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The African Origins of Civilization

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    Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 04:21

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 Let's start off by saying that the second oldest (the oldest one being in South Africa) permanent structure on Earth is found in Sudanese Nubia;

Affad 23



"Affad 23" has an estimate range from 70,000 - 17,000 years ago. The Western recognition of the site is at 15,000 BC. This is over 5,000 years older than Golbekli Tepe.

The Natufians

Many scholars believe that the river Nile is the source of the World's first farmers, and some have noted evidence of plant cultivation along the river valley around 15,000 BC. Following the spreading of the Neolithic outside of Africa with migrations that occurred after the end of Ice Age by the Natufians (around 12,500 BC);



F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564

"This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene, and diffused northward to the Levant and Anatolia beginning in the Mesolithic. Indeed, the rare and incomplete Paleolithic to early Neolithic skeletal specimens found in Egypt - such as the 33,000-year-old Nazlet Khater specimen (Pinhasi and Semai 2000), the Wadi Kubbaniya skeleton from the late Paleolithic site in the upper Nile valley (Wendorf et al. 1986), the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt (Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens. This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators (Angel 1972; Berry and Berry 1967, 1972; Keita 1995) and has been recently reinforced by the study of Brace et al. (2005), which clearly shows that the cranial morphology of prehistoric and recent northeast African populations is linked to sub-Saharan populations (Niger-Congo populations). These results support the hypothesis that some of the Paleolithic-early Holocene populations from northeast Africa were probably descendents of sub-Saharan ancestral populations...... This northward migration of northeastern African populations carrying sub-Saharan biological elements is concordant with the morphological homogeneity of the Natufian populations (Bocquentin 2003), which present morphological affinity with sub-Saharan populations (Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005). In addition, the Neolithic revolution was assumed to arise in the late Pleistocene Natufians and subsequently spread into Anatolia and Europe (Bar-Yosef 2002), and the first Anatolian farmers, Neolithic to Bronze Age Mediterraneans and to some degree other Neolithic-Bronze Age Europeans, show morphological affinities with the Natufians (and indirectly with sub-Saharan populations; Angel 1972; Brace et al. 2005), in concordance with a process of demie diffusion accompanying the extension of the Neolithic revolution (Cavalli-Sforza et al. 1994). "

Migrations From the Drying Saharan Desert

There were several other successive migrations of Africans throughout the northern half of the continent and outside of Africa. One of the reciprocal affects of the climate change at the end of the Ice Age (13,000 BC) was the shrinking of the Nile River Valley that most of the Africans in the continent once coinhabited. Conversely new heavy rains vitalizing the adjacent Sahara desert to the West for a few millenniums triggered a migration of those Africans from the Nile River Valley to the Sahara. Lake Chad which was enormous at the time, and a river valley much like the Nile river and the African Great Lakes formed going through what would be Libya into the Mediterranean (shown in the map below). Scholars have speculated that Lake Chad and that river was the location of a major civilization. These Africans brought with them the Saharan Neolithic (that has been noted to actually date back to the Nile Valley to at least around 15,000 BC) or were simply bringing that earlier Nile Valley Neolithic culture that they were said to have had prior to desertification with newly cultivated Saharan Flora & Flauna.



(6-4 millennium BC)



 



The different types of Africans who lived in the ancient Sahara during the fertile period included the Niger-Congo speakers, Nilotes, Cush*tic/(Hamites) speakers and Dravidians (of India today). When these Africans migrated from the Sahara during it's different drying phases the spreading of post Ice Age civilization began.
Further proof of the Tamil's origins and interactions in Africa comes through the language. Much like the map above showing the origin and east-west bi-directional migration of millets in the ancient Sahara, which brought the millets to West Africa and into the Near East, the Tamil language is spoken not only in India, but also in what is now Cameroon in West Africa









One of the pivotal archaeological facts proving this migration of Africans from the Sahara into South and Eastern Asia is the spreading of pearl millets, which originated in the ancient Sahara;



That fact along with undeniable cultural/linguistic overlapping between Africans and Dravidians is further validation. The second phase of desertification during the 5th and 4th millennium B.C.E. brought a new wave of Africans (dubbed the "Ma Confederation" for the common linguistic references throughout these civilization to "the great mother" reflecting their African matriarchal origin) from the Sahara, and subsequently the spreading of Bronze age/Dynastic civilization followed as those Africans (which included Dravidian "Indians") migrated onto the Nile Valley (which prior to Narmer was a continuum of African cultures and people) and into the

Aegean (the "mysterious" Palesgian populations);




"DNA analysis has revealed that two ancient civilizations in Greece were related and shared common ancestors that travelled from modern day Turkey.
Scientists believe that the Minoans and Mycenaens were descended from early Neolithic farmers who migrated from Anatolia to Greece and Crete."

link

A quick rehash on the early "Neolithic" farmers/Natufians of the Levant.

