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The un-UN

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AnchoriticSybarite View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnchoriticSybarite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 10:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

When did Australia invade, or attempt to invade Malysia? 


I think this is a jibe at me not you.

And in response. The US didn't care about what Rhodesia did or didn't do to anybody. If you liken the UN to local police, if Donald Trump reports a burglary at his Mar E Lago home or Joe Blow reports the same at Dipwad St in Augusta Ga, the police will respond in either case and if nothing else will do the bare minimum to solve the crime.

The UN repsonds ONLY when it is in the interests of one of the great powers + is not contrary to the interests of one of the other great powers.
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 11:56
Sometimes I just can't figure Franky out.
I often wonder why I try.
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 23:52
I also respond to others besides you, toyomotor.  The only proposal for revising the UN that I know of, is the addition of countries to the security council, such as Brazil, Indonesia, India, Japan, Germany.  I don't think that is going to be suitable for the current members of the security council.  So therefore, I don't see reforms happening any time soon.  As far as what reforms "ought to" happen, I have no idea.  

But I do feel the UN is useful in things.  When I compare it to a slush fund, I am trying to show how it might be useful.  Governments budget for known expenses, the UN handles unknown expenses and long term issues.  Or at least that is how I see it.  So if describing the UN as a slush fund upsets you toyomotor, I am sorry, but a slush fund is a tool, and is useful for particular situations, it is _not_ in my lexicon something that is derogatory, although because it is usually 'off the books' it can be used for nefarious purposes.  If you wish to propose a different model of how it works, I would love to hear it.  Americans always hear complaints because we pay the most, and don't always get what we want.  I don't consider that a problem, but just the way things work.

My point was that it is as ridiculous to blame the Vietnam War on the UN as it would be to credit the UN for preventing Australia from invading Malaysia.  Australia as far as I know, has never tried to invade any of its neighbors, but I wouldn't give the UN credit for that, just like I wouldn't blame the UN on the Vietnam War in any of its manifestations (French, US, Vietnamization, invasion of Cambodia, Laos, war with China).  I would have chosen two South American countries for my example, except that South American countries have fought all kinds of little wars against each other of which I am not aware.  I did not expect toyomotor to get sensitive because I happened to mention Australia. 
 
I see Australia as relatively peaceful, except for their participation in American adventures.  I also see Australia as small in population in a big neighborhood, of India, Indonesia, Malaysia and China, which is why they participate in American adventures, hoping in reciprocal support if some big guy in their neighborhood decides to pick on them.


Edited by franciscosan - 18 Jun 2017 at 23:59
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Vanuatu View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 14:47
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-aid-idUSKBN1521PR

The article at link describes an "International Aid Group" but does not name them specifically. The people involved in these Aid missions are anonymous. They are MBE recipients and other wealthy Europeans who make their way to war torn areas at their own expense.

As others have mentioned the Clinton Foundation and even CARE, loose so much money in acquiring and delivering aid that only 10% of the financial effort actually results in food in a belly. Usually it's dog food because that's all that can pass through without being confiscated. 

The anonymous groups manage to deliver actual food, since they have common sense and bribe checkpoint guards with American cigarettes. So there you go, Marlboro for food. We don't need a veto locked bunch of ineffectual posers. Or UN helmets who are war criminals themselves.

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 18:49
The UN is just another tool in the toolkit, or rather set of tools.  It is good for certain things, not so good for others.  Now, of course, whether it makes economic sense for the US to go on supporting the UN is another question, but I think the UN is at least like that funky tool in the back of the garage that you inherited from your great-grandfather (the tool, not the garage).  Not quite sure best how to use it, but if you get rid of it, fate will deem that you will have to do the job for which it was intended.  Then you will go, "that is what that was for!"

The difference between the conservative and the liberal is that:
the liberal says, "what is this for?" and not being sure, they'll say, "let's get rid of it!"
Whereas,
the conservative says "what is this for?" and not being sure, they'll say, "leave it alone."

Nothing I have read here really clarifies that question, and so for now, I am prone to leave it alone.<grin>  Of course, that doesn't mean that there won't be any more light shed on the issue.
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 02:44
So, perhaps the idea of a New World Order is no so off the wall as most peoplle think?
I often wonder why I try.
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franciscosan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 8 hours 7 minutes ago at 22:22
What do you mean by New World Order?  Do you mean something like Hitler's anticipated New World Order?  It is a danger but probably not in the way that most people think it is a danger.
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toyomotor View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 3 hours 20 minutes ago at 03:09
Franciscosan

By the term "New World Order", I'm referring to such groups as the Bilderbergs, surely you've heard of them. They, and other groups apparently influence world politics, industry and military on a grand scale. I know it's a conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of markers that go towards it's authenticity.


I often wonder why I try.
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