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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Nov 2009 at 21:17
One can also mention that the inspiration to Rudolph Dirks for his Katzenjammer Kids was the book about Max und Moritz, created by german writer Wilhelm Busch.
Rudolph Dirks himself was an immigrant from Germany.

One can add that the two mishiefs Max and Moritz met a gruesome and violent end.


Edited by Carcharodon - 18 Nov 2009 at 21:24
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Nov 2009 at 21:01
I was surprised no one made note of 19 November in History...here are some significant events:
 
1600: Charles Stuart, the last English king born in Scotland.
1863: Lincoln's delivers a small homily at Gettysburg.
1903: Carrie Nation enters the Senate Chamber with a hatchet.
1906: London selected as the site for 1908 Olympics--deja vu guys.
1919: the US Senate rejects Wilson's Versailles Treaty
1959: The Edsel is sent to the chop-shop.
1977: Anwar Sadar flies to Jerusalem.
 
After compiling the above, I am no longer surprised...


Edited by drgonzaga - 20 Nov 2009 at 12:44
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2009 at 03:09
Thanks for covering for me today doctor. I was not able to add my daily tidbits. Not due to a lack of interesting anniversaries in history but one of those things that I forgot to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2009 at 04:34
19 November 1493, Cristobal Colon discovers the island of Boriken (Borinquen), later named San Juan Bautista, later re-named Puerto Rico. None of the later colonizers bothered to discover what the 'Taino' name for the island meant, but the Caribe term for Puerto Rico was Obao Moin, allegedly meaning "Blood Island" (if one can trust a record jacket for an album of the same name by 'Haciendo Punto en otro Son').
Phong trần mài một lưỡi gươm, Những loài giá áo túi cơm sá gì
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2009 at 15:03
November 20

Braveheart made this figure popular. In 1272 Edward I (Longshanks) was proclaimed King of England.

1789
New Jersey is 1st state to ratify Bill of Rights

1815
Russia, Prussia, Austria & England signs on as the Great Alliance


1866
Pierre Lalemont patents rotary crank bicycle

1910 Revolution broke out in Mexico, led by Francisco I Madero

1917
Ukrainian Republic declared

1942
Hitler names fieldmarshal Erich von Manstein commanding officer

1943 US forces land on Tarawa & Makin Atoll in Gilbert Island (Btw, the History channel has WWII in HD on TV)

1945
24 Nazi leaders put on trial at Nuremberg, Germany

1969
Pele scores his 1,000th soccer goal

1977
Egyptian Pres Sadat became 1st Arab leader to address Israeli Knesset

1981 Anatoly Karpov, USSR retains world chess championship







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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2009 at 15:05
Aha! I knew we had a known "terrorist" in our midst! With a sympathy for notorius flesh-eaters as well....now there are far better reasons to recall Oubao Moin rather than the speculative since such is the title of a poem by Juan Antonio Corretjer later put to music by Roy Brown. A taste of the "revolutionary":
 
 
However, let us not get into the World Guazabara Federation, shall we? As for Columbus and the island to which he gave the name San Juan Bautista, well since he never again set foot on it, we can surmise that like the name "Juana" for Cuba, it just did not stick--well at least not with Juan Ponce de Leon, who upon his return to the island [he had been with Columbus in 1493] of Borinquen in 1508, established the first European settlement, Caparra, on an expansive bay given the name "puerto rico" or rich harbor. Caparra was later moved to a more congenial site, and later a new town would arise after 1509. Unlike all the Internet squibs, the name of the town was not confused for the land, nor did the town take the name of the island! The name given the bay by Ponce de Leon (el puerto rico) through customary usage was applied to the island but the town of San Juan never gave its name to the island since when established in 1521, its titulary was already villa de San Juan Bautista. Now "title" to the island formed part of the famous law suit undertaken by Diego Colon after the death of his father in 1506...by the way the San Juan from whom the island's original name derives is, of course, St. John the Baptist [as seen from the coat of arms granted the island in 1512 by King Fernando]--
 