"The surprise is that the Neolithic peoples of Europe and their Bronze Age successors are not closely related to the modern inhabitants... It is a further surprise that the Epipalaeolithic Natufian of Israel from whom the Neolithic realm was assumed to arise has a clear link to Sub-Saharan Africa.”
(Brace et. al. (2006). The questionable contribution of the Neolithic and the Bronze Age to European craniofacial form."


and

"Other studied populations belong to the old Mediterranean substratum, which has been present in the area since pre-Neolithic times. This study indicates a higher proportion of Iberian than Arab ancestry in Tunisian Berbers, which is of value in evaluating the evolutionary history of present-day Tunisians. Greeks seem to share genetic HLA features (Chr 6) with Sub-Saharans. The relatedness of Greeks to Sub-Saharans has been confirmed by other studies based on chromosome 7 genetic markers.
Ann Hum Biol. (2010 Jul 29).HLA class I and class II polymorphisms in Tunisian Berbers.


The Near East establishing the city state of Sumer-Mesopotamia;

"First there is the Eurafrican .. In ancient times, this type is found in Mesopotamia and Egypt and may be compared with the Ombe Capelle skull. It is possibly identical with men who lived in the high desert west of the Nile in paleolithic times.." (-Penniman, T.K. "A Note on the Inhabitants of Kish.." Excavations at Kish, 1923-33 Vol 4. pp 65-72)


Notice the ridiculous term "EuraAfrican" (to suggest degrees of white admixture) is used to describe indigenous African physical diversity in the older anthropological studies as noted earlier. Those Africans in the "High desert west"/Western Kemetic Saharan Desert were Niger-Congo speakers and Dravidians (who originated in Africa and now live in India) who have "narrow"/gracile facial features. Western scientist use to lie and claim that those gracile facial features indicated that they were mixed race. Those features also exist in the Cush*tic populations. It was mentioned earlier leading Bio-Geneticist SOY Keita has dismantled those misconceptions that these indigenous groups are the result of admixture from Caucasoids. The study below conducted less than a decade ago confirms that those remains in the Egyptian western desert were in fact black-melaninated Africans.

"..the Qarunian (Faiyum) early Neolithic crania (Henneberg et al. 1989; Midant-Reynes 2000), and the Nabta specimen from the Neolithic Nabta Playa site in the western desert of Egypt(Henneberg et al. 1980) - show, with regard to the great African biological diversity, similarities with some of the sub-Saharan middle Paleolithic and modern sub-Saharan specimens....This affinity pattern between ancient Egyptians and sub-Saharans has also been noticed by several other investigators..This finding is in agreement with morphological data that suggest that populations with sub-Saharan morphological elements were present in northeastern Africa, from the Paleolithic to at least the early Holocene... "
--Ricaut and Walekens (2008) 'Cranial Discrete traits..' Human Biology, 80:5, pp. 535-564

The ancient Mesopotamian remains are identical to those found in the Paleolithic-Neolithic "Egyptian" Western dessert, and we can further read that the "ancient Egyptians" of the Western desert were the same as modern day "Sub Saharan Africans". Notice the statement that the ancient Kemites are consistently regarded as "Negroid" by other researchers. This correlates with the Kush*te foundation of the civilization that was noted by archaeologist John Baldwin. He was the archaeologist who first deciphered the Conifer script of Mesopotamia and was certain that Nubians founded this Western Asian civilization.

"After deciphering the cuneiform script and researching ancient Mesopotamia for many years Henry Rawlinson (1810-1895) discovered that the founders of the civilization were of Kush*te (Cush*te) origin. He made it clear that the Semitic speakers of Akkad and the non-Semitic speakers of Sumer were both Black people who called themselves sag-gig-ga or “Black Heads.”

John Baldwin wrote in his book “PreHistoric Nations” (1869): “The early colonists of Babylonia were of the same race as the inhabitants of the Upper Nile.

and

Chandra Chakaberty “A Study in Hindu Social Polity” - “based on the statuaries and steles of Babylonia, the Sumerians were “of dark complexion (chocolate colour), short stature, but of sturdy frame, oval face, stout nose, straight hair, full head; they typically resembled the Dravidians, not only in cranium, but almost in all the details.”

