| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Today in History
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Today in History

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 13>
Author
es_bih View Drop Down
Council Member
Council Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 21:16
I've looked into it plenty hence my statement, you can generalize a few rulers south of Castile any way you want into a general and continued practice, but the fact remains, with the demise of the "Islamic" or whatever else misnomer you may insert, so did any sort of religious diversity. I wouldn't call it "ethnic" cleansing since the various localities such as Catalonia were never expelled. 

Religious cleansing in terms of a wide spread forced conversion movement (voluntary ones not included in that)... and of course the culmination in 1492 with the entire Jewish populace either being forcibly converted or expelled.

This isn't generalizing, just some hard numbers.

The Almoravids weren't sains that is for sure, but again it wasn't a continued policy. 

I'll grant that Castile in the 1200s enjoyed a bit more tolerance than it did in the 1500s... Or even the 1000s as the Crusaders really were the ones to change the pace of Iberian politics. 

The Alfonos for the most part kept to the tax, rather expulsion or forcible conversion as it gave them more political clout with their southern neighbors... the crusaders didn't get that whole bit sadly.


Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 21:37
Es_bih, as we fast approach 26 November let us not hijack this thread so as to consider the Reconquista as "ethnic cleansing"; instead, open a new thread under Medieval Europe and then we can point fingers at each other without disrupting this particular pass time. Besides, you already know how I feel about the intrusion of contemporary terms upon a past, any past, that moved under its own dynamics and exigencies. To call El Cid but an antecedent for Slobo Milosevic takes a lot of chutzpah...
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Council Member
Council Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 2009 at 21:45
Never mentioned ethnic cleansing though... religious cleansing is a whole different matter from ethnic.
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2009 at 02:53
Religious "cleansing" is known as Baptism Wink and if we are to discuss the nature and character of "religious thought" in the 15th century with regard to the state then we  will most certainly not find any "saints" within 1000 miles of the Mediterranean!
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Birddog View Drop Down
Consul
Consul
Avatar

Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 386
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Birddog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2009 at 04:11
On this day....
1095: Pope Urban urges the faithful to wreest the Holy Lands for the Muslims, starting all the good fun of the Crusades.
 
1648: Pope Innocent X condems the Paece of Westphalia, which ended the 30 Years War one month earlier.
 
1812: The French army had a bad day crossing the Beresina River in Russia.
 
1855: Van Diemen's Land is renamed Tasmania.
 
1939: Stalin attacks Finland starting the Winter War.
 
1942: On this night the Battle of Brisbane started.
 
1950: China enters in Korean conflict in spectaular style launching a HUGE number of troops across the northern boarder of North Korea.
 
1992: Queen Elizabeth announces she will start paying taxes of herpersonal income!
 
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Nov 2009 at 04:54
All pales into insignificance before the truly momentous event (well two actually) associated not only with this date in History but also with the fact they both led to a walrus:
 
1865: Reverend Charles Lewis Dodgson (aka Lewis Carroll) publishes a little tome titled Alice's Adventures in Wonderland.
 
1963: A scruffy quartet of Liverpudlians decide to cut a record under the name Beatles.
 

"O Oysters, come and walk with us!"
The Walrus did beseech.
"A pleasant walk, a pleasant talk,
Along the briny beach:
We cannot do with more than four,
To give a hand to each."

Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2009 at 02:42
Ugh, I hate calendars, but then when one approaches their seventh decade the revulsion is uderstandable; however, for the sake of accuracy and the keeping of a neat chronicle, I would remind all that it was actually today in 1095 that Pope Urban II appealed to the Council of Constance for the dispatch of aid to a beleaguered Easter Roman Empire as well as an effort to restore secure pilgrimage to Jerusalem.
 
Today is also memorable for the commencement of another military enterprise: The Seminole War, the first actually, in 1817. Of course, Andrew Jackson was involved, and he cared not a doodle that the area he "invaded" was beyond the territorial limits of the US: Spanish Florida. This prelude to the Second Seminole War (1835-1842) ensured that the Seminole Nation would hardly trust any future promise from the "Great White Father"--now Carch if you really want an example of true genocide...
 
Fortunately, in the hopes of a better future, today in 1895, Albert Nobel instituted his famed prizes. The American reaction was not long in coming: the first "think tank" is established in Washington, D.C., the Army War College on 27 November 1901Evil Smile.
 
Also today in 1942, one of the strangest imbroglios in naval history took place at Toulon: the scuttling of the French Navy!
 
