| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Tang a truly Chinese dynasty?
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Tang a truly Chinese dynasty?

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
literaryClarity View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 02 May 2014
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Tang a truly Chinese dynasty?
    Posted: 14 May 2015 at 23:53
Most of the subjects of an ancient Chinese dynasty which may have carried the bulk portion of modern Han Chinese genetics exhibited in their respective regions hardly implies they carried the entirety of modern Han Chinese genetics.

In other words retrospective analysis of modern Han genetics is bound to certain time range before one anticipates the bulk of the genetics being reduced by an amount equal to the minority presence which abruptly interceded into it. It implies that as people progress into the future, such as the Han people, they increasing carry complexity and relatively speaking become increasingly "impure".

Case in point. The founders of dynasties in those ancient times. Though on numerous occassions they were the minorities of China and have created dynasties and kingdoms they end up being assimilated into the vast majority of people they encountered. In the city where great multitudes of people gathered or in the village where less crowds are drawn. The numerous dynasties and kingdoms in China are the result of turbulent times which set a number of ethnic and political entities to either rise or fall. It is those which rise that embark on the irreversible road to fusion between themselves and the majority to which they challenged with their presence within China.

Sixteen Kingdoms - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Quote
Classical Chinese historians called the period the Sixteen Kingdoms of the Five Barbarians because most of the kingdoms were founded by ethnic Xiongnu, Xianbei, Di, Jie, Qiang, and Dingling rulers who took on Chinese dynastic names. Among the handful of the states founded by Han Chinese (Former Liang, Western Liang, Ran Wei and Northern Yan), several founders had close relations with ethnic minorities. The father of Ran Min, the founder of the Ran Wei, was adopted into a Jie ruling family. Feng Ba, who is considered by some historians to be the founder of the Northern Yan, had been assimilated into Xianbei culture. Gao Yun, considered by other historians to be the Northern Yan founder, was an ethnic Korean who had been adopted by Xianbei nobility.
As the Xianbei had been well established since the time of Ran Min it may not be entirely accurate to liken the Tang dynasty to the Yuan dynasty. The Yuan having been found on the successive dissolution of completely foreign peoples coming from outside of China, one after another, was a new affair which had to be newly affirmed by the Han Chinese. The Xianbei might be said to carry less antagonism with the Han but were nonetheless, similar to Mongolian as an extraterritorial form of nationality. Therefore the extent of their presence in any dynasty occurring after the founding of China could never be so easily ignored. It would even be entirely justifiable to scrutinize the amount of foreign presence, in so private a form as that of the peculiarities of kinship and lineage of the ruling family to gauge the extent of their loyalties or conversely the loyalty of the Han towards them.

Whether the rulers of the Tang very Han like or very foreign like in their approach to things is yet another gauge on the exact nature of retentiveness in the ruling party either to avoid disengaging with old identities or to dissipate them among the masses as a form of cultural prestige. For example the tomb offerings of various Han and pre Han polities were physically assembled to symbolically act in ways different to the Tang tomb offerings, let alone the arrangement of the tomb plans which appear to be different themselves.

This unique Tang tomb offering depicting Persian or Arabian is what I presume to be a measure which conveys the favorability of various people outside the usual Han milieu during the Tang dynasty.


The typical peripheral exchange essential to China during the Han dynasty had transformed significantly with respect to the landscape of the new empire.

http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2015 at 14:47
literaryClarity quote;

"This unique Tang tomb offering depicting Persian or Arabian is what I presume to be a measure which conveys the favorability of various people outside the usual Han milieu during the Tang dynasty."


Does the contact date indicate earlier trade than previously thought?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
literaryClarity View Drop Down
Colonel
Colonel
Avatar

Joined: 02 May 2014
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 698
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 May 2015 at 19:26
The contact date with the Persians and Arabians is something i wish to know myself.  I believe the story of the Sogdians along the trade route are a testimony to that.




http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
Back to Top
Vanuatu View Drop Down
Arch Duke
Arch Duke
Avatar

Joined: 23 Feb 2015
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 1609
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 2015 at 01:43
http://mongolschinaandthesilkroad.blogspot.com/2012/03/chinese-ceramic-figure-of-sogdian-wine.html

"This monograph investigates a Tang-dynasty (618–907) fifteen-inch-high, white porcelaneous figure of a Sogdian wine-merchant that is one of the most remarkable examples of Chinese mortuary sculpture to come to light in recent years. Only six Tang porcelaneous figures have been located during this investigation, and no documented analogous tomb figures appear to have been published to date. However, this figure—which is in the collection of Alexandra Munroe and Robert Rosenkranz—clearly belongs to a small, cohesive group of Chinese ceramic figures depicting foreign wine-merchants that can be attributed to the early Tang period."

He's gorgeous,but this is a needle in a haystack. Cosmopolitan indeed. There are multi cultural burial sites. The Tajiks of today look like the soldier in the first post.
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
Back to Top
PeaceB View Drop Down
Housecarl
Housecarl


Joined: 27 May 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 36
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 May 2015 at 11:05
Tang was very multicultural and the central authority and general culture were still Chinese. Han Chinese style buraucracy stemmed from Confucianism, literay Chinese language as the standard written language, and Han Chinese customs and cultural traits being dominant.

But we need to know that the majority of Chinese dynasties are multi-cultural with many cultural-genio groups (I avoid the term ethnicity).
Back to Top
applepie1 View Drop Down
Immortal Guard
Immortal Guard


Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Pyongyangdong
Status: Offline
Points: 4
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote applepie1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2015 at 18:34
Tang empire is different with a lot of aspects of traditional chinese dynasty. Excepting their origin is Xianbei, which may be one of Mongolian origin or they controlled Han chinese and used them or another northen tribes and even Indo-Arian origins. Their culture was opening to foreigners so that they advanced high rank of Tang dynasty because their leaders are mixing-blood unlike extreme boycott of aliens throughout Han chinese history.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.