 
--but as to how Puerto Rico (or Porto Rico) finally "stuck" as a monnicker for the island, well your guess is as good as mine. However, for the venturesome nationalist here's a great spot:
 
 
 
Now on to the business of what happened of note on 20 November--
 
First let us dismiss the gloomy: In 1541 John Calvin more or less becomes the "dictator" of Geneva (Switzerland) and puts on display an assault against the arts and free thought that makes any pope of Rome appear pikers in the persecution department! Today, Calvin would be known as a right-wing extremists with a propensity for violence (recall the fate of Servetus)...
 
Now, it was also on this day in 1961 that the Russian Orthodox Church "joined" the World Council of Churches (WCC) based in Geneva [Calvin would have been appalled]...by 2007 Orthodoxy was no longer amused and viewed the organization as the "hand of the devil". Guess all the talk about fighting "Global warming" as a religious issue was the last straw.
 
End of doom and gloom!
 
Now, today is el Dia de la Revolucion...in 1910 Francisco I. Madero declares against the regime of Porfirio Diaz.
 
Happy anniversary Liz and Phil: in 1947, H. R. H. Elizabeth Windsor marries Lt. Philip Mountbatten, recently created Marquis of Milford Haven. She will soon develop a reputation as "mum". while he will move on to be king of the blooper!
 
Cabaret opens on Broadway and contrary to what others may claim, the "star" of the production is Joel Grey no matter the subsequent botch job of a film. None mentioned then that Liza looked more like a drag version of her mother, Judy Garland, than any common strumpet of the Weimar Republic.
 
While speaking of how filmdom often murders art, today in 1980 United Artists withdraws Heaven's Gate from theaters, under the excuse of re-editing. After spending 44 million dollars on the vanity of the likes of Kevin Costner, the wolves of Hollywood really begin to howl. Costner's been running ever since then. By the way, no amount of re-editing could rescue that turkey!
 
We've already mentioned the Queen, and today in 1992 also caps the chart of her annus terribilis: Windsor Castle catches fire--could Diana the Slut of Wales be behind it? [this descriptive ought to set some aflame on these boards].
 
Notable birthdays:
 
1858: Selma Lagerloff
1889: E. P. Hubble
1900: Chester Gould
1908: Alistair Cooke
1917: Robert KKK Byrd
1956: Mary Cathleen Collins, better known as a "10" or Bo Derek--ok, I'm just waxing nostalgic and reliving those two weeks in Seville during the '80s.


Edited by drgonzaga - 20 Nov 2009 at 15:07
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Nov 2009 at 21:47
Unless i missed them already being posted, a few little other tidbits i have looked up.

284 - Diocletian is chosen as the Roman emperor.

762 - A Shi rebellion during the Tang dynasty and with the help of the Huihe tribe, recaptures Luoyang from rebel forces

1194 - Emperor Henry VI conquers Palermo

1700 - Battle of Narva where King Charles XII of Sweden defeats the army of Tsar Peter the Great

1820 - An 80 ton sperm whale attacks the Essex in the Pacific Ocean which partly inspires Herman Melville's novel "Moby Dick"


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 04:22
Oh no not you too Panther!?! The Battle of Narva was only fought on 20 November if you were using the Swedish transitional calendar...which date would be 30 November 1700 by the Gregorian Calendar. We've tried to cure Carch of this habit and now you come along and encourage him in his ways....bad boy. 
Now as for celebrating any action by that bastard Henry VI...fie on you! Besides his treachery in the Richard I caper, Henry was one cruel dog; however, despite Otto of Freisig there was no "conquering" at Palermo since Tancred had been dead for some time before Henry came ashore and Henry met little opposition on the island (as different from the mainland) and actually "entered" rather than "conquered" the city.

