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They say - the truth emerges....

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: They say - the truth emerges....
    Posted: 05 Jun 2015 at 15:12
Definately disturbing....   - if it is the truth? - is it surprising?

I'll let more qualified members make head and tail of this...


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq?CMP=fb_gu
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PeaceB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 02:16
I always thought that ISIS could possibly be an American-funded terrorist organization. Now I know that my concern has become the truth. How sad, because the American military must make terroist organizations from scratch in order to make itself relevant.

Edited by PeaceB - 06 Jun 2015 at 02:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 02:29
I feel very ashamed for the western powers.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 04:13
Yep, it's a snake pit, stirred up and messed up by western imperial interests.

On the other hand, what is going on in Islamic/Middle East society that produces so much murder and mayhem?

Other regions of the planet have been pulled here and there by the tidal forces of imperialism and attempted economic hegemony, but have responded in different ways.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 05:07
That does not convince me to feel unshamed for them.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote franciscosan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 06:27
The article is an opinion piece, or to put it another way, an editorial.  His conclusions don't necessarily follow from what he says, he has an axe to grind.  For example, he characterizes the bomb maker/taxi driver as a poor soul who was just legitimately resisting the illegal invasion of a foreign power.  He obviously has opinion about the legality, and I doubt it is because he has a professional familiarity with the law.  My point is that he is going to unhappy about the situation no matter what, his critique, far from intended to make things better, is a cynical effort to make things worse.  I mean, look at the article again, and ask yourself if he is giving any kind of constructive criticism meant to show a way out of the mess?  Is he even painting an informative picture of the situation, or is his picture meant to lead to the conclusion that things are hopeless, woe is me, and we are all just pawns of the military/industrial, or the surveillance state.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 16:55
The author is not editorializing the fact that Britain is trying to convict its citizens for fighting with the same terrorist groups that M16 is supporting. The links tell the story, the author is angry I don't blame him.

In today's news GB announced that foreign fighters with citizenship in GB will have said citizenship revoked. Thus making it possible to continue their proxy war.

The US is well aware of the proxy war and is engaged in its own. Also US knew well in advance of sarin attacks in Syria (RED LINE-ring a bell?), and intended to use Benghazi as the headquarters for the preferred Sharia/Sunni rebels in Libya. US supports their rule after Bashir is deposed.
No Ambassador Stevens don't schedule that return flight just yet.

Now the object is to support the Sunni militia, after of course supporting the Shiite government while US occupied Iraq. Our government switches sides like a breastfeeding mother of twins.

Edited by Vanuatu - 06 Jun 2015 at 17:14
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 23:12
The first colonel power in the Middle East was the ottoman empire and the influence of that Muslim empire still negatively effects politics in the region.  There is simply no evidence that in the absence of "western" powers the situation would be any better.

It is also worth noting that there is a bit of white man's burden prejudice that shows through in the constant assertion that the west is to blame for all the problems in the world.  How many centuries of political chaos and war did China endure without any western influence?   More relevantly how many muslims died at the hands of other muslims when the influence of the west was very weak in the 7th, 8th and 9th centuries.

Responsibility is usually tied to intellectual competency and I see no reason to assume that western civilization is any more or any less culpable for the problems in the world than any other civilization. Civilizations have as far as I know always engaged in warfare and human rights abuses independent of origin or ethnicity.   Humans seem to like war and chaos and to blame anything other than those predispositions seems naive.

Why is it that few liberals every talk about Russian Imperialism and it's effect on empowering chaos in the Middle East.  It's worth noting that almost every former member of the soviet block prefers western economic imperialism to Russian colonialism.  I'm fairly confident that in the absence of Western civilization the world would still be a pretty cruel place.  

  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jun 2015 at 23:49
Red herring.  Which overseas countries did China meddle in because they had war with peoples trying to impinge upon their sovereignty?  Even the west itself admits to the kind of colonialism that is of the "classic kind".  The west is not just composed of white.  It is also composed of brown (Indian, Russian) and yellow (Japan, Thailand) and beige and whatever colors there happens to be human.

Edited by literaryClarity - 06 Jun 2015 at 23:52
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 00:27
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

The first colonel power in the Middle East was the ottoman empire and the influence of that Muslim empire still negatively effects politics in the region.  There is simply no evidence that in the absence of "western" powers the situation would be any better.

