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The un-UN

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnchoriticSybarite Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 10:02
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

When did Australia invade, or attempt to invade Malysia? 


I think this is a jibe at me not you.

And in response. The US didn't care about what Rhodesia did or didn't do to anybody. If you liken the UN to local police, if Donald Trump reports a burglary at his Mar E Lago home or Joe Blow reports the same at Dipwad St in Augusta Ga, the police will respond in either case and if nothing else will do the bare minimum to solve the crime.

The UN repsonds ONLY when it is in the interests of one of the great powers + is not contrary to the interests of one of the other great powers.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 11:56
Sometimes I just can't figure Franky out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2017 at 23:52
I also respond to others besides you, toyomotor.  The only proposal for revising the UN that I know of, is the addition of countries to the security council, such as Brazil, Indonesia, India, Japan, Germany.  I don't think that is going to be suitable for the current members of the security council.  So therefore, I don't see reforms happening any time soon.  As far as what reforms "ought to" happen, I have no idea.  

But I do feel the UN is useful in things.  When I compare it to a slush fund, I am trying to show how it might be useful.  Governments budget for known expenses, the UN handles unknown expenses and long term issues.  Or at least that is how I see it.  So if describing the UN as a slush fund upsets you toyomotor, I am sorry, but a slush fund is a tool, and is useful for particular situations, it is _not_ in my lexicon something that is derogatory, although because it is usually 'off the books' it can be used for nefarious purposes.  If you wish to propose a different model of how it works, I would love to hear it.  Americans always hear complaints because we pay the most, and don't always get what we want.  I don't consider that a problem, but just the way things work.

My point was that it is as ridiculous to blame the Vietnam War on the UN as it would be to credit the UN for preventing Australia from invading Malaysia.  Australia as far as I know, has never tried to invade any of its neighbors, but I wouldn't give the UN credit for that, just like I wouldn't blame the UN on the Vietnam War in any of its manifestations (French, US, Vietnamization, invasion of Cambodia, Laos, war with China).  I would have chosen two South American countries for my example, except that South American countries have fought all kinds of little wars against each other of which I am not aware.  I did not expect toyomotor to get sensitive because I happened to mention Australia. 
 
I see Australia as relatively peaceful, except for their participation in American adventures.  I also see Australia as small in population in a big neighborhood, of India, Indonesia, Malaysia and China, which is why they participate in American adventures, hoping in reciprocal support if some big guy in their neighborhood decides to pick on them.


Edited by franciscosan - 18 Jun 2017 at 23:59
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jun 2017 at 14:47
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-aid-idUSKBN1521PR

The article at link describes an "International Aid Group" but does not name them specifically. The people involved in these Aid missions are anonymous. They are MBE recipients and other wealthy Europeans who make their way to war torn areas at their own expense.

As others have mentioned the Clinton Foundation and even CARE, loose so much money in acquiring and delivering aid that only 10% of the financial effort actually results in food in a belly. Usually it's dog food because that's all that can pass through without being confiscated. 

The anonymous groups manage to deliver actual food, since they have common sense and bribe checkpoint guards with American cigarettes. So there you go, Marlboro for food. We don't need a veto locked bunch of ineffectual posers. Or UN helmets who are war criminals themselves.

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2017 at 18:49
The UN is just another tool in the toolkit, or rather set of tools.  It is good for certain things, not so good for others.  Now, of course, whether it makes economic sense for the US to go on supporting the UN is another question, but I think the UN is at least like that funky tool in the back of the garage that you inherited from your great-grandfather (the tool, not the garage).  Not quite sure best how to use it, but if you get rid of it, fate will deem that you will have to do the job for which it was intended.  Then you will go, "that is what that was for!"

The difference between the conservative and the liberal is that:
the liberal says, "what is this for?" and not being sure, they'll say, "let's get rid of it!"
Whereas,
the conservative says "what is this for?" and not being sure, they'll say, "leave it alone."

