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Spread of humans

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fantasus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 08:16
Originally posted by Omar al Hashim Omar al Hashim wrote:

For the record, Australia was settled at least 60,000 years ago (if you ask aboriginal folk lore man originated from Australia). 60,000 - or even 40,000 - years ago there was a land bridge between New Guinea and Australia so there was no need to use boats to get to Australia.
 
Even today, now the land bridge has been flooded, it is possible to cross between Cape York and Papua in a very basic canoe. Island hopping along the way.
 
 
PS. More interesting than getting to the Australian continent is getting to Tasmania. Because that would require crossing the Bass Strait, which to the best of my knowledge was never a land bridge, and has reasonably rough seas.
Yes, but I know of no landbridge connecting the Asiatic land mass all the way with the Australian one. I think there always were a stretch of open water somewhere near Lombok, but the exact possition is of less importance for my argument. Somewhere people had to get across the waters tens of thousands of years ago, and I wonder if there is any direct evidence they had any  kinds of means to do so.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 08:21
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Crossing an ocean is not a piece of cake. For instance, the Manila gallion crossing from Manila, Phillipines, to Acapulco, Mexico, took 6 months to 1 year each way, and usually half the crew died during the trip.

So, those fantasies about primitive peoples paddling all the way across the largest oceans are nothing more than fantasies. Few peoples had the technology for doing so. Among them the Polynesians and the Europeans.
 Some repetition: crossing much shorter distances were discussed here, and at an age we miss direct evidence of any kinds of "boats". And the distance between the Asiatic and North American landmasses are not that great everywhere, there has even been a landbridge (therefore of course, we do not need any boat trips, storm or tsunami to explain its early populations, though we do not know exactly how it happened).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 11:55
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Australia and Papua has been inhabited for tens of thousands of years, and I am not so sure about the time for the first things human made for transport on water, only that at some time it was invented. And I do not at all agree the first, undoubtly very primitive vessels were only a "small thing" or of little significance. On the contrary i think water transport was one of the primary human achievements of all time. Just imagine to be able to cross lakes or small straits or rivers man untill then could not pass. Rivers may very well be to wide, to wild or to filled with hungry predators to swim across, so they may have been formidable barriers  once. Then we may add the possible gains from being able to exploit the rich ressources of the waterways, and the possibillity of easier movement over distances.
 
Rivers and lakes except very big ones are not really relevant to the issue. Wherever you can see the other side of the water there's no problem: population pressure and the kind of migratory drive observed in primiive tribes generally, will pretty soon find a way across for people in groups.
 
The questionable issue is involved with how early humans managed to settle islands that they  didn't even know existed.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 12:34
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Australia and Papua has been inhabited for tens of thousands of years, and I am not so sure about the time for the first things human made for transport on water, only that at some time it was invented. And I do not at all agree the first, undoubtly very primitive vessels were only a "small thing" or of little significance. On the contrary i think water transport was one of the primary human achievements of all time. Just imagine to be able to cross lakes or small straits or rivers man untill then could not pass. Rivers may very well be to wide, to wild or to filled with hungry predators to swim across, so they may have been formidable barriers  once. Then we may add the possible gains from being able to exploit the rich ressources of the waterways, and the possibillity of easier movement over distances.
 
Rivers and lakes except very big ones are not really relevant to the issue. Wherever you can see the other side of the water there's no problem: population pressure and the kind of migratory drive observed in primiive tribes generally, will pretty soon find a way across for people in groups.
 
The questionable issue is involved with how early humans managed to settle islands that they  didn't even know existed.  
Except it is as possible that water transport was invented such places as elsewhere.
And it had to be somehow "invented". There must have been a time before anything like a "boat" or "floating artifact" were made, and the mere sight of an opposite coast may not in itself  have caused such an innovation, neither "population pressure" (when something can be used to explain nearly everything I get suspicious it perhaps explain very little). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Apr 2011 at 13:47
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:


OK. I see it now. Nothing that I disagree. A very early sea journey it was the conquering of Australia, that was done by dogout canoes... that was the only sea technology available 40.000 years ago.


 
There have also been theories or ideas forwarded that the ancient pre australians could have used some sort of rafts to cross from the Sunda to Sahul. I saw once an experiment with rafts of bambu where they travelled between islands in the area in such a fashion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Apr 2011 at 02:34
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

... And the distance between the Asiatic and North American landmasses are not that great everywhere, there has even been a landbridge (therefore of course, we do not need any boat trips, storm or tsunami to explain its early populations, though we do not know exactly how it happened).


Actually, the only migration reported, after the clossing of the landbridge, it is the migration of the Inuits, that came from Asia to Alaska, and then all the way from the frozen north to the Atlantic. An epic voyage.
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