Given today's current "commodities" nonsense, keep in mind that on 27 November 1967, the Gold Pool Nations pledge their support of a $35 per ounce price for the precious metal! Naturally, this consensus did not last a year and the members of the pool (the US and various European states) stopped selling gold on the London Market in 1968. From 1968-1971 only Central Banks could "trade" with the US on the basis of the $35 price, but in the latter year Central Banks got out of the gold business altogether. I fondly recall the date because my college ring, a 14k bit of collegiate frummery, that cost me $90 in 1965, brought me $850 in 1980. The cessation of Central Bank trade had only caused a doubling of the market price [from $35 to $70] and even the debacle of Vietnam had only brought fluctuations...but boy did oil, Iran, and Jimmy Carter change that! Perhaps, President Obama should take note. Gold at some $1200 an ounce might get me to sell that 18K Phi Beta Kappa Key!
 
Seeing that we are out to Save California here on AE, today marks the anniversary when a political joker named Dan White murdered San Francisco mayor George Moscone and Superintendent Harvey Milk at City Hall.
 
For those inclined to the Classics, here are three famous obits:
 
8 BC:  Horace...translations never did him justice. Learn Latin!
1953: Eugene O'Neill...journies, night, and a lot of drinking.
1981: Lotte Lenya...this original Jenny outlived three husbands!
 
PS: I forgot to mention--and it should have been obvious from the post above--that today, in 1967, the Beatles released the album Magical Mystery Tour. It happened in America, the Brits had to wait until December--I think taxes had something to do with it! However, they did get the first airing of the film that led to the album: BBC 1 broadcast it on 25 December 1967 and again on 30 December.


Edited by drgonzaga - 27 Nov 2009 at 19:57
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Nov 2009 at 09:35
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
Today is also memorable for the commencement of another military enterprise: The Seminole War, the first actually, in 1817. Of course, Andrew Jackson was involved, and he cared not a doodle that the area he "invaded" was beyond the territorial limits of the US: Spanish Florida. This prelude to the Second Seminole War (1835-1842) ensured that the Seminole Nation would hardly trust any future promise from the "Great White Father"--now Carch if you really want an example of true genocide...
 
 
Yes, the Seminole wars were rather bloody and cataclysmic events. The Seminoles were among the Amerindian peoples who put up the hardest resistence and some of them were actually never military defeated by US forces. The most resilient managed to survive in the deeps of the Everglades where their descendants still live.
Also interesting is that the Seminoles refused to hand over Black slave refugees to the whites which also was a contributing factor to the war (especially the second one). These blacks came to be a special group among the Seminoles called Black Seminoles. Also after the Seminole war they experinced a lot of adventures and some of them even ended up in Mexico.
But that story could maybe be the subject for a thread of its own.
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 05:06
Today is a trivia lover's holy day!
 
1095: Pope Urban II selects Count Raymond IV Monoculus of Toulouse as leader for the relief of Christianity in the East. Of course, he also selects a bishop to keep two sharp eyes on the wily Provencal, Adhemar of Le Puy.
 
1443: Gjergi Skanderberg (aka Iskander Bey) pulls a fast one on the Ottomans and changes sides after Murad defeats the Hungarians at Varna (10 November 1443) by marching to Kruje and by ruse seizing its fortress. At which time he abjures Islam and raises the Imperial eagles! He will give the Turks a headache for the next 20 years.
 
1520: Magellan makes it to the Pacific! Why he chose the "hard way" remains a mystery, but then we would not have the Straits of Magellan, would we?
 
1582: One of the earliest know "cougars" in history, Anne Hathaway, aged 26, takes out a bond license to marry one strapling known as William Shakespeare, age 18! Now about that second best bed...?
 
1660: A group of notorious bon vivants at Gresham College. among them Cristopher Wren and Robert Boyle organize what would later be known as The Royal Society.
 
These two are for you Carch...
 
1729: The Natchez descend upon Fort Rosalie on the Mississippi banks and slaughter 229 French [138 men, 35 women, and 56 children]. They gained entry to the post by posing as traders. See, it was not a one-way street after all...
 
1785: The Treaty of Hopewell...the United States and the Cherokee Nation agree to perpetual harmony as the US recognizes Cherokee title to their "hunting grounds"...Hopewell, ironic isn't it?
 
1814: Mass media makes it debut in London. The Times in London turns to a new-fangled German invention, steam-powered printing pressess developed by Koenig and Bauer, and flood the city with cheap news!
 
1821: One of the great fictions in history: today is Panama Independence Day! Let us not mention those strange events in 1903!
 
1830: The Polish uprising against Russian rule begins...
 
1843: Hawaiian Independence Day (Ka Lahui). Both the United Kingdom and France recognize the Kingdom of Hawaii...the Americans were not consulted!
 
