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    Posted: 15 Oct 2014 at 17:50
What discussion topics does our community members wish to see more of?

Please share your opinions.

Thanks,
Panther
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Oct 2014 at 03:13
Your captain has a short list:

1) Economics is a topic that is of not only historic interest, but very much crucial to today's world. We have, for example, the libertarian faction in the US, if nothing else a unique phenomenon of today's world. Another curiosity is the concept of Modern Monetary Theory, with turns a lot of established notions on their  collective heads, and is supported by no small number in the field.

2) On the 100th anniversary of WW1, I think it appropriate to discuss the nature of war, a topic eternal through history, and with us today, although I suspect, lightly examined from a scientific perspective, certainly when taking into account some of the more rabid media pronouncements of recent years.

3) History, in its broadest sense, contains the entire sweep of human experience. There is no reason we could not debate all the overbearing issues of the day, which might include technological change, and its resultant effect on societies, the effects of increasing population, the consumerization of society, the increasingly unequal distribution of wealth in the world....much more to choose from of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2014 at 11:26
I agree with the "captain" in particular about 2) and 3), and think a discussion about war through the ages is overdue. 
There is another potential field for discussion that I have no good word for. A discussion about "what history in particular, and academic work in general" is about (or should be about,  "method"). 
An example of a possible question here could be: what is  discussions like the one about the "whiteness" or "blackness" of egyptians or others about(if it is about anything?)? What is its contribution to history?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paradigm of Humanity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Oct 2014 at 18:29
More philosophy Smile I won't be necessarily get involved though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 01:20
My favorite topic is comparative history. I would like to discuse what makes societies to evolve, and in the process I like to contrast the parallel evolution of Eurasian vs American civilizations. For instance, how come both in America and in the New World evolved the concept of zero, there was invented the game Parchesi, why both in Alexandria and ancient Peru there were invented the hydraulic toys, and why the wheel that was known both in Mesopotamia and Mexico, only in the first region lead to the development of chariots.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 07:10
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

My favorite topic is comparative history. I would like to discuse what makes societies to evolve, and in the process I like to contrast the parallel evolution of Eurasian vs American civilizations. For instance, how come both in America and in the New World evolved the concept of zero, there was invented the game Parchesi, why both in Alexandria and ancient Peru there were invented the hydraulic toys, and why the wheel that was known both in Mesopotamia and Mexico, only in the first region lead to the development of chariots.


To make such comparisons I think we should make one thing clear: Is there other ways to go than to look for the environmental differences, and the changes of those environments, be they natural or "man made"? I think in a way the answer is "no". There is no way to threat that question in a reasonable way without comparing the natural environments and their effects. OK, there is the possibillity we may not always find any reasonable "environmental explanation". Then we may consequently accept to give up finding any. From other threads (not least with You as participant) and from discussions face to face I got the impression that this "environmental" way is not that easy to accxept.

Edited by fantasus - 18 Oct 2014 at 07:20
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 11:54
I think progress is related to the size of populations. If a culture invents something that gives them a food surplus population will growth... and little by little society will get more complex. I see this as a natural and logical process.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fantasus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 12:18
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I think progress is related to the size of populations. If a culture invents something that gives them a food surplus population will growth... and little by little society will get more complex. I see this as a natural and logical process.
That leaves all differences between regions and different places as enigmatic! Thenalso the reverse seems to have happened from time to time. History is not just a continuum of *growth and progress", but more complex and more interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Oct 2014 at 23:39
There have been studies done on the nature of evolution in society called neoevolutionary social paradigm or neoevolutionism.  There are some merits like what Pinguin said where the complexity of an area increases due to the increase in size of a population and with it the increases in social inequality and dominance scenarios.  But the cause is not clear did people evolve society to tackle resource problems or did resource problems arise systems of social inequality.  The picture it turns out is a combination of many things with culture creators being at the forefront but who themselves are affected by a long chain of billiard ball agents whom also have power.  It is now known that societies can rise and fall and it doesn't necessarily have to do with food production.  In other words food production worsening can be a byproduct of the worsening levels of society in terms of social inequality and dominance projected by few key players.  Overall society does grow larger however.  That's how you get from band to tribe to chiefdom to state.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Captain Vancouver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 00:00
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I think progress is related to the size of populations. If a culture invents something that gives them a food surplus population will growth... and little by little society will get more complex. I see this as a natural and logical process.

Countries like Britain "progressed" in that there was technical and political innovation, despite a relatively small population. Others, like China, languished for years despite a huge population.

Population, it seems to me, is but on tiny aspect of any equation that describes progress.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 00:53
Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:


Countries like Britain "progressed" in that there was technical and political innovation, despite a relatively small population. Others, like China, languished for years despite a huge population.

