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The power of the Narco Criminals

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pinguin View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 01:56
The Cold War was a sad period for Latin America. Guerrilla wars, coups, U.S. interventions, the Missile Crisis, Civil wars, terrorism, political and economical chaos, corruption, poverty, torture, marked those times, and affect in diverse degrees all the countries of the region. A lasting effect of the Cold War was the foundation of organized guerrillas, that fought for the establishment of communism in the region, with the financial support of the Soviet Union and Communist China.

In the late 60s and early 70s, hippism and the international campain of promotion for consumption of drugs done by American and British artists, created a huge market for illegal businesses to catch on. At that time Chilean chemists started a slow scale business to refinate cocaine, whose technique was later tranfered to Colombians. At that times, criminals and guerrillas in Colombia started to converge into the drug business, first perceived as a way to take revange from U.S. imperialism.

In the 80s, the drug business grew exponentially, and criminals saw themselves with huge amounts of money and power. They almost destroyed Colombia in the process, and still today everywhere they go there is a track of blood behind.

Today, the hardest hitted region in the world by the drug cartels is Mexico, and the problem still is not controlled at all. It seems is getting worst by the day.

I opened this thread to discuss the power of Narcos, and what is going to be the next move. Today Narcos are spreading globally. They have already marked presence in Africa, just in case the channels to the U.S. are broken. And they have allies all over the world.

Let's talk how to stop them, how much power they have and how many people they kill yearly.



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pinguin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 02:06
A display of Narco power: Narco submarines.




















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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 10:55
You should have included among the causative factors the various international conventions that ultimately criminalised drug use and distribution. The present powers of 'narco-crime' are entirely due to the criminalisation of use of and dealing in the products, to the extent of forbidding goverments to do so through a nationalised agency.
 
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 20 Jan 2011 at 10:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reginmund Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 11:06
Indeed. A product there is a demand and supply for should never be criminalized, or prices will be driven through the roof and the dealers will end up with huge resources on their hands, occasionally to the extent where they can challenge the state like we see in South America. The narco armies of South America are mainly kept in business by the US drug policy. Once more it shows the dangers of idealism over pragmatism; it just doesn't work the way it's intended and may even have the exact opposite effect.
 
The obvious answer is legalization. The government can garner huge amounts of revenue from taxing a legalized drug industry and will at the same time drastically reduce crime rates and have law enforcement resources to spare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 13:55
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

You should have included among the causative factors the various international conventions that ultimately criminalised drug use and distribution. The present powers of 'narco-crime' are entirely due to the criminalisation of use of and dealing in the products, to the extent of forbidding goverments to do so through a nationalised agency.
 
 
 
I completely disagree with this conclusion.
 
If countries wanted to end the drug trade they could do it rather easily, the fact that drugs are a major source of money for intelligence services/useful dictators who actually help run the drugs tells a lot.
 
Legalisation of drugs won't solve anything. The Dutch and Portuguese experiments showed increases in drug use without significant reduction in either violence or deaths.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 14:00
I don't agree with you. You should see the record of honest policemen killed in the narco war in Colombia, and the thousand of civilians it has also cost, to realize it is not easy to fight against drugs and money.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 14:17
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I don't agree with you. You should see the record of honest policemen killed in the narco war in Colombia, and the thousand of civilians it has also cost, to realize it is not easy to fight against drugs and money.
 
The Taliban are a prime example of when you have the will to end drugs you will do it. They ended almost all drug cultivations/smuggling operations within 10 months of the decision to end it.
 
Those honest cops died because they believed that their government was actually against the drug trade. It was against the drug trade made by the wrong people (FARC) not the right wing militia members who dominate the drug trade currently in Colombia.
 
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pinguin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 15:43
And how do you explain that after the U.S. invasion and occupation of Afganistan, the drug trade reactivated?
Isn't that corruption?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 16:06

I don’t think outright legalization of drugs is an easy answer. For many, including many of the most vulnerable in society, any sort of general legalization would be seen as a stamp of approval; an assurance of safety. Alcohol is legal today in western societies, and is more problematic in many respects than illicit drugs are. There is quite a toll from drinking and driving, and other inappropriate uses of alcohol, but because this substance has been accepted as part of the culture, this is not seen as a critical problem. Freeing up other substances would no doubt bring parallel health and criminal issues.