In modern geography the name Ethiopia is confined to the country known as Abyssinia, an extensive territory in East Africa. In ancient times Ethiopia extended over vast domains in both Africa and Asia."

“It seems certain,” declares Sir E. A. Wallis Budge, “that classical historians and geographers called the whole region from India to Egypt, both countries inclusive, by the name of Ethiopia, and in consequence they regarded all the dark-skinned and black peoples who inhabited it as Ethiopians. Mention is made of Eastern and Western Ethiopians and it is probable that the Easterners were Asiatics and the Westerners Africans.” (History of Ethiopia, Vol. I., Preface, by Sir E. A. Wallis Budge.)


The Indus Valley;

The Neolithic era of the Indus Valley has yielded so called "Sub Saharan African" samples from E1b1 to E1a (Niger-Congo)

Another strong piece of evidence of the Sahara's pivotal role in early civilization is the fact the oldest known mummy nicknamed "Uan Muhuggiag"/"The black mummy" was found in the southern Libyan region, and this is what is said to have lead to the famed mummification practice later seen in dynastic Egypt.

The abandoning of dynastic Nubia-Ta-Seti lead to the rise of Egypt's first dynasty by 3,100 B.C.E. as those Africans from Ta-Seti-Qustul moved from northern Sudan into southern Kemet.



The Qustul incense burner depicted above was the first official proof of Ta-Seti (Land of the bow) also known as Nubia being the first monarchy, and civilization on Earth. The incense burner shows a pharaoh identical to what would later characterize Egypt prior to Egypt's founding dynasty by Mena Narmer. The artifact discovered by Keith Seal also indicated that 12 other Nubian kings before the one shown on the incense burner. These revelations put Nubia's origin hundreds of years on Narmer's successful conquest campaign north of the first cataract against the northern Egyptian Set worshipers. Some scholars place the origin of dynastic culture thousands of years earlier. According to Boyce Rensberger it was around the early 6th millennium that dynastic Ta-Seti is said to have came into existence. Boyce Rensberger reports in the 1979 NYtimes article about the discovery;

"Nubian Monarchy Called Oldest"...."Evidence of the oldest recognizable monarchy in human history, preceding the rise of the earliest Egyptian kings by several generations, has been discovered in artifacts from ancient Nubia.".... "The first kings of Ta-Seti may well have ruled about 5900 BC. During the time of the fifth generation of their rulers, Upper (ie, southern) Egypt may have united and became a greater threat to Ta-Seti." - Boyce Rensberger​

More recent discoveries within the last decade have produced more evidence of the first monarchies coming from Nubia. The earliest pharonic depictions have been found with the Nag el-Hamdulab Rock Paintings of Nubia. 

Nag el-Hamdulab Rock Paintings

link



The abandoning of these pre-dynastic sites in Ta-Seti lead to the rise of Kemet's first dynasty by 3,100 B.C.E. as those Africans from Ta-Seti moved slightly north from Lower Nubia into Upper Kemet. The location of the rock art was slightly north of Aswan within what Western scholars defined as Nubian territory and culture.  





link

The region of this discovery belonged to a culture coined by archaeologist as "A-group Nubian".

This is one of the many reasons as to why Dynastic Egypt has been firmly rooted as African in origin by scholars;

"Populations and cultures now found south of the desert roamed far to the north. The culture of Upper Egypt, which became dynastic Egyptian civilization, could fairly be called a Sudanese transplant."(Egypt and Sub-Saharan Africa: Their Interaction. Encyclopedia of Precolonial Africa, by Joseph O. Vogel, AltaMira Press, Walnut Creek, California (1997), pp. 465-472 )

Writing

The two Nubian depictions above are also, the first use of the hieroglyphic system that would later be credited to Egypt. It is the World's oldest form of writing. Even when the acknowledgement of the advent of writing is not given to it's proper Nubian source, and instead relegated to Egypt's first dynasty, the evidence still prove that writing was an African advent, and not Sumerian (which was a mere city-state in relation to older Nile Valley civilization);

"The tomb is dated to c. 3250 BC and demonstrates that such writing (on bone and ivory labels) is a more advanced form of writing than was evident in Sumer at that date. It is argued, therefore, that the Egyptian writing system, which is in any case very different from the Mesopotamian, could not have been the result of influence from a less-developed system existing at that date in Sumer."

