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Time Is Of The Essence

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    Posted: 27 May 2014 at 15:35
What is Time? On the one hand it's an easy concept, one moment passing another, a cycle of events and relationships, or simply another set of rules to direct our lives. On the other hand, if we try to determine exactly what Time is, we run into huge conceptual problens because none of us really understand it. Even those good humoured physicists on television documentaries don't claim to understand it fully.

There are many ways of looking at Time that have appeared in science journals and science fiction. One is to regard it simply as a stream of events, upon which a traveller can, if sufficiently capable, travel back and forth along besides being stuck in the flow like the rest of us. This concept ceates the famous paradox of killing your direct ancestor before you were born. Once you pull the trigger, how could you therefore exist to aim the gun? It makes little sense unless we create alternative branches of Time, that our actions dictate which branch we move upon, which itself is prone to criticism.

The next step in conceptualisation is therefore to extend the stream of Time into a flat dimension all of its own, one of the great favourites of science fiction, an easily understood idea but one that's really a convenience for storytelling than any serious description of reality.

Einstein however asserted that Space and Time are not seperate entities, but are linked. His Theories of Relativity describe a universe that is curved in four dimensions, with mass distorting the flatness, creating gravity in the process - the strength of gravity is therefore how steep the slope is in our distorted Space/Time. This is the basis for modern physics regarding how Time works. We can show that Time is not constant - even our GPS satellites need to add a small mathematical bias to allow for the differences that orbital speeds and lesser gravity create. Time can be slowed down by increasing speed or gravity. Our simply by waiting for something to happen, but of course that's more to do with our perception of Time - itself a very different argument.

The interest in Time as a universal property is not so much about whether we understand it (higher level physics is full of difficult concepts and relationships, and a newer branch, called Quantum Mechanics, is insidiously alien to conventional thought and not completely understood even by the experts who study it), but whether we can travel in it. That's the intriguing possibility that creates so much debate, although it must be said there's a distinct lack of time travellers popping up to enjoy the sights and sounds, yes, even the smells, of the Twenty-First Century.

You or I cannot perceive Time other than the passing of one moment to another, and even that varies. As children a day lasts forever, yet at my age half the day vanishes every time I think about what I want to do next. A hectic schedule makes a day whizz by, and waiting patiently seems to slow the clock on the wall to its lowest possible rate. We cannot see the past or future (unless you claim to have psychic powers), nor can we move beyond our fixed place in the flow of Time, so we cannot either move into the future or the past.

It's often claimed that by travelling at relativistic speeds, it becomes possible to travel into the future, because the traveller experiences Time at a much slower rate. Actually that's not quite a good way of describing it, because the traveller wouldn't notice anything different, other than the universe outside his ship speeding up and fizzling out if he doesn't hit the brakes quickly. Someone elses future therefore but not his own, because at no point on that journey does the spaceship ever leave the Present. The observer back on Earth could follow the starship blasting across the heavens with a powerful enough telescope. There's no time travel involved, just a manipulation of Space/Time differences.

One quaint theory suggests that the Universe might be looped, so that the end meets the beginning. Is there any actual evidence for this other that a sense of deja vu? Although touted as a possible way of avoiding our inability to move back in Time, it still suffers from the same essential problem that all dimensional theories of Time return to - that by creating a fixed past and future causality, our lives are effectivelty pre-determined and Fate is therefore built into the universe. It's not an easy reality to accept.

So scientists invent parallel dimensions or existences that allow us to go sideways in Space/Time and thus avoid paradox, but again, this is simply theorising to create a potential for time travel than actually describing reality.

So lets look at Time and what we know about it. What do we know about it? Well, fairly obviously, we understand that Time only has one direction, a variable pace, a relationship to the space it exists in, that causality prevents events from chaotic re-ordering, that it is has predictable properties, and that we cannot manipulate it directly.

At this point, with this information, your guess is as good as anyone elses.I therefore present my own theory, a variant of the atemporal genre of universe conceptualisations, which you're entitled to enjoy or destroy at your leisure. So without further ado...

The Caldrail Now-verse
At each instant, the universe exists in a certain quantum state. All the energy and matter the uiverse contains is going about it's business , but described in one moment at a sampled condition. In the next instance, according to properties and influences, a new quantum state is defined. We have experienced Change. There is nothing in the universe that records the previous quantum state, nor does it contain any structure predicting a future state.

'Now' is all you get. You can only exist in this moment of existence, because there is no other. It is only possible to travel in Time if the Past or Future concurrently exists for you to travel to. You cannot trravel to the Past because the Past has changed and gone. You cannot move into the Future because the Future hasn't happened yet.