Edited by drgonzaga - 21 Nov 2009 at 14:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 06:16
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Oh no not you too Panther!?! The Battle of Narva was only fought on 20 November if you were using the Swedish transitional calendar...which date would be 30 November 1700 by the Gregorian Calendar. We've tried to cure Carch of this habit and now you come along and encourage him in his ways....bad boy. 
Now as for celebrating any action by that bastard Henry VI...fie on you! Besides his treachery in the Richard I caper, Henry was onse cruel dog; however, despite Otto of Freisig there was no "conquering" ar Palermo since Tancred had been dead for some time before Henry came ashore and Henry met little opposition on the island (as different from the mainland) and actually "entered" rather than "conquered" the city.


Obvious lesson for the day: Never wiki when you can Google - DUH! Ouch


Edited by Panther - 21 Nov 2009 at 06:19
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Nov 2009 at 14:53
Today, 21 November 2009 is the 44th anniversary of one of the bleakest dates in musicology: the Nordic menace that had released blights such as ABBA, today in 1965 unleashed Bjork (Gudmundsdottir) from the darkest pits of the Mountain King's island realm...perhaps Iceland imploded as penance for this dastardly act.
 
Oh, well, after Milli Vanilli and Wham perhaps teeny boppers deserve all the misery they try to pass off as musical tastes.
 
Besides, today is a hallowed date in the Annals of Curmudgeondry: Francois Marie Arouet, aka Voltaire was born on this date in 1694.
 
And so as to balance the books, on this day in 1916, Franz Joseph I (and last) of Austria-Hungary dies at Schonbrunn Palace in Vienna at age 86. His passing signifies the true end of the 19th century and if you've ever traveled through the Danube valley you'll start to wonder why you find his picture on the walls of every watering hole from Prague to Budapest!
 
Now to the most blatant anomaly in the Annals of American democracy. Today in 1906, "Teddy" Roosevelt pledges citizenship for "Puerto Rican people". Has anyone visited the Puerto Rican State Department lately? See: Foraker Act of 1900, the Jones-Shafroth Act of 1917, PL 81-600 (3 July 1950), and the final indignity of United States v Sanchez, 992 F.2d 1143 (11th Cir. 1993).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 16:26
Today is one othose silly days in History, whose events were mercifully forgotten rather quickly:
 
In Music--
1831: The opera Robert, le Diable premieres in Paris
1851: The opera La Perle du Brasil premieres in Paris
1898: The opera Iris premieres in Rome
1928: First public performance of Ravel's Bolero, where else but Paris
1963: The Beatles premiere their second album: With the Beatles...quick name a cut!
1967: The BBC catches on and bans "I am the Walrus".
1968: The Beatles fight back and issue their only double album: The Beatles.
 
In Doom and Gloom--
1842: Mt. St. Helen erupts
1906: SOS standardized as official distress signal.
1924: England orders Egypt out of the Sudan...another major blunder of imperialism.
1967: Silver sells for $2.17 an ounce...bye-bye silver certificates and the dollar!
1967: The UN orders Israel to give back "occupied lands"...now that's a bit of black humor.
1989: Venus, Mars, Uranus, Neptune, Saturn, and the Moon are in conjunction. Nothing happens!
1990: Margaret Thatcher resigns...could it be a delayed result of the above?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 19:22
You forgot drgonzaga too include in the doom and gloom section that Kennedy was shot on this day.

Edited by Panther - 22 Nov 2009 at 19:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 20:27
Naw, if you note I did not include any births or deaths either? As matters stand now, the actual gloom was being forced to sit through a screening of Viva Las Vegas because the English version of Visconti's The Leopard was sold out!
 
Now here is a statement that will surely "bring down the house": the assassination of Kennedy was as significant politically as that of William McKinley! It is a historical footnote, nothing more.
 
The "presidency" itself was an unmitigated disaster.


