an inflatable toy. Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 18:37
It sometimes seems to me that JFK's and Khrushchev's most important achievement was diverting attention from the missile race as an exercise in weapons development into a kind of sporting event that psychologically boosted morale instead of diminishing it.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 18:44
Well, thanks to them we have satellite communications, including TV, telephone, Internet, besides GPS, google earth, etc. Not all was wasted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 19:13
I don't think any of it was wasted. Certainly shooting rockets into space was a lot better than shooting them at each other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2011 at 19:24
Indeed. Great point!

And thanks God they didn't militarize space. Do you remember the misile launchers of the movie "2001: Space Oddysey?". They are shown fast in a scene on that movie. However, there were projects that wanted to implement it. A picture.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 15:38
Some people seem to think that space will be the next battleground. They talk about the neccesity of gaining high ground and they fear about new players in the space arms race (like China).
 
This subject was adressed in a documentary that recently was shown on Swedish Television:
 
Pax Americana and the Weaponization of Space
 
 


Edited by Carcharodon - 14 Mar 2011 at 15:40
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote opuslola Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2011 at 18:16
I still have some of the hard-bound books don by Lester Del Ray, concerning "Man in Space", etc.!
 
As a matter of fact, I have quite a few somewhat old things, like newspapers, small metal cars (mostly pre-1972), an invitiation to the funeral of JFK, and other strange and assorted materials.
 
Some day, I  might even make an inventory of all of the stuff I have accumulated?  Nah!
 
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