In this conceptualisation, Time is not dimensional, nor is the relationship with Space entirely Einsteinian. Neither is it a universal property. It is a function of quantum mechanics. In the same way that a universe exists because the universe is 'happening', a result of processes that form higher levels of reality, so Time exists only because we experience Change. It is an illusory quality. Each tiny component of our Space/Time has a rate of quantum change, and therefore generates the impression of Time from within the quantum article, not from outside in the universe as an external property.. Time is therefore the sum total of Change.

What are the ramifactions of this Now-verse? Firstly, time travel cannot occur because nothing exists outside of Now. It really is impossible to visit the past or future. We can observe something of the Past, not because we can be there to experience it, but because light from events before take time to travel distances, thus events further away tend to be somewhat older than our current moment. However, this does not mean that the Now-verse cannot function, because at each point of its journey, light never leaves the Present. It merely conducts an element of Change toward us.

Relativistic effects still occur, because each point in Space/Time is affected, so that Change at one point in the universe is not necessarily the same as another, so our intrepid astronaut, with a sifficiently powerful starship, realy could rocket his way across the heavens, ageing at a much slower rate than us. If Planck Time (10x-34 seconds) is the smallest discreet value of Change then Change occurs at a frightening rate, thus we cannot directly observe it, so we see events meging into one another fluidly rather than a sort of weird stop-frame movie that we actually exist in. However, Space/Time is relative, not absolute, so that Change here is never the same as Change elsewhere, other than it can only happen 'Now', where-ever you happenn to be. Time is an illusion generated by our experience of Change, which is generated by the same processes that construct our observable Space/Time.

The Big Question
I've made my statement, so now I leave it to the forum members to answer the Big Question raised by this thread or indeed any other aspect of Time in science or science fiction. What do you think?

Edited by caldrail - 27 May 2014 at 15:36
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 01:30
Quite a post caldrail- an epic. It probably took some time to compose. Then again, er, maybe not.

Let me see if I have this straight. Quantum fluctuations pop matter in and out of "existence", and with each iteration, change occurs. Because this happens, we perceive this as time, which is actually a bit of an illusion. There is no time, but a gradation of change, that seems to move in a direction, perhaps in a similar way to flash cards that give the illusion of motion.

But a question: how do these quantum bits "know" how to change in certain directions, ones that, say, advance age, or decay old kitchen scraps, etc?

Or have I missed the point here?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 03:58
Firstly, "Time is the Essence", of what? I've never really understood that phrase.
 
Secondly, do I understand you to say that time is linear? That it is single dimensional?
 
But isn't time relative? And how do we prove time? It's a man made invention to describe something that is completely intangible.
 
Time is a concept, and means different things to different people and animals. To a turtle which normally lives to be over a hundred years old, a year is but the blink of an eye, meanwhile to a mouse, which has a life span max of about two years, one year is half of its life.
 
But it is a useful tool to put things into perspective, like, "I'll mow the lawn tomorrow".Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 09:08
You guys have lawns in Tasmania????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 10:49
Quote But a question: how do these quantum bits "know" how to change in certain directions, ones that, say, advance age, or decay old kitchen scraps, etc?

The decay of kitchen scraps is a biological process, not a quantum change. The advance of age is caused mostly because we evolved to. Human beings are only really supposed to survive to around forty years of age or so, so our DNA only contains instructions to replicate so many times.

But the question of how our quantum 'bits' know how to act is a difficult one to answer. Is it simply because of the structure of the universe and various influences acting within it? Or is it because there's some kind of analogue algorithmn  guiding their behaviour? I don't know if anyone, scientist or ignoramuis, has an answer for that.

Quote Or have I missed the point here?

A little bit. Activity on the quantum scale is incredibly small.

Quote
Firstly, "Time is the Essence", of what? I've never really understood that phrase.

Strictly speaking it means that Time is vital to the objective above all other factors. I paraphrased it because my own theory of Time links it to quantum process that permeate the universe.
 
Quote Secondly, do I understand you to say that time is linear? That it is single dimensional?

No. The idea that Time is linear is as old as realising day follows night. The idea that Time is a single dimension, or vector, that flows from start to end is as old as the desire to create some means of measuring it.

Time does not actually exist in my theory, it's an illusion created by our experience of Change, and therefore Time has no dimension whatsoever. There is only one moment of existence, Now, and there cannot be anything else, because the quantum state of everything in the universe is only valid while it exists between changes. As to whether the Change is exactly the same quantity in all things I can't say - I don't know enough about Quantum Mechanics to answer that - but the rate of Change varies according to conditions within the universe, partoicularly Relativity.
 
Quote But isn't time relative? And how do we prove time? It's a man made invention to describe something that is completely intangible.

