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Spratly Islands Dispute

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literaryClarity View Drop Down
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    Posted: 03 Jun 2015 at 08:55
Weigh in my friends.  Will a few more months be enough to decide the outcome?
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jun 2015 at 12:33
Stalemate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorvald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jun 2015 at 12:28
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands

Who do you think holds the best cards in terms of claiming?

http://germanicrealm.informe.com/forum/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Yingui Lexicon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 14:58
China is piling more, more, more, more and more sand on the reefs. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 16:05
China has shown finesse in these sorts of matters.  From the first days of tamped earth to create the fortifications around a city to creating crazy skyscrapers in a matter of days not years.  We can only imagine the extent to which China will continue their piling of sand on reefs.  Perhaps many beautiful structures will arise.




Edited by literaryClarity - 16 Jun 2015 at 16:08
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 02:40
Originally posted by Thorvald Thorvald wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands

Who do you think holds the best cards in terms of claiming?
 
China has more military resources than the other claimants combined, so I guess China owns them.Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 08:40
It's dismaying that China hasn't seen fit to at least give a nod towards international law in this case, which is not a good omen for the future. We seem doomed to repeat the mistakes and miscalculations of the past.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 10:03
I thought the argument they were using was that it was beyond reproach because they are just piling sand on their meager pieces of territory.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 12:02
The accepted guideline is a 12 mile sovereign limit, and 200 mile economic zone. Clearly, China has decided to be the dark horse here, in complete disregard of the smaller nations in the area.

This is a major maritime artery for China, and there may be oil and other resources under the sea bed, so its interest there is understandable, if not legal. 

Unfortunately, western powers have often also tended to see laws as eminently flexible, if the situation requires, through history right up to recent times. This doesn't strengthen the hand of the international community in confronting China. Neither does a growing Chinese military.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 17:12
If the Chinese see it as sovereignty then the lines of the 12 miles are extended outward.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 01:37
Yes, and they may have some modest claim to some of these Islands. The usual route though, when the 12 and 200 mile limits run up against each other, is to draw a line that more or less simulates the middle meeting of such boundaries. If a passage is 200 miles wide, and each authority on either side claims sovereignty, then it usually  means a line at about the 100 mile mark.

From my reading of maps I've seen, the Chinese claim is basically everything, 90-95%. In some spots the line runs close enough to national states coastlines, that surfers could conceivably be arrested for illegal entry if they were foolish enough to go for the big roller way out there.

The unsavory aspect of this is that it seems China has zero intention of negotiating, based purely on the fact that the littoral nations involved are so much smaller and less powerful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 07:47
But the Chinese are not claiming that the economic zone gives them sovereignty.  They are saying the reef islands are sovereignty.  They only claim 12 miles out of the islands.  If you have 1 cm of a permanent reef you claim then you have 24 miles diameter for the meager size land but anything you add/reclaim to it will not give you more.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 07:48
Either way, China will definitely win. It's because China won't confront the USA with military in the first place. First thing to know about China: China doesn't do any outside of their current border that they will definitely lose. This implies that China is serious about succeding their ways. But Americans are often naive that China will attack the USA in a militaristic way.

I think the USA will become the last world superpower and every country will live happily ever after without any power struggles. Because thinking that superpowers will exist forever is emotionally depressing and oppressive.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 07:55
There's no actual super power status like good or evil light and dark, it's just what the international community deems a nation that has an extraordinary amount of resources.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 11:06
It is also dependant on the ability to organize those resources which I suppose is why this topic exists.  If we just assumed that China being the big dog on the block it would necessarily muster sufficient international support then we wouldn't be having the discussion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 11:21
You're talking about alliances.  Being a super power or not has nothing to do with what priveleges alliances can afford and who they are made with.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 17:49
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

But the Chinese are not claiming that the economic zone gives them sovereignty.  They are saying the reef islands are sovereignty.  They only claim 12 miles out of the islands.  If you have 1 cm of a permanent reef you claim then you have 24 miles diameter for the meager size land but anything you add/reclaim to it will not give you more.

My reading of it is they are claiming a lot more than 12 miles from a few reefs, but almost the entire sea. The usual norm in relatively enclosed waters is to divide up the sea based on distance from the shores of joining nations. That China seems uninterested in the consensus of the international community is not a good sign for the future.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 20:14
It looks like they are expanding their 200 mile range from those islands.  I think it is a matter of interpreting the law.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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