"The Study of Writing Systems", in The World's Writing Systems, ed. Bright and Daniels, p.3

Instead evidence implies that the opposite is true:

He concluded his presentation by noting similarities between specific Egyptian and Mesopotamian objects and suggesting that perhaps there is an initial influence of Egyptian writing on Mesopotamia because there are signs on Mesopotamian objects that are only "readable" from the standpoint of the Egyptian language, but not the Mesopotamian language.

"Too Much Stuff": Recent Finds in Predynastic Egypt

By Mario Beatty, Ph.D. 



more detailed

The alphabet comparison above proves that the origins of this very writing style ("English", French, German, Spanish etc etc) lacks it's own script! What we are currently using is Roman script, which ultimately came from Nile Valley writing systems.

Dhar Titchitt - Saharan West Africa
.
 




 


This under reported ancient West African (Mande) civilization is older than anything in Europe...When we look at the map above we see migrations going both East AND West. The proof in the pudding of this ancient Sahara being the source of post ice age civilization is what went on in the Western Saharan region in West Africa (southern-Central West Africa was uninhabitable swamp land until the 3rd millennium BC) by the Mande branch of the Niger-Congo speaking Africans. The successive Western Saharan civilizations of Dhar Tichitt, Wagadou (mistakenly called ancient Ghana), Mali and Songhai is proof of this legacy, and specifically the most ancient civilization of the region being Dhar Tichitt going back to the 3rd-2nd millennium BC;












This civilization also vies for the one of the oldest forms of writing with the Mande Script being found on ancient Saharan rock art as ancient as the 4th millennium BC.


The biological evidence (in all ranges) is clear that Africans have been involved in every major civilization. Africans are the common link. Then when things like linguistics and culture are taken into account it becomes indisputable.       


Edited by Taylored - 03 Apr 2020 at 04:28
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 12:02
Taylored

Your extensive post appears to consist of maps, graphs etc and factual information compiled by a number of other authors.

You have not attributed the work to it's various sources, and this is plagiarism, which is forbidden on this forum.

You have three choices:-
  1. revisit your post and supply the required attributions; or
  2. delete it altogether; or
  3. do nothing and it will be deleted by administrative staff.
Read the forum's Code of Conduct.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Mar 2020 at 13:57
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Taylored

Your extensive post appears to consist of maps, graphs etc and factual information compiled by a number of other authors.

You have not attributed the work to it's various sources, and this is plagiarism, which is forbidden on this forum.

You have three choices:-
  1. revisit your post and supply the required attributions; or
  2. delete it altogether; or
  3. do nothing and it will be deleted by administrative staff.
Read the forum's Code of Conduct.

toyomotor
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Righto toyomotor

Taylored, you can leave a link and a few lines if that's all you want to say.
If some one is interested they will respond to your post.
You can copy paste sections but you have to link and give credit to the authors.

Also we try to have conversations here not indoctrinations. 

We have thousands of pages of debates some are memorable, proper credit - forum rules. Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 03:42
LOL Not sure what's "plagiarized". The studies all have the sources listed. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 16:14
"LOL Not sure what's "plagiarized". The studies all have the sources listed."

It reads like a declaration. I don't know where most of the photos are from, it's a matter of wasting time when the mere mention of Olduvai Gorge respectably caps the historical record as we know it so far.

If you want to discuss these topics then don't give me vertigo with a cut paste encyclopedia. 


You don't even mention the archaeological finds of Kush, it's current and relevant to the discussion of Egypt.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2020 at 17:17
Originally posted by Taylored Taylored wrote:

LOL Not sure what's "plagiarized". The studies all have the sources listed. 

No they don't. And that's the issue.

Please read forum Code of Conduct.

I don't propose to argue about this.

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Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

It reads like a declaration.

The African Origins of Civilization are a known a fact. Do you want me to place question marks everywhere as though there is another plausible theory? 

Quote I don't know where most of the photos are from

That sounds like a personal problem, and nothing really valid to this discussion. 

Quote , it's a matter of wasting time when the mere mention of Olduvai Gorge respectably caps the historical record as we know it so far.

Well if you're not having any real dispute with this fact, then you're right it's a waste of time on your part. I did however see through reading some of the post throughout this forum that there are some members who have proclivity for denouncing Africa's unmatched prestige in the area of World history. 