It is also worth noting that there is a bit of white man's burden prejudice that shows through in the constant assertion that the west is to blame for all the problems in the world.  How many centuries of political chaos and war did China endure without any western influence?   More relevantly how many muslims died at the hands of other muslims when the influence of the west was very weak in the 7th, 8th and 9th centuries.

Responsibility is usually tied to intellectual competency and I see no reason to assume that western civilization is any more or any less culpable for the problems in the world than any other civilization. Civilizations have as far as I know always engaged in warfare and human rights abuses independent of origin or ethnicity.   Humans seem to like war and chaos and to blame anything other than those predispositions seems naive.


Why is it that few liberals every talk about Russian Imperialism and it's effect on empowering chaos in the Middle East.  It's worth noting that almost every former member of the soviet block prefers western economic imperialism to Russian colonialism.  I'm fairly confident that in the absence of Western civilization the world would still be a pretty cruel place.  

  


Please explain the first line... do you mean 'colonial' powers? Wouldn't that be Babylonian Empire?

Second line..do you mean the in the absence of war with the west?

Third line..who is suggesting that in this topic? West is to blame for all the world's ills? White man SHWAAA?

Fourth line..always engaged in warfare so.. keep it up?

Fifth line..humans as opposed to.. marmosets?

Sixth line..Russia is a part of this but not the part that you are talking about. China and Russia will flip sides just as the US does.

Seventh line..why is it worth noting in this discussion? The discussion was not the entirety of Western Civilization, its right here right now. Didn't we have an Enlightenment? You don't trust the Dept. of Justice but you trust the CIA? If that sounds off topic it is. Thank you



Edited by Vanuatu - 07 Jun 2015 at 00:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 02:28
The point I'm trying to make is that even the occupation of Iraq and it's horrible consequence are unlikely to have had as much influence over the long term course of events in the Middle East as many people would like to believe. 

When we talk of Western Civilization we are generally speaking about Western Europe, North and South America, Australia, New Zealand and maybe a couple other regions.  It should be easy to agree that in general Western Civilization is defined as the successor to Greek and Roman culture.  That Western civilizaton has had a dramatic impact on the cultures of other regions goes without saying but to characterize it as an entirely negative impact is naive.  The underlying forces that formulated much of cultural evolution are largely undirected and undirectable.  We will always be faced with limitations and it becomes a question of encouraging the good and minimizing the bad.  Mistakes are unavoidable and it is important to recognize shared responsibility.  The people of the Middle East are not just victims but share the responsibility for the present political chaos.

Centuries of religious warfare in Western Europe should be a clue to the naivety of blaming colonialism for what is going on in the Middle East.  Much of the rhetoric concerning Western responsibility for the failures of other cultures is simply political opportunism in opposition to capitalism when history teaches us that warfare is independent of economic organization to a large extent.  

Anyone who misses the irony of how if there had been no enlightenment there would likely be no discussion of human rights is also missing the key factor in what is happening in the Middle East.  With or without colonialism history teaches us that sectarian violence is likely to irrupt where primitive 
religions such as "christianity", Judaism, and Mohammedanism are present.  

The Far East however teaches us that in the absent of religion as a pretext for violence warfare is common place.  As best I can tell warfare is universal and not the product of any given cultural influence.  The horrible events in Africa over the last 50 years also call into question the much touted role that modern weapons play in instability.  Surely no one should need to be reminded of the total destruction of populations by the mongols in the absent of modern weapons.

Even Western Europe's enlightenment can perhaps be challenged by the possession of nuclear weapons by Britain, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany for self defence.   Is anyone really naive enough to think these nations would make themselves targets if there was no "real" need.  The evidence suggest that is not enlightenment that has prevented warfare in Western Europe since the last two "world" wars but fear.  Russia aggressively colonized Eastern Europe as recently as the the 1970s so we are not talking about events from the distant past.  The cultural evolution away from those practices that induce war are much exaggerated and appear independent of liberal democracy or socialism. 

  "Man is a military animal, glories in gunpowder, and loves parade."