1861: The Confederate Congress, gleefully welcomes Missouri into the CSA; however, no update to the flag was necessary since it already had 13 stars. However, since a state convention had already repudiayed the sitting legislature and governor, while a federal army sat in Jefferson City.No one ever told that to Harry Truman's mother.
 
1893: New Zealand sets a bad example to the world: the Kiwis permit women to vote in a "national" election. Victoria Regina was not amused!
 
1905: Sinn Fein is organized in Ireland. Victoria is safely dead...
 
1912: Albanians choose this date to declare independence from the Ottomans. Gee, I wonder why? (see supra]. Who says imbibing too much History does not cause hangovers?
 
1919: The first woman is elected to the British Parliament, Countess Markiewicz, however she does not take her seat and with other Irish MPs forms the first Dail Eireann. Unfortunately for Winston Churchill, Lady Nancy Astor, who was not Irish [an American of all things] does take hers that year.
 
1920: The Kilmichael Ambush...it might have been the "Troubles" for the Brits but in Ireland it was the War for Independence!
 
1925: The Grand Ole Opry hits the air waves...it's a culture thing, and actually authentic back then!
 
1929: Richard E. Byrd flies over the South Pole. Ford Trimotors anyone?
 
1942: The first B-24, the Liberator, rolls out of Ford's Willow Run Plant at Denton near Detroit. The "B" does not stand for Boeing--which had nothing to do with this aircraft--and it was manufacured by Ford under license from Consolidated Aircraft (later Convair) of San Diego.
 
1942: Socialism comes to America! The government rations coffee!
 
1943: The Tehran Conference. Reza Shah Pahlavi had already been sent packing...
 
1944: Those pesky Albanians again...armed partisans "liberate" the country from those troublesome Italians. And while we are at it we might as well note that again on this day in 1997 the Kosova Liberation Army makes its public debut...talk about an Albanian rut, so it should come as no surprise that in 1998 Albanians hold a referendum for a new constitution on 28 November.
 
And here, I must admit that I did not whet Carch's appetite sufficiently, so here goes:
 
1847: Indians massacre the Whitmans and some 15 others in Walla Walla, Wahington, setting off the Cayusa War.
1864: The Chivington Massacre. Colorado militia leader Major John Chivington encounters an encampment of Cheyenne at Sand Creek and exterminates from 140 to 400 people, mostly women, children and the aged since the warriors were out hunting!
1872: The Modoc War commences.
 
Something about the approach of winter and the going after Indians...
 
Now there are many more juicy tidbits, but come on look them up in your Funk & Wagnalls...oh, but I can not let this one go by--
 
1994: Convicted serial killer and gourmand, Jeffrey Dahmer, is clubbed to death in the Columbia Correctional Institution gym. he should have stayed away from those showers!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 28 Nov 2009 at 15:40
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 06:13
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

he should have stayed away from those showers!


It happened while he was in the gym, bludgeoned to death with a bar from a weight machine. Rather fitting, I think, seeing as Dahmer killed his first victim with a barbell. May he rot in hell.
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 13:23
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

 
1729: The Natchez descend upon Fort Rosalie on the Mississippi banks and slaughter 229 French [138 men, 35 women, and 56 children]. They gained entry to the post by posing as traders. See, it was not a one-way street after all... 


The end result of the conflict became worse for the Natzhes. The French and some allies attacked the Natchez several times and many were slaughtered and other were displaced. Finally the tribe broke up in smaller groups whereof some were assimilated or integrated in other groups such as the Cherokees. Many Natzhes later accompanied the Cherokees in the trail of tears to Oklahoma.

The conflicts in the region did not only affect the Natchez but also many other groups whereof some also scattered and became severely weakend.
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 13:28
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

1864: The Chivington Massacre. Colorado militia leader Major John Chivington encounters an encampment of Cheyenne at Sand Creek and exterminate from 140 to 400 people, mostly women, children and the aged since the warriors were out hunting!


Some of the details of the massacre at Sand Creek is really gruesome. Chivingtons soldiers behaved in the worst possible manners and raped and mutilated women, cutting of their breasts and private parts. Some of the soldiers even took the bodyparts as gruesome souvenirs, hanging them on their saddles or waving them in the air. This massacre was really a step backwards in the evolution of man.

One can also mention that the film Soldier Blue from 1970 was based on these events. Even if the movie did not show more than a tiny part of the atrocities it still got much attention for its cruel and realistic scenes.