[QUOTEIf you want to discuss these topics then don't give me vertigo with a cut paste encyclopedia.[/QUOTE]

This is a bogus cop out on you guys parts... You don't like what's presented because it's too bold and black, so you guys complain about the way that the sources are delivered. You don't have any real refutations, so this is the best that you can do.....There's a pattern that I notice whenever these facts are being this discussed, and the pattern is sure holding up on this forum. LOL

Quote You don't even mention the archaeological finds of Kush, it's current and relevant to the discussion of Egypt.

What.......are you talking about? 
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Quote The African Origins of Civilization are a known a fact. Do you want me to place question marks everywhere as though there is another plausible theory?

Africa has been identified as the area in which hominems originated,but there are questions about this.

You seem to have lost sight of the difference between Homo Sapiens and civilisation. What about the Mesopotamian region? Remember we're talking about civilisation here.

Quote This is a bogus cop out on you guys parts... You don't like what's presented because it's too bold and black, so you guys complain about the way that the sources are delivered. You don't have any real refutations, so this is the best that you can do.....There's a pattern that I notice whenever these facts are being this discussed, and the pattern is sure holding up on this forum.

No, you're wrong. If you post information by an author other than yourself, you need to accredit the original author.

Quote There's a pattern that I notice whenever these facts are being this discussed, and the pattern is sure holding up on this forum.

And we don't tolerate personal attacks either.Angry




Edited by toyomotor - 03 Apr 2020 at 11:49
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Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Africa has been identified as the area in which hominems originated,but there are questions about this.

LOL What questions? There is not disputing the fact that indigenous Africans began the genesis of humanity. 

Quote You seem to have lost sight of the difference between Homo Sapiens and civilisation. What about the Mesopotamian region? Remember we're talking about civilisation here.

The African continent is the home of humanity AND logically civilization. 

You must have missed the entire first post lol. Sumer was a satellite of the oldest civilization on Earth, which is Nubia - Ta Seti. 

"After deciphering the cuneiform script and researching ancient Mesopotamia for many years Henry Rawlinson (1810-1895) discovered that the founders of the civilization were of Kush*te (Cush*te) origin. He made it clear that the Semitic speakers of Akkad and the non-Semitic speakers of Sumer were both Black people who called themselves sag-gig-ga or “Black Heads.” 


John Baldwin wrote in his book “PreHistoric Nations” (1869): “The early colonists of Babylonia were of the same race as the inhabitants of the Upper Nile. 
and 

Chandra Chakaberty  “A Study in Hindu Social Polity” - “based on the statuaries and steles of Babylonia, the Sumerians were “of dark complexion (chocolate colour), short stature, but of sturdy frame, oval face, stout nose, straight hair, full head; they typically resembled the Dravidians, not only in cranium, but almost in all the details.

Quote No, you're wrong. If you post information by an author other than yourself, you need to accredit the original author.

Ok...What quote or statement in the OP is not cited? 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Apr 2020 at 10:01
Who is arguing known facts besides you?

You have a personal problem with NOT citing other peoples photos/work.

Your post is bogus, no one is challenging African origins and if you don't know what archaeologist just uncovered about Kush then try using your computer.




Edited by Vanuatu - 07 Apr 2020 at 12:37
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Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

You have a personal problem with NOT citing other peoples photos/work.

I've asked this before in another thread in which you claims the same thing. What has not been cited? 

Quote Your post is bogus, no one is challenging African origins

Are you mad or nah? Unless you're jealous why are you so angry over this post? 

Quote and if you don't know what archaeologist just uncovered about Kush then try using your computer

I know more about Kush and African history than you could ever know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 12:58
You don't cite locations for the images you posted!!! How many responses do you f**king need?

You don't cite the sources for the claims you made with legitimate sources, just radical bullsh*t that means nothing to scholars. 

You don't use the multitude of ancient writers who could support what you say about Africa in the ancient world. 

Instead you are militant and not serious, rude and obnoxious, who cares what you say? 

If you were at least amiable then even in disagreement I would show you some respect.

You want this big, aggressive, hate filled -finger pointing fest. 

You have nothing new or interesting to say. 