Philip James Bailey

Given enough stress the thin veneer of Enlightenment will crack.   We face many challenges in preventing the tipping point where the stresses out weigh social stability.  Some of these challenges are within our control and some are "natural".  One of the most important "natural" threats we face is overpopulation which complicates every other problem we face.  It is also certain that demographics play a role in the political problems of the Middle East where large numbers of underemployed young males are easily recruited to violence.  Again however the role that colonialism plays in the failure of Middle Eastern to provide economic opportunity is greatly exaggerated and ignores the many other cultural factors.   The fact that only China has politically addressed population growth hints at the limits of political organization to address fundamental issues. 

There are practical steps we can take to ease the misery in the Middle East but in the long run the best we can do is turn people away from the ignorance of primitive religions and reliance on political ideology to solve their problems.  There are no short cuts nor any substitutes for hard work and good manners.  We don't have to agree with each other we just need to work together.    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 03:33
Bunch of red herrings and strawman's to again bring needless attention to things out of the scope of the real discussion.  The truth is western powers campaigning in certain ways has indeed led to blowback and other dangerous machinations which present themselves in the modern era as opposition to their actions.  Western civilization, the accumulation of "ways of life" in those associated regions, is not equal to the values of their foreign policy.  They are two different issues.  In other words it is not the campaign of western civilization to produce strategies to "gain an upper hand" in people's affairs outside those territories but rather it is the campaign of western powers and their associated political ideologies in the present that needs looking into.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 04:13
[QUOTE=wolfhnd]
The point I'm trying to make is that even the occupation of Iraq and it's horrible consequence are unlikely to have had as much influence over the long term course of events in the Middle East as many people would like to believe. 


Well if that was the point why not say so, and where do you feel the author of the article is saying this?


When we talk of Western Civilization we are generally speaking about Western Europe, North and South America, Australia, New Zealand and maybe a <span style="line-height: 1.4;">couple other regions.  It should be easy to agree that in general Western Civilization is defined as the successor to Greek and Roman culture.  That </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">Western civilizaton has had a dramatic impact on the cultures of other regions goes without saying but to characterize it as an entirely negative impact is </span><span style="line-height: 1.4;">naive.  The underlying forces that formulated much of cultural evolution are largely undirected and undirectable.  We will always be faced with limitations and it becomes a question of encouraging the good and minimizing the bad.  

I don't agree that forces are undirected and undetectable. I see no proof of that in your statement. What are covert operations if not directed influence?

As for the rest of your narrative I started having vertigo but I got through it. That's some pretty talk masked man. It has nothing to do with the article but I remain deeply moved.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 04:15
It's not called The Guardinista for nothing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 04:33
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

Red herring.  Which overseas countries did China meddle in because they had war with peoples trying to impinge upon their sovereignty?  Even the west itself admits to the kind of colonialism that is of the "classic kind".  The west is not just composed of white.  It is also composed of brown (Indian, Russian) and yellow (Japan, Thailand) and beige and whatever colors there happens to be human.


Not at all.  The definition of what countries constitute the West hasn't been settled. Japan, South Korea, India or Thailand for example may be currently influenced by the countries identifying as Western but their culture, long histories, written or spoken language is deeply rooted in Asia. Western influence upon them is a recent phenomenon that only covers 2 or 3 centuries as compared to their, what ... 17+ centuries of preexistence within an organized society with written histories, prior to the West coming along.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 04:45
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

Definately disturbing....   - if it is the truth? - is it surprising?

I'll let more qualified members make head and tail of this...


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq?CMP=fb_gu


Unfortunately, in our post colonial world (And i am paraphrasing here), by the time truth  gets its pants on, lies have already traveled around the world 2 or 3 dozens times.

To me, this is an editorial only, masking as a news and report devoid of any sophisticated analysis.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 04:59
I disagree with that analysis.  Influence in the long term constitutes a relationship whereby the accumulative effects of civilization is an accumulative one of what can be applied as "ways of life".  The history and language as it applies to each territorial region has nothing to do with it.  What we mean by these umbrella terms "western" or "eastern" is merely that, an umbrella term to which each region might choose to identify with.

If one can summarize the accumulative of western civilization has led to pluralism, democratic thinking, nation states, and things of that nature.  The accumulative of eastern civilization has led to totalitarianism (China being the prime example), holistic thinking, civilization states, and things of that nature.  In other words the politics that a region identifies with is very significant with the parameters of its civilization.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 05:30
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

I disagree with that analysis.  Influence in the long term constitutes a relationship whereby the accumulative effects of civilization is an accumulative one of what can be applied as "ways of life".  The history and language as it applies to each territorial region has nothing to do with it.  What we mean by these umbrella terms "western" or "eastern" is merely that, an umbrella term to which each region might choose to identify with.