Nothing I have read here really clarifies that question, and so for now, I am prone to leave it alone.<grin>  Of course, that doesn't mean that there won't be any more light shed on the issue.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 02:44
So, perhaps the idea of a New World Order is no so off the wall as most peoplle think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 22:22
What do you mean by New World Order?  Do you mean something like Hitler's anticipated New World Order?  It is a danger but probably not in the way that most people think it is a danger.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2017 at 03:09
Franciscosan

By the term "New World Order", I'm referring to such groups as the Bilderbergs, surely you've heard of them. They, and other groups apparently influence world politics, industry and military on a grand scale. I know it's a conspiracy theory, but there are a lot of markers that go towards it's authenticity.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2017 at 22:57
I tend to believe that there are conspiracies, but that there is no overarching conspiracy.  Human "nature" is much too random or capricious.  but that is only my opinion.  I think the Matt Damon, Angelina Jolie movie, "Good Shepherd" depicts well how intelligence services/secret societies crossover in some ways, and how they can be foiled by the human variable.  Best laid plans of mice and men often gang awry.

Hitler's thousand year Reich was supposed to be the New World Order.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 14:19
The Central banking system has led to a world of need and debt. So much useless and necessary crap forcing people into debt. That's not a fiction it was W.Wilson's great regret. The world has always been a hierarchy of families, for man and beast and those lineages go back for thousands of years. 

Is this conspiratorial? Haven't we all seen this in our own lives, in our own communities?
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 15:48
Franciscosan
You appear to take the idea of groups such as the Bilderbegs with a grain of salt. 

Read the below list, which has AFAIK, has never been denied.
Quote

Bilderberg Group

 Attendees List

The only thing more ominous for the world than a Fed raising interest rates is a Bilderberg Group meeting. The concentration of politicians and business leaders has meant the organisation, founded at the Bilderberg Hotel near Arnhem in 1954, has faced accusations of secrecy. Meetings take place behind closed doors, with a ban on journalists. As the 2014 Bilderberg meeting in Copenhagen, Denmark is taking place amidst a climate of panic for many of the 120 globalists set to attend the secretive confab, with Russia’s intransigence on the crisis in Ukraine and the anti-EU revolution sweeping Europe posing a serious threat to the unipolar world order Bilderberg spent over 60 years helping to build. Current list of Participants (source):

