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The Greatest Slavic Empire

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Poll Question: What in your opinion was the greatest empire ever created by Slavs?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
1 [7.69%]
1 [7.69%]
2 [15.38%]
9 [69.23%]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 01:43
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Hmmm... Slavs are people that speak Slavic languages. And all of those people spoke them. I don't get the point about "mythical Slavonia" or whatever it is...

That is just the good Doctor being the good Doctor ... you know he has to insert quirky comments here and there. Star
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 03:13
Originally posted by Roberts Roberts wrote:


Still, the ruller had the title King of Poland and Grand Duke of Lithuania. No Emperors.
 
Look at the essence not the terminology. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 08:32
Originally posted by es_bih es_bih wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Hmmm... Slavs are people that speak Slavic languages. And all of those people spoke them. I don't get the point about "mythical Slavonia" or whatever it is...

That is just the good Doctor being the good Doctor ... you know he has to insert quirky comments here and there. Star
 
Au contraire, mon ami... and not only is Slavonia a geographic entity but one with political implications just as complicated as any of the myths generated by Pan-Slavism, among those the notion that the Russian regime consolidated by the heirs of Catherine the Great was the apogee of Slavic political identity!
Honi soit qui mal y pense
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2010 at 14:50
Originally posted by Flipper Flipper wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Originally posted by Flipper Flipper wrote:

Originally posted by Roberts Roberts wrote:

Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth doesn't belong to the poll because it never was an empire.


+ Lithuanians are Baltic people.
Lithuanians are Baltic people. But the empire was complitely dominated by the Slavic Polish culture and language. In fact, even before the creation of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania became dominated by "Ruthenian language" (which was its official language BTW) and very influenced by "Ruthenian" Slavic culture as well.


Thanks for the clarification Sarmat! Smile
 
You are very welcome ! Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 08:45
I wonder who won in the polling? Hmmmm....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jun 2010 at 08:54
Yeah, still unclear... isn't it? Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote necoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2010 at 19:16
Yes, I admit, it's my fault. Let's assume that both Second and First Bulgarian Empires are included in the poll.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Anton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2010 at 08:14
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Yeah, still unclear... isn't it? Big smile


well, yours may be fatter but mine's longer definitely Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Aug 2010 at 13:49
Originally posted by Anton Anton wrote:

Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Yeah, still unclear... isn't it? Big smile


well, yours may be fatter but mine's longer definitely Smile


Ummm... do i dare? Nah, i better not!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2010 at 00:20
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

It's a very interesting question.  But, I wouldn't call Kievan Rus as a real empire. Contrary to what one may percieve, it was a very loose and even I would say "democratic" entity. A firm rule only existed during the reign of Igor, Sviatoslav and Vladimir while after Vladimir the rules of succession of Kievan throne were very "anarchic" I would say, with many Russian cities independently selecting princes they liked the most...  Although, at the same time the principality of Novgorod was building its own empire where it controlled and colonized large territories in the East and North-East.
 
And I would say that, perhaps Kievan state was more "Byzantine" (more in terms of cultural influences though than politically) and the Muscovite state was more  "Turko-Mongolian" (in terms of political and administrative organization).
 
It's problematic. Byzantine influence was just beginning and the Kievan Rus had their reservations about it, whereas the Muscovite state proclaimed itself as a heir. The absence of a true Kievan Rus autocrat also weakens the idea. Perhaps it could be said the Rus states were closer to Varangian and Slavic models both politically, religiously and culturally, whereas as time went by the political constructs in the area were increasingly influenced both by the Byzantines and the Turks/Mongols, which is evident by the time the Muscovite state starts expanding.
 
Originally posted by Sarmat Sarmat wrote:

Why don't you like Catherine the Great's period?
 
Feel free to add it. You could just include the entire period from Peter to the end of the 1800s, when things go downhill for the Tsar. Of course, Soviet can easily be construed as a Communist successor to the Tsarist regime's imperial ambitions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sarmat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Aug 2010 at 02:52
Originally posted by Reginmund Reginmund wrote:

 
It's problematic. Byzantine influence was just beginning and the Kievan Rus had their reservations about it, whereas the Muscovite state proclaimed itself as a heir. The absence of a true Kievan Rus autocrat also weakens the idea. Perhaps it could be said the Rus states were closer to Varangian and Slavic models both politically, religiously and culturally, whereas as time went by the political constructs in the area were increasingly influenced both by the Byzantines and the Turks/Mongols, which is evident by the time the Muscovite state starts expanding.
 
 
Yeah, that makes sense to me.
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