Edited by drgonzaga - 22 Nov 2009 at 20:29
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 20:29
Yes, Nov 22 1963 is the day that JFK was shot. Where were you. I was eating baby food.

With the Beatles...quick name a cut!


 dr.G - Please mister postman don't bother me you little child. Thought you really got a hold on me?  Hold me tight not a second time. Devil in her heart. It won't be long till there was you. I wanna be your man. Money (that's what I want). All I've got to do.

ps - All my loving!


Edited by Seko - 22 Nov 2009 at 20:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 21:31
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Naw, if you note I did not include any births or deaths either? As matters stand now, the actual gloom was being forced to sit through a screening of Viva Las Vegas because the English version of Visconti's The Leopard was sold out!
 
Now here is a statement that will surely "bring down the house": the assassination of Kennedy was as significant politically as that of William McKinley! It is a historical footnote, nothing more.
 


Say no more.

Quote
The "presidency" itself was an unmitigated disaster.


Yup! That has been my position too since before Seymour Hersh's book came out in the late 90's.


Edited by Panther - 22 Nov 2009 at 21:31
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 21:41
Originally posted by Seko Seko wrote:

Yes, Nov 22 1963 is the day that JFK was shot. Where were you. I was eating baby food.


Me? Oh... I was just floating around, of no consequence to my parents for another 9 1/2 years...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 10:12
I was on my way home from the office (took a couple of hours in those days) and when I got there my wife announced that the office (Sunday Telegraph) had phoned to say Kennedy had been shot. I of course didn't believe her, but a quick call had me hiring a car early Saturday before the trains ran back to London to start putting together the pictorial obit.

Edited by gcle2003 - 23 Nov 2009 at 10:12
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Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 18:04
Since everyone seems fascinated with the morbid let's recall 23 November in History from the perspective of the obits.
 
1814: Elbridge Gerry, yes, that Gerry, of gerrymander fame. Whose presence here has little to do with his political creativity but as warning on Internet misinformation! Not to beat up on Wiki, but...it claims he was the first vice-president not to run for the presidency, which--naturally--is wrong. Besides misinterpreting the electoral process at the dawn of the Republic, Aaron Burr never "ran" for the presidency once his term as vice-president expired in 1805. Likewise, a swift kick to Scopes (Anyday in History), which has him kicking the bucket in 1914! Perhaps the only reason Gerry never "ran" for the presidency was that he died in that office. It was unlucky to be a vice-president under Madison since the previous occupant, George Clinton, had also "died" in office in 1812.
 
Back to the funeral march:
 
1910: Hawley Crippen, English murderer hanged today. Why should we remember? He was caught aboard the SS Montrose as a result of the first use of the "wireless" by English police!
 
1976: Andres Malraux, French politician and philistine...he liked Americans, specially Kennedies. His wit and wisdom was as tasteful as over-baked merengue.
 
1979: Merle Oberon, her beauty ensured that no one ever noticed that neither Leslie Howard nor Lawrence Olivier could act worth a damn!
 
1990: Baudillo Jose Diaz Seijas, baseball player known as "Bo" Diaz and one of only 11 players to hit a Sayonara Slam (for the Phillies against the Mets, 1983). As a catcher he holds another MLB record: throwing out the same player four separate times in the same game during a base stealing attempt! Unfortunately, Bo did not prove as adept at catching "satellite" dishes. He was crushed to death by one at his home in Caracas!
 
1990: Roald Dahl of Willie Wonka fame and philandering ex-husband of actress Patricia Neal.
 
1991: Freddy Mercury, the glitz and glamour behind Queen--eat your heart out Elton!
 
Now, if you want to stump your friends here are two tidbits associated with today:
 
London, 23 November 1963: The first television episode of Doctor Who is broadcast by the BBC.
 