Chairman

  • FRA Castries, Henri de Chairman and CEO, AXA Group

Attendees

  • DEU Achleitner, Paul M. Chairman of the Supervisory Board, Deutsche Bank AG
  • DEU Ackermann, Josef Former CEO, Deutsche Bank AG
  • GBR Agius, Marcus Non-Executive Chairman, PA Consulting Group
  • FIN Alahuhta, Matti Member of the Board, KONE; Chairman, Aalto University Foundation
  • GBR Alexander, Helen Chairman, UBM plc
  • USA Alexander, Keith B. Former Comdr, U.S. Cyber Command; Former Director, NSA
  • USA Altman, Roger C. Executive Chairman, Evercore
  • FIN Apunen, Matti Director, Finnish Business and Policy Forum EVA
  • DEU Asmussen, Jörg State Secretary of Labour and Social Affairs
  • HUN Bajnai, Gordon Former Prime Minister; Party Leader, Together 2014
  • GBR Balls, Edward M. Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer
  • PRT Balsem£o, Francisco Pinto Chairman, Impresa SGPS
  • FRA Baroin, François Member of Parliament (UMP); Mayor of Troyes
  • FRA Baverez, Nicolas Partner, Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher LLP
  • USA Berggruen, Nicolas Chairman, Berggruen Institute on Governance
  • ITA Bernabè, Franco Chairman, FB Group SRL
  • DNK Besenbacher, Flemming Chairman, The Carlsberg Group
  • NLD Beurden, Ben van CEO, Royal Dutch Shell plc
  • SWE Bildt, Carl Minister for Foreign Affairs
  • NOR Brandtzæg, Svein Richard President and CEO, Norsk Hydro ASA
  • INT Breedlove, Philip M. Supreme Allied Commander Europe
  • AUT Bronner, Oscar Publisher, Der STANDARD Verlagsgesellschaft m.b.H.
  • SWE Buskhe, Håkan President and CEO, Saab AB
  • TUR Çandar, Cengiz Senior Columnist, Al Monitor and Radikal
  • ESP Cebrián, Juan Luis Executive Chairman, Grupo PRISA
  • FRA Chalendar, Pierre-André de Chairman and CEO, Saint-Gobain
  • CAN Clark, W. Edmund Group President and CEO, TD Bank Group
  • INT Coeuré, Benoît Member of the Executive Board, European Central Bank
  • IRL Coveney, Simon Minister for Agriculture, Food and the Marine
  • GBR Cowper-Coles, Sherard Senior Adviser to the Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc
  • BEL Davignon, Etienne Minister of State
  • USA Donilon, Thomas E. Senior Partner, O’Melveny and Myers; Former U.S. NSA
  • DEU Döpfner, Mathias CEO, Axel Springer SE
  • GBR Dudley, Robert Group Chief Executive, BP plc
  • FIN Ehrnrooth, Henrik Chairman, Caverion Corporation, Otava and Pöyry PLC
  • ITA Elkann, John Chairman, Fiat S.p.A.
  • DEU Enders, Thomas CEO, Airbus Group
  • DNK Federspiel, Ulrik Executive Vice President, Haldor Topsøe A/S
  • USA Feldstein, Martin S. Professor of Economics, Harvard University; President Emeritus, NBER
  • CAN Ferguson, Brian President and CEO, Cenovus Energy Inc.
  • GBR Flint, Douglas J. Group Chairman, HSBC Holdings plc
  • ESP García-Margallo, José Manuel Minister of Foreign Affairs and Cooperation
  • USA Gfoeller, Michael Independent Consultant
  • TUR Göle, Nilüfer Professor of Sociology, École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales
  • USA Greenberg, Evan G. Chairman and CEO, ACE Group
  • GBR Greening, Justine Secretary of State for International Development
  • NLD Halberstadt, Victor Professor of Economics, Leiden University
  • USA Hockfield, Susan President Emerita, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
  • NOR Høegh, Leif O. Chairman, Höegh Autoliners AS
  • NOR Høegh, Westye Senior Advisor, Höegh Autoliners AS
  • USA Hoffman, Reid Co-Founder and Executive Chairman, LinkedIn
  • CHN Huang, Yiping Professor of Economics, National School of Development, Peking University
  • USA Jackson, Shirley Ann President, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
  • USA Jacobs, Kenneth M. Chairman and CEO, Lazard
  • USA Johnson, James A. Chairman, Johnson Capital Partners
  • USA Karp, Alex CEO, Palantir Technologies
  • USA Katz, Bruce J. Vice President and Co-Director, The Brookings Institution
  • CAN Kenney, Jason T. Minister of Employment and Social Development
  • GBR Kerr, John Deputy Chairman, Scottish Power
  • USA Kissinger, Henry A. Chairman, Kissinger Associates, Inc.
  • USA Kleinfeld, Klaus Chairman and CEO, Alcoa
  • TUR Koç, Mustafa Chairman, Koç Holding A.S.
  • DNK Kragh, Steffen President and CEO, Egmont
  • USA Kravis, Henry R. Co-Chairman and Co-CEO, Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co.
  • USA Kravis, Marie-Josée Senior Fellow and Vice Chair, Hudson Institute
  • CHE Kudelski, André Chairman and CEO, Kudelski Group
  • INT Lagarde, Christine Managing Director, International Monetary Fund
