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Timur's scholars?

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    Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 12:53
Some says, Amir Timur might be cruel in the battlefield but he made Semerkand center of science during his time. He took many scholars around the world to Semerkand.

Who were these scholars, where were they coming, what were they studying? Geek

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Zagros View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 13:18
Yes, "took" being the operative word.  Timurleng has memoirs where he lays out his twisted thinking, not sure if there's an English translation.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2011 at 18:47
Timur the Mongol as "patron of the arts" leaves much to be desired as for the defintion of "science" well that's rather open to "give-and-take".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rugila Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2011 at 08:53

Timur-leng was very zealous in the matters of spirituality and science, though he was very cruel but he cared very much for religious masters and also for scientists, one of his sons became the father of astronomy, and in last century one of bright stars was called after him as Ulugbek. Wherever he go he collected scientists and gifted masters for example as I know one of them was the first communist in human history same as persian Mazdak the so called prophet Sheyh Bedreddin Semavi (damn him).

One big mistake Timur-leng did is his negligence of the nice tombstone of great islamic mystic Halladji Mansur, though it was written on tombstone that whoever will disturb the tomb of great master if he is the king he will die and if they are of common people then the great war will erupt. Timur-leng neglected this written warning and robbed that stone and delivered to Samarkand and shortly after that he suddenly misteriously dies and that nice tombstone was put onto his grave. In 1941 another stupid russian scientists despite the written curse on tombstone dared to open and remove that marble stone from the Timur-leng’s  grave and at that same time the second world war started the Germanic armies of Hitler’s invaded Russia.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2011 at 14:30
"Cruelty" is a ridiculous term when assessed in a historical perspective and about the only valid conclusion possible once that terminology is bandied about is a simple one: the "cruel" chap was apparently quite sucessful in his enterprise, hence all of the backbiting chatter.
 
As for "neglecting" tombstones and the possible consequences of such neglect with respect to memori morti...please. After Caliph Al-Muqtadir  sliced-and-diced Mansur Al-Hallaj with no noticeable immediate consequences, it would be quite a stretch to invoke any rather remote vengeance on Timur for his disregard of those troublesome residents of Baghdad--alive or dead. Anyway...the landscape is littered with tombs of Sufi mystics so one may pick-and-choose from all the legendary detritus.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zagros Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2011 at 15:26
No it's not.  Cruelty is cruelty always has been always will be, it isn't a subjective thing.  Human nature is human nature in cruelty and kindness and has not changed since we came to be.   We didn't suddenly develop the instincts and emotions for compassion in the modern age.  Your assessment is a historiographical anachronism.
 
There are many poems from a multitude of poets from that region and that period celebrating/demanding human dignity and rights in terms that would be no different than what you might hear a priest utter today.
 
The person being cruel knows he is being cruel as did Timurleng if his own attestations are anything to go by.  He was cruel for a calculated purpose.
"There was glory in pissing, Corabb decided as he watched the stream curve out and make that familiar but unique sound as it hit the ground." So true.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2011 at 19:30
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

No it's not.  Cruelty is cruelty always has been always will be, it isn't a subjective thing. 
 
Yes. But whether specific acts of cruelty are bad or whether they are justifiable are subjective assessments. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Nov 2011 at 23:46
Originally posted by Zagros Zagros wrote:

No it's not.  Cruelty is cruelty always has been always will be, it isn't a subjective thing.  Human nature is human nature in cruelty and kindness and has not changed since we came to be.   We didn't suddenly develop the instincts and emotions for compassion in the modern age.  Your assessment is a historiographical anachronism.
 
There are many poems from a multitude of poets from that region and that period celebrating/demanding human dignity and rights in terms that would be no different than what you might hear a priest utter today.
 
The person being cruel knows he is being cruel as did Timurleng if his own attestations are anything to go by.  He was cruel for a calculated purpose.


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You don't need to ask historians to know if a ruler was cruel or not. It is enough to know its crimes.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Nov 2011 at 03:11
Ah...the bourgeoisie once again foregoing all sense in order to sentimentalize over sensibilities. Soon we shall have perorations on the meanderings of Susan Sonntag as she regards the pains of others.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote erkut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Nov 2011 at 08:08
Originally posted by Rugila Rugila wrote:

Wherever he go he collected scientists and gifted masters for example as I know one of them was the first communist in human history same as persian Mazdak the so called prophet Sheyh Bedreddin Semavi (damn him).

No actually, Timur wanted to took him, but Bedrettin did not followed him, first he gone to Sultaniye to meet his sheikh Ahlati (according to "Menakıbname"), later he gone back to Cairo then Edirne become Kazasker of Musa Celebi, later he executed by Mehmet Celebi.

Timur also ask İbn Khaldun to came whith him back to Semerkand, but Khaldun gone back to Cairo.

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