If one can summarize the accumulative of western civilization has led to pluralism, democratic thinking, nation states, and things of that nature.  The accumulative of eastern civilization has led to totalitarianism (China being the prime example), holistic thinking, civilization states, and things of that nature.  In other words the politics that a region identifies with is very significant with the parameters of its civilization.


Western influence in the East, to my mind, is largely confined to economics and technology. In some ways, this also includes academia. Western influence on Asian politics, while briefly controlled for 2 centuries by colonialism with some lasting impact, has had a minimal effect on the over all Asian organization of their governance by choice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 05:43
The influences are always present but it is irrespective of the fact whether the country itself would choose to identify with the western or eastern umbrella term of civilization in a declarative format.  You can import all the advances of the west into China and China would not call itself the west but Japan would while for a place like India it would not call itself east despite any variation of holistic pseudo religious thinking that it spread in the form of Buddhism.

Colonialism created machinations of backlash to western powers (again I emphasize the power of the nation in the form of their foreign policy) such as the rise of Communist regimes and which had anti-west or specifically anti US rhetoric but these are not in of themselves the final judgement of their "way of life".  In the end they are not eternally ideologically governed by their reactionary politics but by their very way of life which has little to do with the words one speaks or the music one listens to as these are very superficial cultural factors.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 07:17
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

It's not called The Guardinista for nothing.

It's my favorite news source Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wolfhnd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 08:12
I accept that my comments are off topic but the OP is clearly an opinion piece posing as news so it offers a lot of lee way. Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 18:28
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

I accept that my comments are off topic but the OP is clearly an opinion piece posing as news so it offers a lot of lee way. Wink




I going out on a limb here but my guess is that Northman posted this not because of the editorial jazz from an opinion writer (which is a perfectly acceptable way to make a living).


I'm guessing it was the fact that two weeks prior to releasing a guy named Bherlin Gildo, another man was sentenced to life in prison (the Horror, Right?) for the same offense. They were both involved with the militia of Syrian rebels Al Nusra.

One had a better lawyer, they reckoned that since GB is part of a "Rat Line" that includes the US, Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Qatar and they supply the rebels; how does GB prosecute an individual for fighting in their ranks? We are talking Body Armour, Armored Vehicles, training and support and "arms on a massive scale."

Then there is the release of classified documents from former Chief of staff Denis Mc Donough that reveal the Sarin attacks of 2013, (RED LINE) were not ordered by Bashir. The samples match the Rat Line from Turkey, not the known samples of Bashir's stash.
The DIA paper went on: ‘Previous IC [intelligence community] focus had been almost entirely on Syrian CW [chemical weapons] stockpiles; now we see ANF attempting to make its own CW … Al-Nusrah Front’s relative freedom of operation within Syria leads us to assess the group’s CW aspirations will be difficult to disrupt in the future.’ The paper drew on classified intelligence from numerous agencies: ‘Turkey and Saudi-based chemical facilitators,’ it said, ‘were attempting to obtain sarin precursors in bulk, tens of kilograms, likely for the anticipated large scale production effort in Syria.’ (Asked about the DIA paper, a spokesperson for the director of national intelligence said: ‘No such paper was ever requested or produced by intelligence community analysts.’)

"Last May, more than ten members of the al-Nusrah Front were arrested in southern Turkey with what local police told the press were two kilograms of sarin. In a 130-page indictment the group was accused of attempting to purchase fuses, piping for the construction of mortars, and chemical precursors for sarin. Five of those arrested were freed after a brief detention. The others, including the ringleader, Haytham Qassab, for whom the prosecutor requested a prison sentence of 25 years, were released pending trial. In the meantime the Turkish press has been rife with speculation that the Erdoğan administration has been covering up the extent of its involvement with the rebels. In a news conference last summer, Aydin Sezgin, Turkey’s ambassador to Moscow, dismissed the arrests and claimed to reporters that the recovered ‘sarin’ was merely ‘anti-freeze’."