You amuse me, just another patronizing bullsh*tter who does not think for himself.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 14:01
civilization moves around and changes.  One place that was the height of civilization in one era, becomes a backwater, other areas that were barbaric get cultured and civilized.  But, not forever, one has to work at it, to stay on top, and staying on the tippy top depends on more things that just a desire to (culturally and politically) dominate.  For that matter, there usually is not just one civilization, but different ones going at the same time, with different views.  But, maybe some civilizations started in Africa.  For sake of argument, I'll agree with that, although I cannot unpack your references about Dravidians coming from Ethiopia.  I would suggest that instead of trying to do everything in one post, break up the topic and don't overwhelm your viewer.  But, in any case, let's say civilization started in Africa, as Janet Jackson sings, "what have you done for me lately?"
There is a belief that the Greeks stole it from the Egyptians, which after all, are really Africans.  Okay, _let's_ say that is true.  Couldn't one then get African culture by reading Greek works?  If that is how African works survive, then it might make sense to get them via Greek culture.  Some people study Arabic because they like Greek works, and a lot of Greek works were translated in Arabic during Arabia's golden age.   It is not like they are polluted because they are now in Arabic.
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Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

You don't cite locations for the images you posted!!! How many responses do you f**king need?

In the circles that I run with most of these image sources/studies are common knowledge. Google Image search would often link you to the main study or sources of those images. 

Quote You don't cite the sources for the claims you made with legitimate sources, just radical bullsh*t that means nothing to scholars.

"F. X. Ricaut, M. Waelkens. (2008). Cranial Discrete Traits in a Byzantine Population and Eastern Mediterranean Population Movements Human Biology - Volume 80, Number 5, October 2008, pp. 535-564"

Didn't know that Ricaut was "radical bullsh*t", especially when they're summarizing the consistent findings of various other peer reviewed studies. 

Quote You don't use the multitude of ancient writers who could support what you say about Africa in the ancient world.

Ermm

Quote Instead you are militant and not serious, rude and obnoxious, who cares what you say?

"Militant" lol. Your feeling are really hurt. Yeah I assert what I write. If you don't like then refute. Your problem is that you know that you can't. I don't really care if you"like" how I present the research and my contextualization of it. You're just disgruntled over the truth. 

Quote You want this big, aggressive, hate filled -finger pointing fest.

I present facts, and you present your emotional reaction to those facts....


Edited by Taylored - 24 Apr 2020 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 15:03
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

For sake of argument, I'll agree with that, although I cannot unpack your references about Dravidians coming from Ethiopia.  

Well, this is sure a rather strong claim to prove Smile From the geological theoretical retrospective, India once was a part of Africa, together with S.America they made a continent called Gondwana.  As for Dravidians, I once read somewhere that there was some sort of similarity between Dravidian and Sumerian ways of writings. Jewish patriarch Abraham was actually born in Sumerian city of Ur and later moved to Egypt, which is close to Ethiopia. So presumably there could have been also the backward migration from Africa to Sumer, and from Sumer to India.

But more importantly is that one cannot claim anything in this world based on the historical heritage, no matter how much evidence there is available to support the claims. Yes, Africans maybe superb both historically, physically etc. Any medical practitioner would confirm that Black athletes seem to recover 1.5 times faster than White athletes from the same injuries. Those who love esoteric conspiracy theories would know that White folks were the newcomers to this planet and originally seemed to inhabit only the northern Arctic hemisphere of the planet, whereas the aboriginal earth's population was black. But all those stories are meaningless and irrelevant to the current reality, they are good only for elderly women perching on a bench, nibbling sunflower seeds  because they have nothing else to do except jaw wagging and contemplating the approaching eternity..
I teach history to children and I am proud that they leave my classes permeated with sh*t and hatred to meet the real world..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 15:05
Send the pics to the circles that you run with or provide some context if you truly want to communicate something relevant, or not.

Tell us who the author is why he matters. Or not.

Militant is demeaning, sorry about that  but you are the angry one, re read your assault /post.

I still don't know what facts are so stunning, you have yet to clarify what any of this vertigo means to history.

My emotional reaction is a yawn. You take up a lot of space but you have nothing to say.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Apr 2020 at 15:17
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

But, maybe some civilizations started in Africa.

The genesis of civilization began in Africa (Nubia). Not "maybe some". From Nubia came Kemet

Quote For sake of argument, I'll agree with that, although I cannot unpack your references about Dravidians coming from Ethiopia.

It was a screen shot of a passage from this website;


You even Tamil spoken among some Niger-Congo speakers in Cameroon. 

Quote I would suggest that instead of trying to do everything in one post, break up the topic and don't overwhelm your viewer.

It's actually a quick summation of some of the main points of my much larger thread on my home turf


Quote But, in any case, let's say civilization started in Africa, as Janet Jackson sings, "what have you done for me lately?"

Well as it pertains to Western Europeans we taught you all everything via the Moors. 