Edited by Carcharodon - 28 Nov 2009 at 13:33
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 06 May 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 15:14
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Why the silence over 24 October? Was it a quiet day in the minds of most? Let us begin with an apt summation from the annals of forgettable literature:
 
It was the best of days; it was the worst of days, and a few dark and stormy nights as well:
 
Today was the date chosen by the Polish astronomer and politician, Johan Hevelius as the correct date for the origin of the Mundane Era, 3963 years before the birth of Christ, with a little fudge on 10th century Masoretic calculations and a correction of Scaliger's 1583 supposition announcing 1 January 4713 BC, at the noon hour no less, as the correct starting point for the Julian calendar! All of this rigamarole arose from efforts to isolate time in terms of recorded solar eclipses in ancient sources. Ahhh, the detritus of "science", ain't it wonderful? This pursuit long outlived Hevelius, but someone must have been angered over this Polish upstart for on 24 October 1793, Poland ceased to exist as Russia, Prussia, and Austria divvied what remained of that monarchy.
 
 
nope, Poland ceased to exist in 1795 not 1793.
Sorry, but I just started to read this entertaining thread.
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 16:02
Majkes writes:
 
[N]ope, Poland ceased to exist in 1795 not 1793.
Sorry, but I just started to read this entertaining thread.
 
To which drgonzaga responds:
 
What are you a masochist or something?Wink
 
Not to prolong the agony but when the Confederation of Targowica appealed for Russian assistance in 1793, it was all over! What was left after the Prussians gobbled up the coast and the Russians digested the choices morsels in the East was still under Russian military occupation. It was that occupation that provoked the Kosciuszko Uprising of 1794 and after the bribing of Austria, put paid to the whole matter in 1795. Now, I am going to pull a technical on you. The Commonwealth of the Two Nations (Poland and Lithuania) did end in 1793 since Russia essentially absorbed all of Lithuania. Stanislaw August not withstanding, what remained after 1793 never constituted a government at all.  However, after that fine piece of Press Secretary-speak, the 1793 in the original post was a typo: the removal of the Polish rump from the European oven did take place on 24 October 1795.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 16:09
Congratulations. Would I had been so ingenious when making mistakes in the days of my youth.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 06 May 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 16:35
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Majkes writes:
 
[N]ope, Poland ceased to exist in 1795 not 1793.
Sorry, but I just started to read this entertaining thread.
 
To which drgonzaga responds:
 
What are you a masochist or something?Wink
 
LOLit's kind a stupid but I just couldn't resist. I thought myself how boring must be a thread informing what happened on particular date but you guys give interesting information instead of likes WWII broke out, WWI ended.
 
Not to prolong the agony but when the Confederation of Targowica appealed for Russian assistance in 1793, it was all over! What was left after the Prussians gobbled up the coast and the Russians digested the choices morsels in the East was still under Russian military occupation. It was that occupation that provoked the Kosciuszko Uprising of 1794 and after the bribing of Austria, put paid to the whole matter in 1795. Now, I am going to pull a technical on you. The Commonwealth of the Two Nations (Poland and Lithuania) did end in 1793 since Russia essentially absorbed all of Lithuania. Stanislaw August not withstanding, what remained after 1793 never constituted a government at all.  However, after that fine piece of Press Secretary-speak, the 1793 in the original post was a typo: the removal of the Polish rump from the European oven did take place on 24 October 1795.
 
You can see it like that but still 1795 is more correct.
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 17:10
Majkes, it is all about "connections" with a lot of jibes at current pomposities. The bit about "Poland" is an excellent example. Polish nationalists love to have the borders of the "kingdom" at the gates of Old Muscovy, when in reality that entire region was the "Grand Duchy" of Lithuania. All of the talk is Poland, Poland, Poland...but there are no Poles there at all! No one ever mentions the Commonwealth of the Two Nations (admittedly a modern usage) but still in the Regnum Poloniae Magnusque Ducatus Lithuaniae, the larger territorial entity was Lithuania notwithstanding the arrangements undertaken under the Union of Lublin [give the Poles the Ukraina headache]. Interestingly, the crisis of the so-called Polish Constitution of 1791 that abolished the "separateness" of the Lithuanians (its government, treasury, and army) was the principal reason for Targowica and the call for Russian aid! In more recent days, this faux nationalism of the Poles--e.g. the claims to Vilnia and beyond in the aftermath of WWI--have caused headaches. Is it not ironic, that a nation that underwent partition in the 18th century, would cooperate in the partition of another state in 1938?
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 06 May 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 21:02
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

Majkes, it is all about "connections" with a lot of jibes at current pomposities. The bit about "Poland" is an excellent example. Polish nationalists love to have the borders of the "kingdom" at the gates of Old Muscovy, when in reality that entire region was the "Grand Duchy" of Lithuania. All of the talk is Poland, Poland, Poland...but there are no Poles there at all! No one ever mentions the Commonwealth of the Two Nations (admittedly a modern usage) but still in the Regnum Poloniae Magnusque Ducatus Lithuaniae, the larger territorial entity was Lithuania notwithstanding the arrangements undertaken under the Union of Lublin [give the Poles the Ukraina headache]. Interestingly, the crisis of the so-called Polish Constitution of 1791 that abolished the "separateness" of the Lithuanians (its government, treasury, and army) was the principal reason for Targowica and the call for Russian aid! In more recent days, this faux nationalism of the Poles--e.g. the claims to Vilnia and beyond in the aftermath of WWI--have caused headaches. Is it not ironic, that a nation that underwent partition in the 18th century, would cooperate in the partition of another state in 1938?
 
ok but what it has to do with the fact that Poland ceased to exist in 1795 not in 1793???No historian will agree with the date 1793.
 