"Washington abruptly ended the CIA’s role in the transfer of arms from Libya after the attack on the consulate, but the rat line kept going. ‘The United States was no longer in control of what the Turks were relaying to the jihadists,’ the former intelligence official said. Within weeks, as many as forty portable surface-to-air missile launchers, commonly known as manpads, were in the hands of Syrian rebels."

"Barring a major change in policy by Obama, Turkey’s meddling in the Syrian civil war is likely to go on. ‘I asked my colleagues if there was any way to stop Erdoğan’s continued support for the rebels, especially now that it’s going so wrong,’ the former intelligence official told me. ‘The answer was: “We’re screwed.” We could go public if it was somebody other than Erdoğan, but Turkey is a special case. They’re a Nato ally. The Turks don’t trust the West. They can’t live with us if we take any active role against Turkish interests. If we went public with what we know about Erdoğan’s role with the gas, it’d be disastrous. The Turks would say: “We hate you for telling us what we can and can’t do.”’

So you see that is a sample of the substance of the links to the editorial piece. Its an opinion based on facts, lots more in the links, that's why the tone of the editorial is secondary in my opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jun 2015 at 21:45
Originally posted by wolfhnd wolfhnd wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

It's not called The Guardinista for nothing.

It's my favorite news source Ouch


Sorry. It's only my opinion that i share with other people. I've become, unfortunately... too jaded when it comes to any news organizations.
Opinions being what they are, It's perfectly fine to have a news source that you like. As for me, my modest expectations are always too high and i am horribly picky. I want to not only be informed but also impressed with the quality of a news article. These types of news reports have become a rarity in our world.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2015 at 15:58
Spare the effort of clicking a link...Hersh has grit. Shamus Cooke not the only writer defending Hersh.



http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-behind-the-medias-assault-on-seymour-hersh/5450671

He’s the most respected journalist in U.S. history, and for decades Seymour Hersh has consistently broken major international stories, winning him the Pulitzer Prize among other prestigious awards of journalism.

But the media establishment that once idealized him now seeks his destruction. Hersh is facing a coordinated attack from his former colleagues, each scrambling to drive in the next knife.

Hersh’s recent report on the killing of Osama Bin Laden and his prior investigation of Obama’s aborted 2013 bombing of Syria have attracted a synchronized media smear campaign.

But Hersh’s attackers are a clumsy bunch. The hysterics and uniformity of the attack says less about the victim than it does the perpetrators, who share a self interest in shredding Hersh’s stellar reputation.

Hersh’s last two investigations exposed major lies of the Obama administration; but they also exposed the complete failure of the U.S. media, who’ve been willing captives to the sloppy narratives spun by the Obama administration.

For example, Hersh’s 2014 articles on Syria were a damning exposure of Obama’s lies to the U.S. public in his attempt to start a fresh war. The media responded to Hersh’s sensational Syria articles with collective silence. They simply ignored them and did no follow up, leaving the lies of the Obama administration unchallenged. The few bold enough to challenge Hersh mocked him as a “conspiracy theorist,” never bothering to address Hersh’s allegations.

One of the biggest “conspiracies” that Hersh uncovered in Syria was that the Turkish government was secretly working with the extremist group al-Nusra Front to topple the Syrian government; this at the same time as the Obama administration was coordinating with Turkey toward the same goal. This “conspiracy” is now openly acknowledged, as Turkey and Saudi Arabia are publicly coordinating with the al Nusra Front and its sister extremist group, Ahrar al-Sham, under the umbrella group “Conquest Army.”

The media’s collective silence over Hersh’s Syria articles has now turned into a coordinated attack, in response to Hersh’s revelations about Obama’s lie-ridden narrative of the death of Bin-Laden.

A pack mentality gripped the media, rabid and snarling; but the bites lacked teeth. They nipped at Hersh’s ankles and he scattered them with a laugh. He’s comfortable being in the cross-hairs of power, having always emerged vindicated.

The sharpest allegation launched against Hersh was itself dull. He was lambasted for using anonymous sources, while other sources just weren’t good enough. Here’s the Wall Street Journal’s version of the most popular attack on Hersh:

“Mr. Hersh’s 10,356-word account is based nearly exclusively on a handful of unnamed sources — which can’t be fact-checked — and mainly one retired U.S. intelligence official. One of the only named sources is Asad Durrani, a former director of Pakistani intelligence…”

Ironically, this quote — which purposely waters down the extent of the sources — helps Hersh, since It shows that he used more sources than the vast majority of stories written by the U.S. media on matters of foreign policy.

