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The English in Ireland.

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Buckskins View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 15:03


Calling for a Historical Investigation of British Atrocities

We The survivors of British Tyranny ask the World court to Investigate PUBLICLY, the actions of the british government, and its civilians during the "Irish Potato Famine", to learn and publicize the truth, and assess the need for reparations and damages for the british ocupation of Ireland, and the mass murder of its civilian population and other war crimes, such as rape of its women, looting of national assets, slavery and involuntary servitude while they were in armed control of this country, the involuntary exporting of the civilions of IRELAND, as undesirables to penal colonies, the confiscation of personal assets of civilians.


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/697/876/789/

In January 1920, the British government started advertising in British cities for men willing to "face a rough and dangerous task", helping to boost the ranks of the RIC in policing an increasingly anti-British Ireland

The Black and Tans were not subject to strict discipline in their early months in Ireland and as a result, their deaths at the hands of the IRA in 1920 were often repaid with arbitrary reprisals against the civilian population. In the summer of 1920, the Black and Tans burned and sacked many small towns and villages in Ireland, beginning with Tuam in County Galway in July 1920 and also including Trim, Balbriggan, Knockcroghery, Thurles and Templemore amongst many others. In November 1920, the Tans "besieged" Tralee in revenge for the IRA abduction and killing of two local RIC men. They closed all the businesses in the town and let no food in for a week. In addition they shot dead three local people. On 14 November, the Tans abducted and murdered a Roman Catholic priest,

increased emphasis on discipline in the RIC, this helped to curb the random atrocities the Black and Tans committed since March 1920 for the remainder of the war, if only because reprisals were now directed from above rather than being the result of a spontaneous desire for revenge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_and_Tans

Rev. Martin Luther King`s chief civil rights strategist, Rev. James Bevel, visited Derry not long ago. He reports that British oppression of the Irish far exceeds that suffered by the pre-1960s Southern blacks. Dublin Lord Mayor Briscoe states: ``Britain created the problem and only Britain can solve it-by withdrawing from the area. Only then will peace come.`

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1989-01-10/news/8902240421_1_sinn-fein-british-civil-rights


There are reams of the brutal british record in Ireland. The above is but the tiniest portion. They occupied Ireland with their usual thug like behavour. 800/600 years worth of the English heel. 

May you live as long as you want to,
and may you want to as long as you live.
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gcle2003 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 18:48
Someone I can't remember offhand, sometime in the 4th century:
"If all someone has to do to be declared innocent is deny the charges, how can he be proven guilty?"
 
Julian Caesar, later Augustus: "If all it takes to convict a person is that he is charged by his enemies, how can he be proven innocent?"
 
(Probably apocryphal, taken from Gore Vidal's novel. But telling.)
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

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Parnell View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Parnell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2012 at 21:16
The Famine:

Basically created what we would now recognise as Irish nationalism. On balance, one would have to conclude that a vastly overpopulated island (9 million or so souls - millions of whom subsisted on plots of less than two acres per family) combined with a very Victorian laissez faire model of capitalism culminated in one of the great human tragedies of the 19th century. The Malthusian in me thinks that the famine was inevitable (I won't go so far as to say that it was 'necessary')

On the plus side, the post famine years witnessed steadily increasing prosperity, until we reached the stage of relative parity with rural England by the early 20th century. Our diaspora became more and more influential in various parts of the world (The Irish catholic diaspora wouldn't have happened on the same scale without the famine)

None of this justifies the famine or how it was handled of course, but I'm skeptical of the notion that Britain was uniquely evil in this affair and accept that a certain amount of economic and political extremities- not necessarily a base malice - were at the heart of it all.

The Black and Tans:

Whilst undoubtedly brutal and widely hated in Ireland, lets not lose the run of ourselves. The Black and Tans were intended to act as a quasi military replacement or complement to the RIC (Royal Irish Constabulary) who had effectively withdrawn to urban barracks by 1920 (Having been burnt out of most rural barracks in Munster and other hotspots of the war of independence). As occupying forces, they were no more terrible than any other occupying force in any part of the world, in any conflict between two nations. Do you think a war of independence is a pretty thing? There will be blood. Sometimes there must be blood. This is war. It is an ugly business. The Irish republicans who went to war knew what they were doing and knew of the consequences. Lets not fool ourselves with delusions of the 'poor paddy'. We had tough guys fighting a war of independence. For every Black and Tan atrocity there was an IRA one.

The Civil Rights Movement:

I'll make no excuses here - the fact that this sort of repression happened in a liberal age and in Britain's back door is a source of utter shame and repulsion in all Britons (Or at least it should be)

In conclusion:

Lets have a discussion about this. Pontificating is admittedly much more fun but it doesn't get us anywhere. Irish nationalism and republicanism is a fascinating area and it deserves to be examined with a scrutiny and a skepticism - not endorsed by pithy remarks like 'They occupied Ireland with their usual thug like behavour'

Edited by Parnell - 20 Mar 2012 at 21:19
http://xkcd.com/15/



Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it. ~George Bernard Shaw
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Woofer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2013 at 12:54
This sort of tedious nonsense always seems to have an Irish American behind it.

Generally one completely devoid of any sort of ability to research. Who is this 'world court'of which he speaks? Does he mean the International criminal court? If so he should know that it only has jurisdiction over events post 2002.

Interestingly the USA is not a member.
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Woofer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Woofer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2013 at 13:01
Hilarious. I went to the link and no one has signed that pointless document.

It seems it is referring to the International court of Justice which is an arm of the UN and rules on disputes between states so it has no jurisdiction for severeal reasons

1) This was a British Internal matter

2) It  predated the formation of the UN

3) Cases before ICJ are between States only.
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Penderyn View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penderyn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jan 2014 at 13:06
The first 'English' move into Ireland was by Cambro-Normans, who came mainly from the area previously attacked and occupied by the Irish tribe the Deisi, the first such 'Welsh' invader escaping from the problem caused having sworn aliegiance to both the English king and the Lord Rhys.   Guilt-games based on history seem a bit aimless: the past is another country and they do things differently there.[
Mochyn i bob un
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2014 at 02:18
I reckon you'll find that there are at least two other threads that this post could go to.

I'm unashamedly Irish Nationalist in that I would love to see an United Ireland.

But after a while, seeing repeated posts on this forum, all saying pretty much the same thing, myself included, it does get a bit boring, and achieves nothing.


Tiocfaidh Ar La.

Erin Go Bragh.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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