| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - The Myth of Vietnam.
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Topic ClosedThe Myth of Vietnam.

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
Author
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 11:20
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

 Those that oppose US policy are motivated simply by self interest alone and view the US ideals as an impediment to their own goals.
I don't think that is true of EU policy, unless you take concern for the general welfare as being 'self-interest'. EU opposition to monopolistic (or oligopolistic) practices, for instance, or to exploiting private information for commercial/political purposes, or to infringements of legal principles like te presumption of innocence, are driven by political and philosophical concepts, not self-interest.
 
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Panther View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar
Editorial Staff

Joined: 20 Jan 2006
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 4543
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 14:09
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

 Those that oppose US policy are motivated simply by self interest alone and view the US ideals as an impediment to their own goals.
I don't think that is true of EU policy, unless you take concern for the general welfare as being 'self-interest'. EU opposition to monopolistic (or oligopolistic) practices, for instance, or to exploiting private information for commercial/political purposes, or to infringements of legal principles like te presumption of innocence, are driven by political and philosophical concepts, not self-interest.
 


I didn't have the EU in mind when i was writing the comment. I think the US and Europe are more similar to one another than different. The means towards the common goals seem to drive the disagreements that sometimes fly fast and furiously across the Atlantic.
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1346
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 17:46
GCLE, it certainly is germane that the U.S. proved capable and willing to live with the results of the Korean War Armistice. And they would happily have lived with the Paris accords. Everybody understood that the U.S. was fighting a limited war, for specifically limited objectives, the principle one being the survival of the RVN as a non-communist state. 

For all: Regarding the media, I don't fault the media for reporting what they did. What I do fault them for is blindly accepting information and reports from their Vietnamese counterparts without ever getting out on the ground to verify what was being reported. Could Peter Arnett, Bob Shaplen, David Halberstam, or Neil Sheehan speak any Vietnamese? If so, how well? They appear to have replied on Pham Xuan An for much of their reporting. An served in Time Magazine's Saigon Bureau from 1965 to 1975. He was a Communist Agent who had specifically been groomed to fit such a position. How many other communist agents were running around with U.S. news crews, slanting what they were told by those being interviewed?

You've got to give HCM credit, he knew from the very beginning that this would be a war for hearts and minds. Not only for those of his own people, but those of the French and later the Americans as well. The Ho Chi Minh we all remember only assumed that Confucian uncle image, with the traditional facial hair, late in WWII as he prepared to return to Vietnam. He was a man who could have taught Edward Lansdale a lot about publicity campaigns.

Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
Captain Vancouver View Drop Down
Council Member
Council Member
Avatar

Joined: 29 Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver Isle
Status: Offline
Points: 2160
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Apr 2012 at 19:05
Interesting story about the media lirelou. The problem with not going out and verifying things in the field is much more an issue today though than it was then. Many did go out in the field, and they could see what was happening. Knowing Vietnamese would have no doubt been an improvement, but not an absolute necessity in reporting much of what went on. It was Americans running the war; others were junior partners.
 
I think that the media perhaps hit a raw nerve because what they were doing was relatively novel. They were taking a stance often at odds with the official paradigm. This was unsettling to those unacustomed to questioning national goals. This was also disturbing to some as it gave a very public voice to what they grasped internally, but where loath to admit, due to their position, or their sense of national values. It is grating to realize one has messed up, and before much time for contemplation about it is allowed, others are blabbing it all over the place.
 
The  media occupies a prominent place in society, and so is an attractive target. But the real targets were in Washington.
Back to Top
lirelou View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain
Avatar

Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Status: Offline
Points: 1346
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 15:57
Interesting, indeed. I find it a bit more than merely interesting, but then my real targets were in Hanoi (in the strategic sense). As for the Americans 'running the war', they were nonly running their bit of it. But I will grant you, given their capabilities in the strategic sphere, that outside of South Vietnam proper they were indeed running 'the' war. Inside Vietnam, it was a more complicated picture.



Edited by lirelou - 02 Apr 2012 at 16:02
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
Back to Top
Buckskins View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 792
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 19:04
LBJ ran the war like he was some kind of Sun Tzu. Westmoreland didn't have the balls too stand up to him.  LBJ boasted, they cant hit a Hanoi sh*th@use without my say so. He thought he was a gifted General. He was a clown masquerading as a President.
May you live as long as you want to,
and may you want to as long as you live.
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 20:24
Is that part of the myth?
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
Buckskins View Drop Down
General
General
Avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 792
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Apr 2012 at 23:05
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Is that part of the myth?

Edit: Gcle2003 asked you a fair question, there was no need to be insulting.


Edited by Panther - 03 Apr 2012 at 00:15
Back to Top
fusong View Drop Down
Editorial Staff
Editorial Staff
Avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Status: Offline
Points: 485
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Apr 2012 at 01:35
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Is that part of the myth?


High five for that oneLOL
Every ideology has a kernel of truth and sea of whitewash.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Apr 2012 at 01:43

As part of the sanction & warning issued against the OP, Council has determined that this thread is to be closed. If any member wishes to continue this topic or something similar, please feel free to open a new one and engage the topic with civility and respect towards your WH members.

Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <123
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.078 seconds.