 
Nashville, 23 November 1976: Jerry Lee Lewis is arrested drunk and packing a pistol in front of Graceland!
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Nov 2009 at 06:27
Boy, 24 November is quite a memorable time for us Saggitarians:
 
Birthdays:
 
1632: Benedicto de Spinoza
1713: Junipero Serra
1784: Zachary Taylor
1864: Henri de Toulouse-Lautrec
1868: Scott Joplin
1908: Libertad Lamarque [Evita's bete noire]
1925: William F. Buckley, Jr. [a god walked among men at Yale!]
1946: Ted Bundy...OK there has to be a bad apple among all of these savories.
 
But the day was not so fortunate for some...these kicked the bucket.
 
1572: John Knox...he of the "conspiracy of pettycoats"
1962: James J. Kilroy...he of "was here" fame.
1963: Lee Harvey Oswald
1980: George Raft...maybe he would have made a better president than his acting buddy Ron.
 
Biggy Events:
 
166 BC: The Maccabees rise up against the Seleucids
1642: Abel Janzoon Tasman "finds" Tasmania
1859: Charles Darwin publishes On the Origin of Species and on this Sesquicentennial there are millions who have yet to read the book but claim they know what's in it!
1871: The National Rifle Association is organized in New York City!
1874: J. Glidden patents barbed wire...best way to keep the little doggies from gettin' along.
1949: Britain nationalizes Iron and Steel production...when Truman tries it a little while later the Supreme Court puts a damper on this bit of governance.
1954: The first "presidential" plane--well Ike had to get to Augusta for golf somehow!
1963: First televised murder, Ruby shoots Oswald but a trial will take years!
1989: The Communist Party of Czechoslovakia "resigns" the government. The Communist Party of the DDR didn't take the hint until 3 December 1989.
2009: Drgonzaga asserts that Richard Pipes writes bunkum!
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 24 Nov 2009 at 06:30
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 06:02
On the 25th of November:

1177 - Baldwin IV of Jerusalem defeats Salah-ad Din at Montsigard  (also mentioned in Kingdom of Heaven for anyone that has seen it) 

1492 - The unfortunate siege of Granada, and the culmination of religious cleansing begins in what is now known as "united" Spain. 

1758 - The British Empire captured Fort Duquesne (Pittsburth - stems from Fort Pitt, built nearby) in the French and Indian Wars. 

1783 - The British Empire evacuates New York, New York their last military position, after the end of the Revolutionary War.

1841 - The former slaves who seized the slaving vessel Amistad in 1839 were freed by the Supreme court. Defended by the former President John Quincy Adams (II ;)... the son of John Adams our 2nd President... who had a infamous court appearance successfully defending the soldiers from the Boston "massacre" decades earlier. 

1918 - With the break up of the Austro-Hungarian Empire - Vojvodina joins the Kingdom of Serbia, and eventually part of the Kingdom of Yugoslavia following rebranding. 

1943 - National Day in Bosnia and Herzegovina 

1947 - The "Hollywood Ten" were blacklisted by Motion picture executives as the Red scare was raging and ole' Joe withdrew some savings to put up that old bomb-shelter he never used 

1947 - New Zealand gains self governance from the Crown through the Statute of Westminster 

1950 - The People's Republic of China joins in the Korean War by sending forces to the Yalu River

1958 - Sudan gains autonomy as part of the "French community"

1986 - The Iran Contra scandal broke

1998 - Jiang Zemin became the first Chinese head of state to visit Japan post-WWII

1999- The infamous Elian Gonzales was rescued off the coast of Florida

2002 - The Department of Homeland Defense was signed into law by another the 2nd, Bush Jr to be precise (with the blessing of the Sith lord aka Darth Cheney Embarrassed)


Not historical but I'll throw it in anyway - the 25th is the first day of Hajj in 2009




Edited by es_bih - 25 Nov 2009 at 06:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 06:30
Famous Births:

1454 - Catherine Coronaro - Queen of Cyprus

1577 - Piet Hein - Dutch naval commander and folk hero 

1703 - Jean-Francois Seguier - French astronomer and botanist

1835 - Andrew Carnegie - industrialist and philanthropist 

1843 - Henry Ware Elliot - industrialist and father of T.S. Elliot

1844 - Karl Benz - inventor and founder of a long standing tradition of fine German engineering 
 
1874 - Joe Gans - American Boxer


1881 - Pope John XXIII

1914 - Joe DiMaggio - baseball player, and legend of the American past-time

1915 - Augusto Pinochet - Chilean dictator 

1960 - John Kennedy Jr. (son of former President, John F Kennedy)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 14:44
Please note that the above is little but blatant opinion and rife with bias as well as stubborn refusal to take note of today's most important event:
 
1940: Drgonzaga is born--my word he made a handsome baby!
 
Now on to editorial review:
 
The expulsion of the Moriscos does not take place with the capture of Granada in 1492--only the members of the ruling dynasty were packed off to Morocco--so this bit about "ethnic cleansing" is a gratuitous allusion to present day hobbies. By the way, the Moriscos were not finally expelled from Granada, Murcia and Valencia until 1609 despite the earlier rebellion of 1569-70 known as the Alpujarras Uprising. Gotcha! Es_bih and the reasons is a simple one, there was no such thing as Spain in 1492.  The story between 1499-1609 is far more intricate...
 
And to another footnote...technically, there was no such thing as a "British Empire" in 1758, much less in 1783. After all, you need an "emperor" (or empress for that matter)  to have an empire, and such does not take place until Dizzie gives Vicky an imperial crown in 1876-77. That it pertained to India is an interesting footnote:
 
 
Shall we speak of the Indian Empire and its policies in Africa at the close of the 19th century?Confused
 
Now as for the "whitewashing" of the Vojvodina annexation...
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Seko- Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 14:53
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
1940: Drgonzaga is born--my word he made a handsome baby!
 


God give us strength. The world has never been the same since.

HAPPY BIRHDAY drG! 

I really enjoy your posts. Thank you for your participation and administration of this thread and ...simply put...I'm a fan!

ps- I'll put up a post at the b-day thread as well.


Edited by Seko - 25 Nov 2009 at 14:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 16:02
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Shall we speak of the Indian Empire and its policies in Africa at the close of the 19th century?Confused
I've pointed out before that there really wasn't such a thing as the British Empire at any time let alone before Victoria assumed the title of Empress of India. It would however seem not unreasonable to refer to the British empire with a small 'e'. Still this is  one of my lost causes, and it's nice to see some support.
 
The question whether the Indian Empire had any African policies at the close of the 19th century is not an empty one, since it would have been theoretically possible, but factually I don't know enough about it to tell. I think for instance that the Indian Empire (aka the British Raj) had its own Burma policy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lirelou Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 16:08
Saw a presentation on Colombus last night on the history channel that referred to Isabel la Catolica as "Queen of Spain" and the Aztec Empire as in "Central America".  So much for the "history" channel.

But yes, I second Seko. Now, imagine a 14 piece Mariachi freshly recruited from la tierra de los Tapatios: "Estas son las mananitas que cantaba el rey David, en el dia de tu santo te las cantamos a ti... (etc.)" Que te cumples muchos mas!


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 17:22
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

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Shall we speak of the Indian Empire and its policies in Africa at the close of the 19th century?Confused
I've pointed out before that there really wasn't such a thing as the British Empire at any time let alone before Victoria assumed the title of Empress of India. It would however seem not unreasonable to refer to the British empire with a small 'e'. Still this is  one of my lost causes, and it's nice to see some support.
 
The question whether the Indian Empire had any African policies at the close of the 19th century is not an empty one, since it would have been theoretically possible, but factually I don't know enough about it to tell. I think for instance that the Indian Empire (aka the British Raj) had its own Burma policy.
 