Besides most of what you say is simply untrue or half true:
1. Where ther were no Poles? Żólkiewski and Lisowski and Mniszech familly were all Poles, all involved in taking Mosow. Besides nationality wasn't important those times but nobility.
2. No, Lithuanian separateness wasn't main reason for Targowica but so called "nobility freedoms".
3. Czechs 20 years earlier did the same with Polish territory. Nobody mentions that somehow.
Besides what do you want to prove?
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 21:46

What do I want to prove, Maj? How about that Poles are still tetchy about their historical myths!?! After all, the typo that generated this to-do was obvious from the start otherwise the presence of "Austria" in 1793 is ridiculous. Internal evidence indicates that 1793 is nothing more than that since Austria partook solely of the first and third "partitions". Remember, the thread emphasizes the day (in this instance 24 October) and not the year.

 
Anyway need I quote Ambassador Jan Widacki on the behavior of some contemporary Polish "senators" with regard to Lithuania? Heaven help me if I have to bring in the Byelorus contingent!


Edited by drgonzaga - 28 Nov 2009 at 21:47
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Majkes View Drop Down
Chieftain
Chieftain


Joined: 06 May 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 1224
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Majkes Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Nov 2009 at 22:17
Originally posted by drgonzaga drgonzaga wrote:

What do I want to prove, Maj? How about that Poles are still tetchy about their historical myths!?! After all, the typo that generated this to-do was obvious from the start otherwise the presence of "Austria" in 1793 is ridiculous. Internal evidence indicates that 1793 is nothing more than that since Austria partook solely of the first and third "partitions". Remember, the thread emphasizes the day (in this instance 24 October) and not the year.

 
Anyway need I quote Ambassador Jan Widacki on the behavior of some contemporary Polish "senators" with regard to Lithuania? Heaven help me if I have to bring in the Byelorus contingent!
 
No idea what you've smoken todayConfused. I do remember from my primary scholl there were III partitions and last one in 1795.
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 03:01
To show you the foibles of Historical Constructs, one could well argue there were but two partitions: 1) Consequent to the Bar Confederation, the Confederation Sejm reached a modus vivendi that permitted the continuation of the Poniatowski monarchy with the transfer to the neighboring powers of significant territories. 2) This modus vivendi perdured until 1791-93, at which time consequent to the the adoption of the revolutionary constitution of 1791, the ensuing domestic rivalries undermined not only the Poniatowski monarchy but ensured military intervention as factions vied for the claim of legitimacy. There was no settlement in 1793 since the only offshoot was the surging forth of rival political claims and competing Sejms, one abrogating the 1791 Constitution and another, in defiance of the Russian military presence, maintaining it. This ambiguity was resolved not only through military action but by the diplomatic resort of once again bringing together Russia, Prussia, and Austria to settle the frontiers of their realms by the total elimination of Poland. This action effectively took place in 1795, and settled--for the moment--the chaos that had surged forth in 1791--something the actions of 1793 had not done.
 
I am sure that some historian of the future might elaborate a thesis on Gulf War I and Gulf War II and view them as corollaries of the Iran-Iraq War, but then the only lesson I am trying to impart is that history is not as neat as the writers of textbooks make it appear. Just the simple fact that the Polish Question dragged on well into the 19th century and returned in full glory at the opening of the 20th should give you a hint as to the point I am wishing to impart.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Nov 2009 at 05:19
Having thought I was rid of the "Polish Question" with the dawning of a new day, 29 November, the calendar takes its revenge upon little old me...so let's get it over quickly:
 
1830: An armed uprising takes place in the "Kingdom of Poland" set up by the Congress of Vienna as an appenage of the Russian Empire.
 
Having got that out of the way--have no fear Poland will pop up again*--let us turn the page to other fancies.
 
799: Pope Leo III returns in triumph to Rome, after a little unpleasantness with the relatives of his predecessor Adrian I in April of that year. Do Italian politics ever change? If you are curious why this event is brought up, the reason is simple: Leo III returned to his See in the company of the Franks. Later in 800 Charles [yes, the Great one] himself would enter Rome to receive the imperial crown at the hands of the pontiff. Now you know why the French monarchs would later become known as "Their Most Christian Majesties"...
 