  • BEL Leysen, Thomas Chairman of the Board of Directors, KBC Group
  • USA Li, Cheng Director, John L.Thornton China Center,The Brookings Institution
  • SWE Lifvendahl, Tove Political Editor in Chief, Svenska Dagbladet
  • CHN Liu, He Minister, Office of the Central Leading Group on Financial and Economic Affairs
  • PRT Macedo, Paulo Minister of Health
  • FRA Macron, Emmanuel Deputy Secretary General of the Presidency
  • ITA Maggioni, Monica Editor-in-Chief, Rainews24, RAI TV
  • GBR Mandelson, Peter Chairman, Global Counsel LLP
  • USA McAfee, Andrew Principal Research Scientist, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
  • PRT Medeiros, Inês de Member of Parliament, Socialist Party
  • GBR Micklethwait, John Editor-in-Chief, The Economist
  • GRC Mitsotaki, Alexandra Chair, ActionAid Hellas
  • ITA Monti, Mario Senator-for-life; President, Bocconi University
  • USA Mundie, Craig J. Senior Advisor to the CEO, Microsoft Corporation
  • CAN Munroe-Blum, Heather Professor of Medicine,, McGill University
  • USA Murray, Charles A. W.H. Brady Scholar, American Enterprise for Public Policy Research
  • NLD Netherlands, H.R.H. Princess Beatrix of the
  • ESP Nin Génova, Juan María Deputy Chairman and CEO, CaixaBank
  • FRA Nougayrède, Natalie Director and Executive Editor, Le Monde
  • DNK Olesen, Søren-Peter Professor; Member of the Board of Directors, The Carlsberg Foundation
  • FIN Ollila, Jorma Chairman, Royal Dutch Shell, plc; Chairman, Outokumpu Plc
  • TUR Oran, Umut Deputy Chairman, Republican People’s Party (CHP)
  • GBR Osborne, George Chancellor of the Exchequer
  • FRA Pellerin, Fleur State Secretary for Foreign Trade
  • USA Perle, Richard N. Resident Fellow, American Enterprise Institute
  • USA Petraeus, David H. Chairman, KKR Global Institute
  • CAN Poloz, Stephen S. Governor, Bank of Canada
  • INT Rasmussen, Anders Fogh Secretary General, NATO
  • DNK Rasmussen, Jørgen Huno Chairman of the Board of Trustees, The Lundbeck Foundation
  • INT Reding, Viviane Vice President and Commissioner for Justice,European Commission
  • USA Reed, Kasim Mayor of Atlanta
  • CAN Reisman, Heather M. Chair and CEO, Indigo Books & Music Inc.
  • NOR Reiten, Eivind Chairman, Klaveness Marine Holding AS
  • DEU Röttgen, Norbert Chairman, Foreign Affairs Committee, German Bundestag
  • USA Rubin, Robert E. Co-Chair, Council For'n Rel'ns; Former Secretary of the Treasury
  • USA Rumer, Eugene Senior Associate and Director, Russia Carnegie Endowment for Intnl Peace
  • NOR Rynning-Tønnesen, Christian President and CEO, Statkraft AS
  • NLD Samsom, Diederik M. Parliamentary Leader PvdA (Labour Party)
  • GBR Sawers, John Chief, Secret Intelligence Service
  • NLD Scheffer, Paul J. Author; Professor of European Studies, Tilburg University
  • NLD Schippers, Edith Minister of Health, Welfare and Sport
  • USA Schmidt, Eric E. Executive Chairman, Google Inc.
  • AUT Scholten, Rudolf CEO, Oesterreichische Kontrollbank AG
  • USA Shih, Clara CEO and Founder, Hearsay Social
  • FIN Siilasmaa, Risto K. Chairman of the Board of Directors and Interim CEO, Nokia Corporation
  • ESP Spain, H.M. the Queen of
  • USA Spence, A. Michael Professor of Economics, New York University
  • FIN Stadigh, Kari President and CEO, Sampo plc
  • USA Summers, Lawrence H. Charles W. Eliot University Professor, Harvard University
  • IRL Sutherland, Peter D. Chairman, Goldman Sachs International;
  • SWE Svanberg, Carl-Henric Chairman, Volvo AB and BP plc
  • TUR Taftal?, A. Ümit Member of the Board, Suna and Inan Kiraç Foundation
  • USA Thiel, Peter A. President, Thiel Capital
  • DNK Topsøe, Henrik Chairman, Haldor Topsøe A/S
  • GRC Tsoukalis, Loukas President, Hellenic Foundation for European and Foreign Policy
  • NOR Ulltveit-Moe, Jens Founder and CEO, Umoe AS
  • INT Üzümcü, Ahmet Director-General, Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons
  • CHE Vasella, Daniel L. Honorary Chairman, Novartis International
  • FIN Wahlroos, Björn Chairman, Sampo plc
  • SWE Wallenberg, Jacob Chairman, Investor AB
  • SWE Wallenberg, Marcus Chairman of the Board of Directors, Skandinaviska Enskilda Banken AB
  • USA Warsh, Kevin M. Distinguished Visiting Fellow and Lecturer, Stanford University
  • GBR Wolf, Martin H. Chief Economics Commentator, The Financial Times
  • USA Wolfensohn, James D. Chairman and CEO, Wolfensohn and Company
  • NLD Zalm, Gerrit Chairman of the Managing Board, ABN-AMRO Bank N.V.
  • GRC Zanias, George Chairman of the Board, National Bank of Greece
  • USA Zoellick, Robert B. Chairman, The Goldman Sachs Group

 Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b2c_1401404126#XPz6xFsa4BD8O68T.99


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2017 at 15:13
Obviously people are running the world and it's not a democratic process. Why meet if they are not making agreements and colluding?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2017 at 21:54
birthday parties?  maybe they're swapping spit in the shower?  Yes, I take the Bildenberg group lightly, because I cannot do anything about it, nor is it even clear that something should be done.  Could they be "colluding," maybe, but for what?  What does it mean "to collude"?  I have some idea of what it means when two companies collude in order to price-fix the price of widget in a market.  I am not sure it is "meaningful" to talk about collusion, unless one is talking about what the (sketchy, nefarious) purpose of such collusion is for.  I think that such groups generally want to preserve the status quo, and maybe progress it a little.  Preserving and progressing the status quo for them does include preserving and furthering their own interests.  But most of what they want is stability.  And most of what we need in society is stability.  Change is okay, as long as it is below the level of chaos.  I do worry that some day, the only change that will be allowed is managed change, in other words, superficial.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 2017 at 22:06
birthday parties?  maybe they're swapping spit in the shower?  Yes, I take the Bildenberg group lightly, because I cannot do anything about it, nor is it even clear that something should be done.  Could they be "colluding," maybe, but for what?  What does it mean "to collude"?  I have some idea of what it means when two companies collude in order to price-fix the price of widget in a market.  I am not sure it is "meaningful" to talk about collusion, unless one is talking about what the (sketchy, nefarious) purpose of such collusion is for.  I think that such groups generally want to preserve the status quo, and maybe progress it a little.  Preserving and progressing the status quo for them does include preserving and furthering their own interests.  But most of what they want is stability.  And most of what we need in society is stability.  Change is okay, as long as it is below the level of chaos.  I do worry that some day, the only change that will be allowed is managed change, in other words, superficial.

Please explain abbreviations, I know what AFLACK is, I don't know what AFAIK is.  (aflack is insurance sold by a duck on TV). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2017 at 02:24
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

birthday parties?
What are you talking about?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

 maybe they're swapping spit in the shower?  Yes, I take the Bildenberg group lightly, because I cannot do anything about it, nor is it even clear that something should be done.  Could they be "colluding," maybe, but for what?  What does it mean "to collude"?
[/QUOTE]

colluded to keep prices high .
Like when you have an invasive, plentiful species such as giant red crabs that everyone still pays top dollar for because the markets collude to keep prices high among themselves.  


Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

I have some idea of what it means when two companies collude in order to price-fix the price of widget in a market. 
 I am not sure it is "meaningful" to talk about collusion, unless one is talking about what the (sketchy, nefarious) purpose of such collusion is for.

It's a discussion forum. If it's not meaningful why did you respond?

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

 I think that such groups generally want to preserve the status quo, and maybe progress it a little.  Preserving and progressing the status quo for them does include preserving and furthering their own interests.  But most of what they want is stability.  And most of what we need in society is stability.  Change is okay, as long as it is below the level of chaos.  I do worry that some day, the only change that will be allowed is managed change, in other words, superficial.

You have managed to say absolutely nothing. Tuition wasted.

Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Please explain abbreviations, I know what AFLACK is, I don't know what AFAIK is.  (aflack is insurance sold by a duck on TV). 

As Far As I Know...your parents wasted their money sending you to college Clap


Edited by Vanuatu - 29 Jun 2017 at 02:27
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Quote  As Far As I Know...your parents wasted their money sending you to college Clap

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2017 at 00:45
You asked "why meet if they are not making agreements or colluding?"  I said birthday parties.

Yes, colluding in a market to keep prices high, is an example of colluding.  Creating a monopoly or a virtual monopoly is a conspiracy.  I am sure that there are conspiracies, many conspiracies, all going different directions.  What I don't think there is, is an overarching conspiracy that explains Everything.