Well, gcle [Good lord, that introductory declarative is becoming a trademark I must resist] just because windmills are not dragons does not necessarily mean we should drop the quest to challenge the "beast"--take it from this particular Knight of the Woeful Countenance. Certainly Victoria, Regina et Imperatrix, had her own views with regard to responsible government in the Raj that was often at odds with her Parliamentary ministers. However as an avid reader of the journal Victorian Studies, the thematic in both instances ("Empire" and Victorian India), does have sound interpretational validity.
 
 
In fact, the subject does merit a thread all of its own on AE...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 18:35
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Please note that the above is little but blatant opinion and rife with bias as well as stubborn refusal to take note of today's most important event:
 
1940: Drgonzaga is born--my word he made a handsome baby!
 
Now on to editorial review:
 
The expulsion of the Moriscos does not take place with the capture of Granada in 1492--only the members of the ruling dynasty were packed off to Morocco--so this bit about "ethnic cleansing" is a gratuitous allusion to present day hobbies. By the way, the Moriscos were not finally expelled from Granada, Murcia and Valencia until 1609 despite the earlier rebellion of 1569-70 known as the Alpujarras Uprising. Gotcha! Es_bih and the reasons is a simple one, there was no such thing as Spain in 1492.  The story between 1499-1609 is far more intricate...
 
And to another footnote...technically, there was no such thing as a "British Empire" in 1758, much less in 1783. After all, you need an "emperor" (or empress for that matter)  to have an empire, and such does not take place until Dizzie gives Vicky an imperial crown in 1876-77. That it pertained to India is an interesting footnote:
 
 
Shall we speak of the Indian Empire and its policies in Africa at the close of the 19th century?Confused
 
Now as for the "whitewashing" of the Vojvodina annexation...
 
 

The religious cleansing occurred way before Granada, it culminated with the capture... the Moriscos (Christianized Spaniards were a very small minority by that time anyway, and that event is rather insignificant to me in the grand scheme of things). 
The south had a amount of Jews and Muslims, by the 1500s, there were virtually none... that is cleansing at its best... plus by 1500 there were plenty of Spanish Jews settling in the Ottoman Empire, and we have a most notable Hagaddah copy in the National Library of BiH, in Sarajevo via the Jewish community there that came from Spain at exactly the same time. 

The British Empire existed, after all, there was a Roman Empire way before we had any sort of Emperor, it is the basic principle of annexing territories and ruling over them as an "Empire."The colonies were not simple shires, nor had any real representation in the Parliament. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 18:38
To add, I see it as an empire in modern terms of the word, whether or not it was a titular empire is a different matter. There were plenty of Empires in the world that were not necessarily titular ones, and plenty of titular ones that were hardly an empire (the Byzantine one in the period 1350-1453 hardly constituted an empire).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 19:29
Es_bih in the "grand scheme of things" then it was your Almoravids that initiated "ethnic cleansing" in the Iberian peninsula! Yusuf ibn Tashfin certainly sent the Jews flying northward to Castille and Aragon, and the succeeding Almohads were hardly milder in their militance. Who insisted first on "conversion" is also rather easy to identify as well. Then there is this major difference: ethnic cleansing demands "genocide" and such never took place as policy or intent. Surnames tell the story far better than any misapplication of "terms" back into the historical past. By the way is not "apostasy" still a "capital offense" among radical "Islamicists"?
 
As for "empire" keep in mind that labels are as apt to confuse as to clarify. And that is the point. Juridically, there was no such thing as a "Spanish Empire" since the New World was more or less carved into separate political entities with varied administrative entities--and a great degree of local self-government. Here's a hint: Obedezco pero no cumplo!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 19:34
PS: And yes, "ethnic cleansing" took place long before Granada and it was undertaken under a fatwa readily waved by a certain Ibn Tashfin. Look into the Age of the Taifas in the Iberian peninsula so as to understand this interesting development--after all those local emirs were just too "Christian" in their behavior and had to be removed from power!
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