Having beat up on the Poles previously, I will now pick on the Germans:
 
1349: The Jews of Augsburg are massacred. Some old habits are hard to break, aren't they?
 
1516: The Kingdom of France and the Swiss Confederation sign the Treaty of Freiburg swearing eternal amity. Napoleon would later look upon the document as a nuisance giving him headaches while more important matters needed attention. But in all fairness to Nappy, it was those dastardly Jacobins who had created the mess with their invasion of the cantons under the pretext of their "liberation" and the creation of the "Helvetic Republic". To know how this period in their history still rankle the Swiss, keep in mind that in 1995, the Federal Republic cancelled any commemoration of the Helvetic Republic!
 
1562: Lofland of Livonia submits himself to Sigismund II Augustus, the last of the Jagiellons. Yes, it's Poland again.
 
Now on to a lesson on government, fiscal policy and militarism that happen to have calendric concordance:
 
1573: Luis de Requesens y Zuniga succeeds the Duke of Alva as "governor" of the Netherlands. A Carrot replaces the Stick.
1581: Doornik surrenders to the Duke of Parma, another "governor". The Stick once again.
1596: Philip II devalues the Peso Fuerte (the Castillian currency-of-account). All of those sricks cost a pretty penny!
 
Now to a heady day in the Annals of Hopeless Causes:
 
1745: Bonnie Prince Charley--no not the current eared-one--moves into Manchester and occupies Carlisle. Take that you bloody Germans.
 
The future of all intelligence agents is also assured on this day:
 
1775: Sir James Jay invents invisible ink. Unfortunately, the novelty was not available to a certain Major Andre (aka John Anderson) in 1780.
 
1781: Because of the general war in the Atlantic during the years 1779-1783, the slave-trade was somewhat depressed, hence the crew of the slave-ship Zong hit upon a novel means of making their voyage profitable--they dump their cargo of 133 Africans into the Atlantic so as to claim an "insurance" loss. The case of Gregson v. Gilbert would soon follow when the insurors refused to pay because the story of the "loss" was too suspicious.  See, there is some good in Insurance Adjustors and Investigators.
 
1803: Dessalines and Cristophe declare Saint Domingue (Haiti) an independent state. Thomas Jefferson was not amused...
 
1847: The brief War of the Sonderbund in Switzerland comes to an end. The principal victim: the Jesuits, who were expelled in 1848 with the adoption of the new Federal Constitution which explicitly banned the Order. One must truly wonder how the Jesuits--probably the most liberal clerical group in Christianity--are constantly called reactionaries by so-called modernizers. Anyway, the Swiss did not get around to correcting this error until 1973.
 
1870: The Elementary Education Act enacted by Parliament. Compulsory primary education comes to England and Wales. Don't worry it only applied to the kiddies between the ages of 5 and 10. You could still get them into the factories or the fields--not to mention the coal mines--at 11!
 
1887: The US Navy receives rights to Pearl Harbor, could annexation be far behind? Now you know why the Cubans always made a fuss about Guantanamo and Cienfuegos. not to mention the Isle of Pines (from 1903 on...Fidel could never match Batista here, at least the latter got the Navy out of the Isle of Pines and Cienfuegos in the 1930s).
 
Other than that...life goes on obla dih obla-dah...
 
Oops... I forgot that today John Lennon and Yoko Ono rendered virginity suspect...
 
1968: The London release of their album, Two Virgins 
 
Could that be the reason for the following?
 
1969: the Beatles composition Come Together goes to #1 on the singles chart!
 
 
 
*beware the worm dangling on the hook.


Edited by drgonzaga - 29 Nov 2009 at 05:23
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2009 at 03:54
Well today marks 70 years since the first shots were fired on the Russo-Finnish front. The David v Goliath contest would continue for 105 days and will cost the lives of over 200k men and a humiliation for the USSR that will make Hitler certain that it is nothing but a hollow structure that you "kick the door and the whole damn building would collapse".
 
How wrong was he?
 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Council Member
Council Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2009 at 08:44
November 30   

1804

Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase was tried for political bias.


1966

Barbados became independent of Great Britain.


1974

The fossilized remains of a female human ancestor named Lucy were found in Ethiopia.


1993

The Brady Bill, requiring a five-day waiting period for handgun purchases, is signed.


1995

President Bill Clinton became the first U.S. president to visit Northern Ireland.