Moorish Influences on European Society

1. The Moors, who ruled Spain for 800 years, introduced new scientific techniques to Europe, such as an astrolabe, a device for measuring the position of the stars and planets. Scientific progress in Astronomy, Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics, Geography and Philosophy flourished in Moorish Spain


2. Basil Davidson, one of the most noted historians recognized and declared that there were no lands at that time (the eighth century) “more admired by its neighbours, or more comfortable to live in, than a rich African civilization which took shape in Spain


3. At its height, Córdova, the heart of Moorish territory in Spain, was the most modern city in Europe. The streets were well-paved, with raised sidewalks for pedestrians. During the night, ten miles of streets were well illuminated by lamps. (This was hundreds of years before there was a paved street in Paris or a street lamp in London.) Cordova had 900 public baths – we are told that a poor Moor would go without bread rather than soap!


4. The Great Mosque of Córdoba (La Mezquita) is still one of the architectural wonders of the world in spite of later Spanish disfigurements. Its low scarlet and gold roof, supported by 1,000 columns of marble, jasper and and porphyry, was lit by thousands of brass and silver lamps which burned perfumed oil.


5. Education was universal in Moorish Spain, available to all, while in Christian Europe ninety-nine percent of the population were illiterate, and even kings could neither read nor write. At that time, Europe had only two universities, the Moors had seventeen great universities! These were located in Almeria, Cordova, Granada, Juen, Malaga, Seville, and Toledo.


6. In the tenth and eleventh centuries, public libraries in Europe were non-existent, while Moorish Spain could boast of more than seventy, of which the one in Cordova housed six hundred thousand manuscripts.


7. Over 4,000 Arabic words and Arabic-derived phrases have been absorbed into the Spanish language. Words beginning with “al,” for example, are derived from Arabic. Arabic words such as algebra, alcohol, chemistry, nadir, alkaline, and cipher entered the language. Even words such as checkmate, influenza, typhoon, orange, and cable can be traced back to Arabic origins.


8. The Moors introduced earliest versions of several instruments, including the Lute or el oud, the guitar or kithara and the Lyre.


The most significant Moorish musician was known as Ziryab (the Blackbird) who arrived in Spain in 822. His musical contributions are staggering, laying the early groundwork for classic Spanish music.


Ziryab was a singer, oud player, composer, poet, and teacher. He was also known as a polymath, with knowledge in astronomy, geography, meteorology, botanics, cosmetics, culinary art and fashion. Ziryab revolutionized the court at Córdoba and made it the stylistic capital of its time. Whether introducing new clothes, styles, foods, hygiene products, or music, Ziryab changed al-Andalusian culture forever.


Ziryab also changed the style of eating by breaking meals into separate courses beginning with soup and ending with desserts.


9. The Moors introduced paper to Europe and Arabic numerals, which replaced the clumsy Roman system.


10. The Moors introduced many new crops including the orange, lemon, peach, apricot, fig, sugar cane, dates, ginger and pomegranate as well as saffron, sugar cane, cotton, silk and rice which remain some of Spain’s main products today.


11. The Moorish rulers lived in sumptuous palaces, while the monarchs of Germany, France, and England dwelt in big barns, with no windows and no chimneys, and with only a hole in the roof for the exit of smoke. One such Moorish palace ‘Alhambra’ (literally “the red one”) in Granada is one of Spain’s architectural masterpieces. Alhambra was the seat of Muslim rulers from the 13th century to the end of the 15th century. The Alhambra is a UNESCO World Heritage Site


12. It was through Africa that the new knowledge of China, India, and Arabia reached Europe. The Moors brought the Compass from China into Europe.


Clearly without the Moors bringing Western Europeans up into contemporary times they those same Western Europeans would NEVER have had the capacity to colonize much of the World.


Quote There is a belief that the Greeks stole it from the Egyptians, which after all, are really Africans.  Okay, _let's_ say that is true.

Oh it's true the Greeks admitted it lol. 


Quote Couldn't one then get African culture by reading Greek works?  If that is how African works survive, then it might make sense to get them via Greek culture.

True ancient Kemetic culture is continued to this day by black Africans only;






Mummy of the Obi Ijeh of Idumuoghu,Ibusa, Nigeria From Oscar Pfouma "Histoire culturelle de l'Afrique Noire":





Quote Some people study Arabic because they like Greek works, and a lot of Greek works were translated in Arabic during Arabia's golden age.   It is not like they are polluted because they are now in Arabic.