Yes, Time is relative, varying especially with velocity and gravity. Something moving faster experiences slower Time, or moving in higher gravity experiences slower Time, but of course, these experiences are relative to the observer, so even in a starship blasting across the galaxy at 90% of light speed and incurring significant Time dilation, the astronaut is unaware of it unless he looks out the window. He still, ages three score years and ten on average, only his years are now longer than the people he left behind on slow old Earth.
 
Quote Time is a concept, and means different things to different people and animals. To a turtle which normally lives to be over a hundred years old, a year is but the blink of an eye, meanwhile to a mouse, which has a life span max of about two years, one year is half of its life.

yep. I pretty much agree with that.

Quote You guys have lawns in Tasmania????

As I'm sure Toyomotor will confirm, they also have computiors, the internet, and electricity to work them. I doubt lawns are a problem :D


Edited by caldrail - 28 May 2014 at 10:52
http://www.unrv.com/forum/blog/31-caldrails-blog/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 13:04
Originally posted by Voltage Voltage wrote:

You guys have lawns in Tasmania????
 
Listen smart arse, not only do we have lawns, but we also have electric or motorised Lawn Mowers.Wink
 
We even have games like Lawn Bowls.
 
Unlike Sud Africa, we have soil, not dirt to plant our stuff in. (Or is it to stuff our plant in?)
 
WHO WON THE CRICKET??? Handshake
 
Caldrail wrote:
Quote As I'm sure Toyomotor will confirm, they also have computers, the internet, and electricity to work them. I doubt lawns are a problem :D
 
As long as we don't forget to refuel the sheep.Wink


Edited by toyomotor - 28 May 2014 at 13:25
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 13:36
Originally posted by Voltage Voltage wrote:

You guys have lawns in Tasmania????
 
 
People who live in grass houses shouldn't play with matches.Moon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 13:52
Caldrail wrote:
Quote No. The idea that Time is linear is as old as realising day follows night. The idea that Time is a single dimension, or vector, that flows from start to end is as old as the desire to create some means of measuring it.
 
a. How do you prove that day follows night, rather than night follows day?
 
b. If time is nondimensional, then it doesn't exist, except in our minds.
 
c. From Wiki
Quote Until Einstein's profound reinterpretation of the physical concepts associated with time and space, time was considered to be the same everywhere in the universe, with all observers measuring the same time interval for any event.[60] Non-relativistic classical mechanics is based on this Newtonian idea of time.
 
d. But of course this isn't true. In Ethiopia, for example, a day is divided into two six hour periods, and
Quote Firstly, while most countries adopted the Gregorian calendar some time ago, Ethiopia continues to use the Julian calendar. This means that Ethiopia is seven years and eight months ‘behind’ the majority of the world. Therefore, the country celebrated its new millennium on 12th September 2007, their new year’s day. Under this system there are thirteen months in a calendar year, 12 of 30 days each, usually starting on September 11, and one month of 5 or 6 days.
 
e. So, therefore, time is relative to the belief system of the individual.
 
Incidentally, time is injurious to your health, running hither and yon to meet timetables etc causes stress which causes heart attacks. That's why people in less developed countries often live longer, or is that another aspect of the concept of time. 
 


Edited by toyomotor - 28 May 2014 at 13:57
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Voltage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 16:18
You guys play that post-imperial game from Britain???

Well do not worry I abstain from wasting time on such an old-fashioned and imperialistic game. (as you may have guessed I am not a very fast runner)

As I live in Cape Town I do know what grass is . By the way we have are own plant kingdom here, and do not like the "indigenous species" namely the Australian ones. One of my friends spends most of his time cutting them down.

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Voltage:
Cutting down trees?
 
Mate can you contact the Australian Greens Political Party, if you tell them that someone has cut a tree down, all the dole bludgers will descend on SA like a plague of locusts to protest.
 
In doing so, we will get rid of them, as they do nothing but oppose progress and cost honest working people their jobs.
 
Btw, you'll need to pay them somehow, as they've never worked for a living, ever!
 
You know what the dole is, don't you?
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 May 2014 at 17:46
It's a fine thread. But honestly I'm no longer interested in the more exotic definitions. Or even those who hold altruistic motivations for my concern in so far as how am I spending my time.

Life makes you hard.


No matter what speed of time we travel through and beyond it. Once 'upon a time' pun intended; I would have found the scientific through the metaphysical-theological and philosophical views-on time important. That like time has faded.


time


/tīm/


noun

noun: time; plural noun: times



1.


the indefinite continued progress of existence and events in the past, present, and future regarded as a whole.
"travel through space and time"


So the above satisfies.


As for those on the dole? Their appreciation of time is far different than mine. Time just flies by as your waiting for that next welfare check. Or it doesn't. You can afford that luxury if your on the dole.