Typically the U.S. media relies on a single source: the Obama administration.

And very often this single source is anonymous, referred to as a “senior government official.” Facts aren’t checked and tough questions are never asked. What Obama says becomes “fact,” and if someone like Hersh challenges the narrative the media skewers the challenger.

Anonymous sources are acceptable when the reporter believes the person they are talking to has access to knowledge about the situation being reported. If the story is especially controversial several sources are helpful to corroborate the report, as Hersh used in his last two major investigations.

A New York Times reporter is allowed to use anonymous sources because the publication is known to have access to those in power. Hersh has likewise earned the benefit of doubt regarding sources. No one has doubted — until now suddenly — that Hersh has access to high-ranking government figures, thanks to his international celebrity and spotless reporting record.

It’s unfortunate that many of Hersh’s sources must remain anonymous, but this is due, in part, to the blanket of fear that Obama used to suffocate truth, having prosecuted more whistle-blowers than all previous administrations combined. The Bin Laden raid remains highly classified, and those who go on record publicly can expect long prison sentences, or possibly worse.

The secondary media attacks used against Hersh were even shallower, amounting to dozens of pathetic attempts to poke holes in his logic.

Asking probing questions is of course a key part of journalism. If only the media had been so eager to ask similar questions of the Obama administration’s version of Bin-Laden’s death.

Even after the Obama administration admitted that its initial versions of the Bin Laden assassination were false, the media immediately settled comfortably into the new version, not wondering about the motive behind the previous false story, nor curious about the flaws of logic in the new version.

Hersh’s version of Bin-Laden’s death is logically superior to that of the Obama administration’s. And it’s this logic that Hersh’s article is grounded in. For example Hersh’s opening paragraph:


“The White House’s story might have been written by Lewis Carroll: would bin Laden, target of a massive international manhunt, really decide that a resort town [with a large military facility] forty miles from Islamabad would be the safest place to live and command al-Qaida’s operations?”

The gaping holes of logic in the official story were there from the beginning. Hersh actually asked questions and explored them while the rest of the media were content with regurgitating White House press releases.

And when the White House’s narrative became an Oscar winning movie — made with help from the CIA — the myth was cemented in popular culture. Until Hersh shattered it.

Interestingly, a longtime Middle East correspondent, Carlotta Gall, said publicly that “my own reporting [on the death of Bin Laden] tracks with Hersh’s.” Reporters from NBC made similar statements. But individuals who spoke up were immediately shouted down by the choir.

The media has a self-interest in maintaining the Bin Laden fiction because they’ve been an important cog in the lie machine. Additionally, the media has a huge stake in maintaining cozy relations with the Obama administration, since the White House rewards the “good media” by leaking selective stories to “good reporters” via anonymous “senior government officials.”

Obama’s motive for lying about the death of Bin Laden is the real story here, hidden under the piles of slander against Hersh. Why would Obama lie about Bin Laden’s assassination?

The motive is obvious: the Bin Laden death narrative protects the tortures of the Bush administration while giving spectacular PR to the lynch pin of U.S. foreign policy — the so-called “war on terror.”

For example, the film Zero Dark Thirty is based on the White House’s narrative. The outcome of the film is essentially an Oscar winning state-sponsored propaganda film: the fictional drama showing how the CIA successfully hunted down Bin Laden with a combination of cunning, technology and torture.

Hersh’s article exploded this lie, humiliating everyone who took part in it.

After Hersh uncovered the tip of the torture iceberg with his Abu Ghraib reporting in 2004, people around the world howled for justice and demanded the torturers be prosecuted. Obama took no action, and the Bin Laden assassination lie has been used to protect the criminals.

More importantly, the White House-Zero Dark Thirty narrative gave a mighty PR boost to the “war on terror,” where the U.S. throws hundreds of billions of dollars into bombs, warplanes, and mass surveillance that has proved to be a miraculous failure. The war on terror has “succeeded” only in further destabilizing the Middle East that then fertilizes the ground for extremist groups like ISIS.

Ultimately, the bi-partisan attack on Hersh shows the complete media conformity on U.S. foreign policy, where Republicans, Democrats, and even “progressive” media have come to accept a governmental policy of never-ending war and mass surveillance. No questions asked.