All of that "Greek Knowledge" is all stolen from Kemet. In ancient Greek society, to considered a "somebody" you HAD to go study among the Kemites. To become a scholar a Greek had to study for 40 years....and the Kemites even noted that they were the most difficult of all nations to teach..



Edited by Taylored - 24 Apr 2020 at 15:35
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 00:54
If you actually know something then share. 

Starting today your unending copy paste is over. 
Still round the corner there may wait, a new road or a secret gate. (J. R. R. Tolkien)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 05:09
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

If you actually know something then share. 

Starting today your unending copy paste is over. 

Sir much of what is "copied and pasted" IS MY OWN WRITING FROM OTHER WEBSITES. You cannot hold a candle to my knowledge. You hate the black truth that his being posted, BUT YOU CAN'T REFUTE IT. You hate that fact. Your only option is to resort to BITCHING....about proper citations. So weak!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 05:21
I'm not wasting a moment of my life reading your Afro-rants. Goodbye
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 05:23
You were advised by a few people here that we don't do things your way here.
You had a platform for your views even though I think you are raging and vengeful and ignorant.
Now you are a bore and taking up space.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 14:08
Frankly speaking, it's the first time of my life that I come across a Black person with radical racist views. Although I've had experience of interacting with Africans, incl. Afro American, they all seemed fine, but they were well educated like most of people of my circle.

I know there are quite a few racists among the white folks, and quite often they justify their views by claiming to be the victims of crimes by Blacks. In the US the majority of prison population are actually Blacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity
and from the table it looks like Blacks are 6 times more prone to committing a crime despite their rich historical heritage and claimed discovery of America:


I teach history to children and I am proud that they leave my classes permeated with sh*t and hatred to meet the real world..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 14:29
Originally posted by Novosedoff Novosedoff wrote:

Frankly speaking, it's the first time of my life that I come across a Black person with radical racist views. Although I've had experience of interacting with Africans, incl. Afro American, they all seemed fine, but they were well educated like most of people of my circle.
In Massachusetts most people are educated and I don't run into this sort of thing except on am radio. The facts never got attention bc the hostility was hard to ignore. He was shown respect and engaged by other members.

Quote I know there are quite a few racists among the white folks, and quite often they justify their views by claiming to be the victims of crimes by Blacks. In the US the majority of prison population are actually Blacks: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States#Ethnicity
and from the table it looks like Blacks are 6 times more prone to committing a crime despite their rich historical heritage and claimed discovery of America:

There are lots of reasons for the crime rates. Is your opinion that while you know there are racists, they exist among white people only?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 14:41
Originally posted by Vanuatu Vanuatu wrote:

There are lots of reasons for the crime rates. Is your opinion that while you know there are racists, they exist among white people only?


Surely any talks about superiority of one part of the earth's population over the other based on the color of the skin are dead-end. The African origins of the civilization are well-known, there is nothing new in this. The motivation for such discussions is hard to understand. Occasionally such topics are raised by people who are not even Black themselves. I think that moderators should be quicker to react to this kind of instigation, although this is none of my business because I am just a casual reader of this forum.
I teach history to children and I am proud that they leave my classes permeated with sh*t and hatred to meet the real world..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 14:49
Since there is so much tolerance of bull sh*t in our media, it seemed appropriate to allow some of this raging to go on. Then it really gave me vertigo.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Apr 2020 at 19:29
There are racists in every country, regardless of skin colour.

I don't think it's appropriate to point the finger at any particular race or country.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Apr 2020 at 13:26
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

There are racists in every country, regardless of skin colour.

I don't think it's appropriate to point the finger at any particular race or country.
No it isn't. Our former member was angry but not stupid, he could have made his arguments and he could have been part of the group. It doesn't seem like he wanted discussion , just an opportunity to fill pages with protest and his outrage. 
While I sympathize with the need to do that, he has a blog of his own -and he was no bloody fun at all! 
No, actually the side by side photos did make me smile.


Edited by Vanuatu - 26 Apr 2020 at 13:27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Novosedoff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 03:03
One of Russia's well known leftish portals has started publishing the Russian translation of Walter Rodney's book "How Europe Underdeveloped Africa" (1973) Smile





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 May 2020 at 14:44
Only 20 pages into the text, already I see some agreement and some statements that seem unvalidated. It's 1973, and the author sees capitalism "rapidly declining" ? 

He may be onto something with the creation of intense racism through capitalism. I'll read it through, he is a good writer.
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