2004

Ken Jennings ended his 74-game winning spree on the game show, Jeopardy!
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2009 at 14:47
How neutral of you es_bih. Thomas Jefferson went after Samuel Chase with all guns firing simply because his amour propre as political genius was challenged by the feisty lawyer. Besides, Chase was only the "trial run" by Jefferson for a full purge of the Federal Judiciary! That it failed miserably caused Jefferson a deep funk and, consequently, he blamed Burr, which naturally led to a "treason" trial of the latter at the first opportunity Jefferson perceived as the moment of revenge. Let's make sure that everyone knows, that Old Tom Jefferson was not an advocate of "Constitutional" government, in fact he thought the document "flawed", except as it concerned slavery--naturally--since Monticello just could not function without that little detail. By the way, Old Tom between the years 1790-1795 regularly committed treason by keeping the French informed on the inner details of the Washington Administration.
 
And while we are addressing political hypocrisy, let us mark the date as the "official" kick-off of a divided Berlin in 1948 as the Soviets back the actions of "Fritz" Ebert for the disruption of the city's unitary government.
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
es_bih View Drop Down
Council Member
Council Member
Avatar

Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 6381
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote es_bih Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2009 at 14:58
Actually, buddy, it was 2am, couldn't sleep and was too tired otherwise to elaborate.
Back to Top
Carcharodon View Drop Down
Tsar
Tsar


Joined: 04 May 2007
Location: Northern Europe
Status: Offline
Points: 4959
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Carcharodon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2009 at 15:34
On Nov 30, 1718 the legendary Swedish king Karl XII lost his life outside the fortress of Fredriksten at Fredrikshald in Norway. This day is commemorated today (regardless of the discrepancies between the old and new calendar).


It is interesting to note that the bullet (made from a button) that is supposed to have killed the king is said to later have been picked up by a Swedish soldier named Nordenstierna. He later brought it back home to Sweden. Later he threw it away out of fear that it brought bad luck.

In 1924 a bullet (made of a button) was found near Nordenstiernas home. It was later brought to the museum in Varberg (located in the Fortress of Varberg, the one with a monster in its moat if you recall the thread What is your local monster?). It has been much discussed if the bullet really is the one that killed Karl XII. Recently one has even sampled DNA from it but no conclusive answers has ever been possible.



The famous bullet that is said to have killed Karl XII.



Edited by Carcharodon - 30 Nov 2009 at 15:36
Back to Top
Al Jassas View Drop Down
King
King


Joined: 07 Aug 2007
Status: Offline
Points: 5000
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Al Jassas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 2009 at 15:39

Isn't it ironic the Karl's greatest victory (Nerva 18 years before) was on this day too.

 
Al-Jassas
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 2009 at 02:58
Today, 1 December 1720 (OS 14 November) Karl XII of Sweden built the world 's tallest minaret on the Neva...OK, OK just kidding but given the evidence at hand, minarets are "in". Wonder when we'll get around to Minotaurs?
 
But down to business:
 
1135: Henry the First, not only in name but also in fact--he was the first literate, you know he could read and write--king of England dies. Why else do you think he got the sobriquet Bonclerc!?!
 
However, other notables also found the date unfortunate:
 
1374: Magnus Eriksson--the II or the IV depending upon which Swede you talk to--better known as "the Caresser"--finally brings a gay old time in Sweden to an end by dying. The on-again, off-again King of Sweden and Norway had just one too many headaches with Valdemar of Denmark to suit the Swedes.
 
1515: El Gran Capitan, Gonzalo Fernandez de Cordoba, tamer of Moors and Italians, not to mention the French, dies quietly in retirement (he was just too popular and quite a spend-thrift for the likes of one King Fernando). Some claim he lingered until 2 December, but if we are going to get into technicalities he had been officially "dead" after King Fernando removed him as Viceroy of Naples in 1507.
 
1521: Pope Leo X, scion of the Medici, dies at Rome. He should be remembered for one of the more serious miscalculations of the papacy. On hearing of the antics of Luther, he is said to have remarked: "Not another monkish controversy!?!"
 
1633: Isabel Clara Eugenia, the patroness of the Flemish Baroque--probably the principal reason why Belgium exists today--and governess of the Netherlands, dies.
 
1825: In political mythology, he disappears into a monastery in the Ukraine; however, in fact, Aleksandri I Pavlovich, Tsar of All the Russias, dies on 1 December of typhus at Taganrog.
 
1934: Sergei Kirov assassinated. Stalin gives the order to "round up the usual suspects".
 
1973: David Ben Gurion dies in Tel-Aviv amidst the political recriminations that followed the Yom Kippur War of that October.
 