When Bush was president, there were divisions in the establishment over the Iraq war, and the liberal media were given freedom to attack. But the liberal media have been co-opted under Obama.

And the right-wing media share Obama’s foreign policy vision too. Hersh opened a door for Fox News to attack Obama on Syria and Bin Laden, but Fox slammed it shut and instead attacked Hersh. Yes, the right wing media hates Obama, but they can’t attack him on foreign policy because they agree with him, aside from the occasional quip about Obama not being aggressive enough. This bipartisan agreement on foreign policy has given Obama tremendous freedom to launch drone wars in six countries and lead a proxy war in Syria that Hersh helped expose last year.

When combined with the NSA spying program, Obama’s lies make previous presidential scandals — such as Watergate and Iran-Contra — look incredibly tame, while making the U.S. media look like accomplices instead of news reporters.

Shamus Cooke is a social service worker, trade unionist, and writer for Workers Action (www.workerscompass.org). He can be reached at shamuscooke@gmail.com



http://www.opednews.com/articles/Obama-Versus-Hersh-Who-s-by-Sherwood-Ross-Execution_Firefight_LIES_Navy-150613-503.html

Edited by Vanuatu - 15 Jun 2015 at 16:16
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2015 at 18:07
The US Government’s Not-So-Secret Support for Al Qaeda and ISIS

The Biggest State Sponsor of Terrorism of Them All

by Dan Sanchez, June 09, 2015


Why hasn’t Fox News been blasting alerts like “Obama Backs Muslim Terrorists, Helping to Create the Islamic State” for years? Wouldn’t their xenophobic viewers gobble up such red meat with relish? Couldn’t the Republicans make stacks of political hay with such a talking point?

But, no, apparently bigotry and scaremongering are only to be harnessed to support war, and never to oppose it. The right’s criticism of Obama’s Syria policy has been that he hasn’t supported the al-Qaeda/ISIS-led Syrian opposition enough. Apparently, the lesson of 9/11 is that we must embrace perpetual war, even if it means fighting with the perpetrators of 9/11 in that war.


Washington hawks have deflected such criticism by denying that al-Qaeda and ISIS are all that dominant in the insurgency, or that foreign support of the opposition helped lead to the 2014 rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria. Such deflections have been made increasingly untenable by mounting evidence, and especially by the recent disclosure of an incredibly damning Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) report from August 2012.

That document contained a frank admission that:


“THE SALAFIST[S], THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD, AND AQI ARE THE MAJOR FORCES DRIVING THE INSURGENCY IN SYRIA.”

Investigative journalist Nafeez Ahmed excellently summarized what the DIA considered to be the goals and likely consequences of supporting such a Salafist-dominated insurgency:

In a strikingly prescient prediction, the Pentagon document explicitly forecasts the probable declaration of ‘an Islamic State through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria.’


Nevertheless, ‘Western countries, the Gulf states and Turkey are supporting these efforts’ by Syrian ‘opposition forces’ fighting to ‘control the eastern areas (Hasaka and Der Zor), adjacent to Western Iraqi provinces (Mosul and Anbar)’:


‘… there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared Salafist Principality in eastern Syria (Hasaka and Der Zor), and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the Syrian regime, which is considered the strategic depth of the Shia expansion (Iraq and Iran).’


The secret Pentagon document thus provides extraordinary confirmation that the US-led coalition currently fighting ISIS, had three years ago welcomed the emergence of an extremist ‘Salafist Principality’ in the region as a way to undermine Assad, and block off the strategic expansion of Iran. Crucially, Iraq is labeled as an integral part of this ‘Shia expansion.’


The establishment of such a ‘Salafist Principality’ in eastern Syria, the DIA document asserts, is ‘exactly’ what the ‘supporting powers to the [Syrian] opposition want.’ Earlier on, the document repeatedly describes those ‘supporting powers’ as ‘the West, Gulf countries, and Turkey.’


Further on, the document reveals that Pentagon analysts were acutely aware of the dire risks of this strategy, yet ploughed ahead anyway.


The establishment of such a ‘Salafist Principality’ in eastern Syria, it says, would create ‘the ideal atmosphere for AQI to return to its old pockets in Mosul and Ramadi.’ Last summer, ISIS conquered Mosul in Iraq, and just this month has also taken control of Ramadi.