But local politicians buy up property to take advantage of zoning (that they themselves create), they also make sure their streets don't go through, thus preventing traffic in front of their house (but making the road system more difficult for everyone else).  There are all kinds of conspiracy on the local and small scale, and probably bigger scale as well.  But competing conspiracies, bumping into each other without necessarily knowing who else is there.  And most of those conspiracies are for purposes of greed or family or inflated egos.

I think President Trump is a perfect example of how conspiracies work, he is there to scratch his back, feed his ego and his pocketbook as well.  He is not a billionaire right now, but if he doesn't get there it will only be because he wasn't able to steal enough.  t didn't need to go to college to see what is clear as day, nor did I need to go to college to know that _some_ people are in denial about the damage that Trump is doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2017 at 08:08
I say it's more like the mafia. Individual thugs may have their own side game but unless the godfather gives his blessing, well you know horses head in your bed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jun 2017 at 22:48
Yes, and at Vito Corleone's birthday party you can come, pay your respect and ask him for a favor, if needed.  But someday, you may be asked to do a favor in return.  It is like Bud Fox giving Cuban cigars to Gordon Gekko for Gekko's Birthday, as a way to get his foot in the door.  There is some truth to that, people are not that far away from such basic, fundamental associations even if they participate in the Bildenburg's or the UN, or the Boy Scouts of America.  Is Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts an international conspiracy?  In some ways, no, maybe not international, but in other ways, yes.  There are connections between the military and Boy Scouts, not very substantial but they're there, and the President of the United States is the honorary grand poo-ba, or something like that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jul 2017 at 02:32
Originally posted by franciscosan franciscosan wrote:

Yes, and at Vito Corleone's birthday party you can come, pay your respect and ask him for a favor, if needed.  But someday, you may be asked to do a favor in return.  It is like Bud Fox giving Cuban cigars to Gordon Gekko for Gekko's Birthday, as a way to get his foot in the door.  There is some truth to that, people are not that far away from such basic, fundamental associations even if they participate in the Bildenburg's or the UN, or the Boy Scouts of America.  Is Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts an international conspiracy?  In some ways, no, maybe not international, but in other ways, yes.  There are connections between the military and Boy Scouts, not very substantial but they're there, and the President of the United States is the honorary grand poo-ba, or something like that. 

Which land do you lve in? It certainly isn't reality. You really need to get out more I think, Boy Scouts conspiracies now, what next, you've flipped my old son!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jul 2017 at 01:04
Just for that, I am not going to teach you the secret handshake:P

Yeah, you're right, what would I know having spent 10 years of my life in Boy Scouts of America, both as a youth, and an adult leader.  I am an Eagle Scout, the highest award in Boy Scouts, and elected to Order of the Arrow, what would I know about Boy Scout of America compared to some retiree in Tasmania, Australia.
I said in some ways it is like a conspiracy.  In other ways not.  In any case, I don't consider conspiracy to always be something bad, which is probably something you assume.  Anyways, we originally were talking about the UN, which also is not a conspiracy, but I am sure a lot of conspiracies go through the organization.  Big organizations are like the water that conspiracies swim in.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jul 2017 at 09:15
Frank

In an early post, I asked you for your opinion on what form a new look UN should take.

You've succesfully evaded the question, until now anyway, how about an answer?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jul 2017 at 02:24
I don't see any reason for the UN to change.  And if it was going to change, I don't know enough about international politics to suggest how it should change.  And for that matter, I don't really understand how the UN works already.  But, I do think it works, not perfectly, but I am not in a rush to run out and get "new, improved UN 2.0".  Such things are rarely, if ever, a true improvement.

The only suggestion I know of is revision of the Security Council, to include like, Brazil, India, Japan, Germany.  But if you think the Security Council is cumbersome now, imagine more members, and frankly, adding members is going to dilute those on it already.  I don't expect anybody on it to give up power.

So to "answer" your question, the new should like the old, like it has been since it was founded.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  It works well enough for me, as far as I understand it.  But, if you want to explain how it should be fixed, not with polemics but constructive criticism, criticism that does not want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, feel free to do so.
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