Now to the political goings on that still echo through time:
 
1167: The communes of Northern Italy form the Lombard League, sound familiar?
1566: Fernado Alvarez de Toledo receives the title of Duque de Alba from Philip II and is soon on his way to the Netherlands.
1640: The Duke of Braganza proclaims himself "King of Portugal".
 
Now here's a little footnote usually hushed up:
 
1641: Massachussets Bay Colony gives slavery statutory recognition. The first English colonial government to do so.
 
1742: Yelizabeta Petrovna orders the expulsion of all Jews from Great Russia shortly after her coronation as Tsarina. You know, pursuit of Westernization and all that...
 
1822: Dom Pedro I crowned Emperor of Brazil...those Braganzas do have this thing for 1 December and declarations of "independence".
 
1887: Sherlock Holmes first proclaims the "games afoot, Watson"!
 
1903: Birth of the Western film genre: The Great Train Robbery is released in New York. Filmed entirely in the "wilds" of New Jersey!
 
1913: For introduces the continuous assembly line...
 
1924: Plutarco Elias Calles becomes Presidente de la Republica Mexicana. What with everybody else dead...
 
1929: BINGO! The game folks not the economic crisis.
 
1955: The arrest of Rosa Parks
 
1987: The digging of the Chunnel begins...England will soon begin its rapid decline and poor Europe will have to fear football hooligans forever in search of a cheap pint!
 
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 04 Dec 2009 at 02:30
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
drgonzaga View Drop Down
King
King
Avatar
Plus Ultra

Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 6262
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drgonzaga Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2009 at 05:13
December 2nd has some strange anniversaries:
 
1804: Vive l'Empereur. The Corsican adventurer crowns himself Emperor in Paris at Notre Dame, formerly the Temple of Reason!
 
1805: Austerlitz...nothing could go wrong.
 
1813: Willem Frederik VI (I) van Nassau Orange-Dietz accepts a "constitutional" crown as the Grand Alliance envisions a post-Napoleonic Europe. It is the formal end of the Dutch "Republic", but hey he was promised the old Austrian (Spanish) Netherlands. After 1830, all that remains of that piece of territory within his monarchy is the name. For the next 180 years history students will wonder what Netherlands their professors are pontificating about.
 
1822: A congress convened at San Salvador proposed the incorporation of El Salvador to the United States. Just think about it...
 
1823: John Quincy Adams prepares a policy statement for President James Monroe...voila, the Monroe Doctrine.
 
1848: Franz Josef I survives the Revolution of 1848 amd vecomes Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary.
 
1852: President Louis Napoleon takes a look at the calendar and decides he too should be Emperor. Bye bye Second Republic, Hello Second Empire. Luckily, Notre Dame was spared the theatre.
 
1899: The US and the German Empire agree to split the difference at Samoa. The Germans got most of the land but the Americans got the better harbor! The Americans are still there!
 
1908: Pu Yi the "Last Emperor" is enthroned at "Peking".
 
1914: The Austrians march into Beograd.
 
1927: The Model A hits the road. Ford will rule the world. Who ciuld resist paying only $385 for a set of wheels.
 
1933: The critics: He can't sing and he can't act and what's with this dancing? Fred Astaire makes his film debut in Dancing Lady (premiered on 24 November but not in general release until 2 December). At the top of the bill, Joan Crawford with second billing for Clark Gable. Why the film also had the Three Stooges...Nelson Eddy and Fred Astaire played themselves...famed Broadway stars (in brief cameos)! Yes, the critics were talking about Gable! Nevertheless, this film remains a must see...make sure you've popped a video of Mommie Dearest first.
 
1941: Tora, Tora, Tora...Yamamoto deploys for Pearl Harbor.
 
1942: Enrico Fermi conducts the first controlled nuclear chain reaction! Can the Iranians be far behind...
 
1956: Fidel castro reaches Cuba on the Granma!
 
1958: The Benelux Treaty...today the dikes tomorrow Europe.
 
1961: On the fifth anniversary of the Granma landing, Fidrl declares himself a Marxist-Leninist.
 
1963: The Dutch launch their first "rocket". Who knows, DeGaulle might declare himself Emperor of the French.
 
1971: Various sheiks, some in the news of late, form the United Arab Emirates...
 
1986: For those of you who actually think Wall Street rules the world: the Dow Jones hits the unheard of high of 1955.57 points. Now you know how worthless both current currency and market values really are.
 
1993: Dow Jones hits a new high 3702.11...from now on verbiage will be fierce. Tech becomes a by-word...
 
Well. you know the rest...
 
PS: In case you do not, paper is only worth what some fool is willing to pay for it. No matter what CNBC might claim.
 
 


Edited by drgonzaga - 03 Dec 2009 at 14:30
Honi soit qui mal y pense
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 56789 13>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.140 seconds.