Such a quasi-state entity will provide:


‘… a renewed momentum under the presumption of unifying the jihad among Sunni Iraq and Syria, and the rest of the Sunnis in the Arab world against what it considers one enemy. ISI could also declare an Islamic State through its union with other terrorist organizations in Iraq and Syria, which will create grave danger in regards to unifying Iraq and the protection of territory.’”

The DIA document was too big an anti-Obama scoop for Fox News not to cover at all. Yet they still managed to give the story a pro-interventionist spin. They did so by focusing on Obama’s alleged low estimation of the threat of ISIS and the Libyan jihadists (especially his reference to ISIS as a “Jayvee team”), and how the predictions in the report belie that low estimation. Yet, they completely glossed over the report’s statement that the predicted rise of ISIS would be a result of support for the Syrian opposition by the west and its allies, since Salafists like al-Qaeda and ISIS were the driving force of that opposition.

As incredible as the DIA disclosure is, its basic import has been an open secret for years."


http://original.antiwar.com/dan_sanchez/2015/06/08/the-us-governments-not-so-secret-support-for-al-qaeda-and-isis/
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Jun 2015 at 15:30
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/05/22/binl-m22.html

"The only other significant attempt to rebut Hersh’s account also had the CIA as its source. Michael Morell, former deputy director of the agency, now retired and serving as a highly paid media “expert” on terrorism, gave a detailed rejoinder to Hersh that was published in the Wall Street Journal’s op-ed page and widely cited by other commentators.

Morell denied that the raid on bin Laden was carried out with the knowledge and cooperation of the Pakistani military, denied that the CIA learned of bin Laden’s location from a “walk-in” seeking a monetary reward (rather than from torturing prisoners, as the agency and its propaganda video, Zero Dark Thirty, claimed), denied that the CIA obtained DNA samples to confirm bin Laden’s identity before the raid, denied that there was little intelligence material collected in Abbottabad, and denied that the Navy Seals tossed bin Laden’s bullet-shredded body from their helicopter rather than sending it for burial at sea, with full Muslim rites.

The retired CIA official offered as the sole evidence for all his arguments—himself! He, Michael Morell, was present at White House meetings that discussed concealing the raid from the Pakistanis; he, Michael Morell, oversaw the intelligence-gathering and interrogations that located bin Laden; he, Michael Morell, saw the “treasure trove” of documents and viewed photographs of the burial at sea. And of course, no top CIA official, active or “retired,” would ever lie about these matters to the American people. The entire argument is ludicrous, self-evidently so.

As for the American media, it has sought to deal with the Hersh revelations by suppressing their content and smearing Hersh as delusional. In a scathing review of the media response, published in the Columbia Journalism Review, Trevor Timm, executive director of the Freedom of the Press Foundation, wrote:

“The media’s reaction to Seymour Hersh’s bin Laden scoop has been disgraceful.

Seymour Hersh has done the public a great service by breathing life into questions surrounding the official narrative of the raid that killed Osama bin Laden. Yet instead of trying to build off the details of his story, or to disprove his assertions with additional reporting, journalists have largely attempted to tear down the messenger.”
The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vanuatu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2015 at 12:02
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/this-world-the-bin-laden-conspiracy-tv-review-so-what-did-we-learn-about-the-death-of-bin-laden-absolutely-nothing-10327311.html

The Independent Thursday 18 June 2015

The programme's presenter Jane Corbin attempted balance but was thwarted by lack of footage and sources

"We had Mike Morell, the former deputy director of the CIA giving his account and a couple of people who backed up parts of Hersh's story but this programme was more characterised by absence. There was no sign of the "retired senior intelligence official", Hersh's most vital source; none of the Navy Seals on the operation contributed; the compound in Abbottabad that housed Bin Laden has been destroyed; no pictorial evidence of his body was ever released. Instead we got old news reports, oft-used Obama's bunker snaps and elderly footage of Corbin in Abbottabad and Tora Bora. New material consisted mostly of night footage and dimly lit reconstructed scenes, including Bin Laden in a Stetson (one of his key disguises, brilliantly).

We were left having learnt pretty much nothing. Thank goodness Morrell was there to clarify things: "100 per cent of the story that is out there is true but not 100 per cent of the story is out there."

The root of all desires is the one desire: to come home, to be at peace. -Jean Klein
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