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Telepathy , telepathy is possible???

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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jul 2015 at 06:37
The word psyche means different things for Homer than it means for Aristotle.  I think was Descartes (or was it Bacon) that didn't think animals had souls.  That meant you could cut them up live, and you wouldn't really be "causing" them pain, just "mechanical" responses.   A very sick view if you ask me.

Our general idea of soul _probably_ would be like Aristotle's, but Homeric might be closer, on the other hand, the Iliad and the Odyssey are heroic and have very little magical elements.

In Boy Scouts, we went canoeing at the Minnesota boundary water, and I found it fascinating that the topographical maps were wrong.  Two lakes were connected on the maps, but not in "reality," (or something like that) and so we had to make a portage.  There is what is called a map/territory distinction.  It is simple enough, the map represents the territory, but what happens if the map is wrong?  do we rely on the map and disbelieve in the reality?  (Do we assert that the map is right and the territory is wrong?)  It sounds silly, but remember the way we understand the territory is through the map, if we reject the map, then are we able to deal with the territory at all?

Now let's call the map "shaman," and ask ourselves what the territory is.  Some people actually know what a shaman is, but a lot of other people use that word as if they know what it means, and really they don't.  They would not be able to tell a fraud from the real thing, and they are not in a culture were shamans are a living tradition.  They would get caught up in the map, and try to correct the territory.  Please note, I include myself in that category, although I do believe that Peter Kingsley could be called a modern Shaman, that is, if labels were important.  There are exceptions of course, Siberia, American Indian cultures, they have shamans or something very close to them.  Even so, a twenty-first century shaman would probably be a pale comparison to what was around 30,000 years ago.  So yes, you could probably call a Lascaux 'medicine man' a shaman, but I think doing so conceals more than it reveals.  A lot of smoke and heat, but not much light.

What did Caesar legislate?  That people should use them? That only certain people should use them?  When you use them?
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 03:30
Yes Caesar legislated who and at what time of day they could use the roads. The city was too crowded to have wagons and pedestrians all on the street at once. Carts were to be used at night, people could travel on foot by day.

So, yes maps and territory are like that; the United states has in the past created maps that show US territory as larger than USSR. Its common for countries to have conflicting lines of demarcation and pictorial size on a given area. Its very political.

Descartes did perform vivisection without mercy on hundreds of dogs, with the idea that they did not feel pain.

There is just no way I'm believing that Siberia was home to the first shaman. As long as there have been people there have been healers and those who dwell in both realms, the spiritual and material world. They serve as guides and mediums to solve problems and heal (something like priests??). they often trip on hallucinogens for the greater good, that is they commune with natural forces to better understand how to live.

Now why do you think all that started with the Siberians?

Edited by Vanuatu - 28 Jul 2015 at 12:18
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 12:31
http://www.jstor.org/stable/660223?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

I think this article gets to heart of the etymology. The word 'saman' comes by way of Russian Cossacks in reference to the Tungusian people.
Its also noted that the word shaman is part of the anthropological nomenclature.

'Shaman' is used by the anthropologists who studied Lascaux. Not everyone agrees that it is the correct term but certainly it is an archetype and immediately understood in any context. If I think voodoo priestess, witch doctor, wiccan, medicine man, then shaman, it seems to fit this archetype.


http://www.aggsbach.de/2010/11/shamans-in-the-paleolithic/
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please." - Mark Twain
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jul 2015 at 20:40
The word 'archetype' implies a Jungian (psychological) interpretation, which for certain purposes, can work, but for others it doesn't.  If you are equating voodoo priestess with Witch doctor with wiccan, with medicine man, with shaman, well I would agree they are in the same ball park (if that is what you are implying), but it is painting with an awefully broad brush, and it might just conceal more than it reveals.

I am just saying don't confuse the map with the territory, if looking at paleolithic "religious" men as shamans works for you, okay good, just realize that at some point that interpretation breaks down.  It is okay to use a map, just don't let the map use you.

I was saying that the places where shamans are left are American Indians and in Siberia, I was not saying that they got started in Siberia.  I don't know where they started. 

Now if you are talking about the golden chain (or the golden thread or ribbon), I can believe that goes back to the dawn of mankind. 
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