Edited by Arlington - 28 May 2014 at 17:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 07:51
 
Mate, I was giving the other old blokes a bit of a stir.
 
I reckon there's very few of us who could discuss the OP intelligently anyway, perhaps that was the intent.
 
As for quantum mathematics, I was absent from school that day.Wink
 
Caldrail: Mate, you really do need to get out more.


Edited by toyomotor - 29 May 2014 at 07:56
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Arlington Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 08:13
''As for quantum mathematics, I was absent from school that day.Wink''

Indeed. Calculus and trig is where I topped out at in uni. And that's only because I was taking a lot of surveying courses to get a Geography minor.








best.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote caldrail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 10:37
Quote a. How do you prove that day follows night, rather than night follows day?

It's a cycle. Which comes first is irrelevant, aklthough in theory the knowledge that the Sun must have ignited at some point rather confirms night came fiirst, except that the Earth resulted from the Sun's ignition and the shockwave afecting an accretion disc, therefore it can be argued that day came first. My argument is that this is a ridiculous philosophical point.
 
Quote b. If time is nondimensional, then it doesn't exist, except in our minds.

The idea that Time is an enviroment through which we travel is as old as science. It's a natural conclusion and a difficult concept to depart from, sionce we grow up with the idea and that we are educated in the principle from day one. However, there are considerable difficulties in properly defining a 'Time' dimension(s) that no physicist has resolved satisfactorily. My argument, and the basis for my own theory, is that dimenasional Time is an obselete concept. Each individual quantum process creates its own Time in order to allow Change. Therefore we're not moving through a Time dimension, but experiencing Time that occurs because of 'movement'.

That's a difficult concept for some, I understand that, but then so much of Quantum Mechanics is seriously weird.
 
Quote d. But of course this isn't true. In Ethiopia, for example, a day is divided into two six hour periods, and...

The units we use to measure Time, or the conventions we establish for the measurement, are of no consequence and do not relate to what Time actually is. There's every difference between a physical property and its effects compared to the human need to categoprise and measure.
 
Quote e. So, therefore, time is relative to the belief system of the individual.

Only in terms of perception, observation, and measurement.
 
Quote Incidentally, time is injurious to your health, running hither and yon to meet timetables etc causes stress which causes heart attacks. That's why people in less developed countries often live longer, or is that another aspect of the concept of time.

I have just experienced a polarised mass quantum shift from my seat to the floor induced by uncontrollable macro oscillations of laughter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 12:16
Caldrail:
Hidden away deep in my lengthy post is an undercurrent of sarcasm and devilment.
 
As I said, I missed school the day they had Quantum Physics lessons, so I can't possibly debate the OP with you.
 
I must have been absent also on the day we had Philosophy Lessons, so I can't debate you on this level either.
 
I can only imagine that you penned your essay in a sense of superiority over we lesser beings, because you know that we mere mortals wouldn't be able to refute your claims.
 
There is a possibility, imho, that the entire OP is b/s, I don't know, nor can I be bothered to research your claims.
 
Anyway, must go, time is on the move.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Northman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 May 2014 at 15:42
Following this thread intensively - yet there is still nothing that can convince me that we even know a fraction about this place and its physics. Be it time, be it light, be it the infinity of the universe, be it the extra dimensions scientists and thinkers must invent, even to begin thinking beyond the "accepted" borders of today's physics. 
To settle with an explanation of a curbed universe, as some do, to explain infinity, is a dead end. Curbed entities do have limits as well.

How much of our knowledge is related to or based on the speed of light?  What if the speed, or should I say hesitations of light was different?  So much would be so different, that we probably would perceive things differently...  
I read articles by Stephen Hawking about this years back, and he got me thinking - and my head spinning...   Smile

Just on a rant here - don't mind me...



Edited by Northman - 29 May 2014 at 15:43
   
   If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.    (Albert Einstein)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 May 2014 at 04:35
Originally posted by Northman Northman wrote:

Following this thread intensively - yet there is still nothing that can convince me that we even know a fraction about this place and its physics. Be it time, be it light, be it the infinity of the universe, be it the extra dimensions scientists and thinkers must invent, even to begin thinking beyond the "accepted" borders of today's physics. 
To settle with an explanation of a curbed universe, as some do, to explain infinity, is a dead end. Curbed entities do have limits as well.

How much of our knowledge is related to or based on the speed of light?  What if the speed, or should I say hesitations of light was different?  So much would be so different, that we probably would perceive things differently...  
I read articles by Stephen Hawking about this years back, and he got me thinking - and my head spinning...   Smile

Just on a rant here - don't mind me...

 
I totally agree with you North, I think.Wink
 
 
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
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