 

As for criminal gangs, it is true that they make a lot of money because of illegal drugs. But they also make a lot of money because they are criminals, and this is what they do. By that I mean that there are a small minority in the world who will seek personal gain with no regard whatsoever of others life or limb. If drugs are removed from the equation, then something else will come to the fore. It may be people smuggling, identity theft, internet security, gun distribution, protection rackets, prostitution- who knows? Some of these may be a step up from the current world drug trade, but legalization is no panacea- we will still be stuck with human nature.

 

Some sort of limited diversion for users from the legal system to the medical system may be of advantage however. I have read that Portugal’s experience with partial decriminalization has gone fairly well, but haven’t looked into it very deeply. Has anyone read up on this?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 17:06
Originally posted by Al Jassas Al Jassas wrote:

Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

You should have included among the causative factors the various international conventions that ultimately criminalised drug use and distribution. The present powers of 'narco-crime' are entirely due to the criminalisation of use of and dealing in the products, to the extent of forbidding goverments to do so through a nationalised agency.
 
 
 
I completely disagree with this conclusion.
 
If countries wanted to end the drug trade they could do it rather easily,
No they couoldn't. They're bound by treaty not to. Mostly that's because of US pressure in the 50s and 60s. Before that for instance drug talking was legal in Britain (on doctor's prescription) drugs were relatively cheap, and there was no, repeat no, non-trivial dri^f trafficking going on.
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the fact that drugs are a major source of money for intelligence services/useful dictators who actually help run the drugs tells a lot.
It's only a major source of money for intelligence services BECAUSE it is illegal.
 
Quote
Legalisation of drugs won't solve anything. The Dutch and Portuguese experiments showed increases in drug use without significant reduction in either violence or deaths.
 
Note that Portugal didn't make drug trafficking legal so there is still criminal money to be made: however deaths are way down and so is drug use. The Portuguese[1] (pretty hardened drug useres pre-2001) now use less marijuana per head than Americans use cocaine.
 
 
[1] I shoudl point out that a lot of that was probably tourists or expatriates living in Portugal. 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 17:09
Add to that that on reflection I guess other countries are now freeer to act because the US s no longer as persuasive a force as it was foty years ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 17:18
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

I don’t think outright legalization of drugs is an easy answer.

The idea of legalisation is not to reduce drug use, though it does seem to have had that effect in Portugal. The idea of legislation is to stop people seeking and making profits out of it. Luxembourg's policy is to support drug users in centres, and provide things like clean needles and minimal amounts of drugs.  As a result there are addicts around, but no drug-trafficking-related crime. So he addicts have an easier time killing themsels if they want, and the rest of us aren't so endangered.
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For many, including many of the most vulnerable in society, any sort of general legalization would be seen as a stamp of approval; an assurance of safety. Alcohol is legal today in western societies, and is more problematic in many respects than illicit drugs are.
Except there is no massive criminal organisation dealing in it, killing and torturing people virtually at will. Once upon a time there was just such an organisation for trafficking in alcohol. And that was when the US made alcohol illegal.
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There is quite a toll from drinking and driving, and other inappropriate uses of alcohol, but because this substance has been accepted as part of the culture, this is not seen as a critical problem. Freeing up other substances would no doubt bring parallel health and criminal issues.
No more than now. Countries where drug-taking is illegal have higher rates of drug addiction than ones where it is (or was) legal.

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As for criminal gangs, it is true that they make a lot of money because of illegal drugs. But they also make a lot of money because they are criminals, and this is what they do. By that I mean that there are a small minority in the world who will seek personal gain with no regard whatsoever of others life or limb. If drugs are removed from the equation, then something else will come to the fore. It may be people smuggling, identity theft, internet security, gun distribution, protection rackets, prostitution- who knows? Some of these may be a step up from the current world drug trade, but legalization is no panacea- we will still be stuck with human nature.

That's no reason to make it easy for the criminals, as the present situation does.
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Some sort of limited diversion for users from the legal system to the medical system may be of advantage however. I have read that Portugal’s experience with partial decriminalization has gone fairly well, but haven’t looked into it very deeply. Has anyone read up on this?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hugoestr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jan 2011 at 19:24
Often, Graham, all what one can say after you write these responses is "I agree." Well said.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 23:28
Fast Narco Boats









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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 23:40
Very powerful criminals remind me of feudal barons. They only have so much power cause they have "control" so to speak over certain area and control their trade and money with an iron fist and continuing on in "Territory".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2011 at 23:49
Indeed. They aren't different from Feudal lords, Pirates, Mexican bandits, Chicago Gangsters or Roman emperors. 
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