Population, it seems to me, is but on tiny aspect of any equation that describes progress.


Absolutely. But what I mean by large population was to pass from the level of tribe (a hundred individuals) to city states (a few ten-thousand peoples), that started the development of modern civilizations. Beyond the one-million-people mark there population size doesn't make much difference.

In fact, in the most creative times of people like the Greeks, Polynesians or Mayans the population was relatively small by modern standards (a few hundred thousand peoples at most Confused).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 03:47
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

What discussion topics does our community members wish to see more of?

Please share your opinions.

Thanks,
Panther


Personally, I'm happy with the topics that are being posted.

Members should feel free, imo, to post items that are inclusive, that is they provide and opportunity for discussion, rather than make bland, immutable statements.
It's not that I was born in Ireland,
It's the Ireland that was born in me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 05:44
Bland immutable sounds familiar.  Would this have anything to do with Pinguin's recent string of posts devoted to color commentary in the Were Egyptian's White thread?

From Pinguin's post:
Quote
You insist in claiming for blacks the achievements of Egyptians. Perhaps the reason is that Blacks don't have many important civilizations to claim for themselves, which is a pity actually, so they got obsessed in claiming Egypt for them. But that's not the truth.


Sounds like the kind of thing a bland immutable fellow might say especially in light of the fact that haplotype R is less than one percent of Egypt.


Edited by literaryClarity - 19 Oct 2014 at 05:50
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Oct 2014 at 17:31
My string of posts was not about color commentaries, sir, but about Afrocentrism. I would like to discuss actual historical facts rather than ideologies.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote literaryClarity Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 01:01
You were boasting of Eurocentrism.  Afrocentrism was never an issue when talking about Egypt.  Egypt is in Africa, not Europe.
http://hwyst.hangzhou.com.cn/wmyzh/content/2013-10/09/content_4920423.htm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote toyomotor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2014 at 06:24
This thread is not meant for you to continue your argument. Take it elsewhere!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Oct 2014 at 23:48
Originally posted by literaryClarity literaryClarity wrote:

You were boasting of Eurocentrism. ...


Eurocentric would be your Grandma (Insult in Spanish)

No sir. It is not Eurocentrism but common sense, fellow Afro-Gringo. In fact, I am not Eurocentric at all, because I give a damn about colonialistic Europe, but I do believe in science and rational thinking. And you, sir, are not rational.  And I do admire many peoples around the world, including the civilization of Zimbabwe and Ife, but I don't buy imaginary lies about Atlantis, Hyperborea or Black Egypt. You don't even know how to express yourself in a rational debate.

First, you don't follow the rules of debate, one of the first ones its to focus in the ideas and not in the persons that express them. And the more important is not to insult the adversary.

Second, you have the slightest idea about logic, sets and cathegories. Given you don't understand not all things are two valued (like in aristotelian logic), but there are some things that varies continuosly from an extreme to the other. Like it is the case of height, weight and colors.

Third, you build straw men, asuming things on the adversary that aren't actually true.

Fourth, you aren't defending the truth, and give a damn about the truth. All you want to do is to impose your ideas by force. But in that you failed.

Fifth, you don't know I have debated even with such prominent lunies like Clyde Winters, and I exposed his lies.

Sixth: You believe you are cool, but you aren't.





Edited by pinguin - 27 Oct 2014 at 23:54
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Akolouthos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 01:23
Guys, that is quite enough. This thread, as toymotor so eloquently put it, has nothing to do with the other; drop it here and take it back to the other thread.

Let's stick to suggestions for future discussion topics.

-Akolouthos
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Oct 2014 at 01:37
I agree. I want to discuss historical topics.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 03:55
Originally posted by fantasus fantasus wrote:

Originally posted by Captain Vancouver Captain Vancouver wrote:

Your captain has a short list:

1) Economics is a topic that is of not only historic interest, but very much crucial to today's world. We have, for example, the libertarian faction in the US, if nothing else a unique phenomenon of today's world. Another curiosity is the concept of Modern Monetary Theory, with turns a lot of established notions on their  collective heads, and is supported by no small number in the field.

2) On the 100th anniversary of WW1, I think it appropriate to discuss the nature of war, a topic eternal through history, and with us today, although I suspect, lightly examined from a scientific perspective, certainly when taking into account some of the more rabid media pronouncements of recent years.

3) History, in its broadest sense, contains the entire sweep of human experience. There is no reason we could not debate all the overbearing issues of the day, which might include technological change, and its resultant effect on societies, the effects of increasing population, the consumerization of society, the increasingly unequal distribution of wealth in the world....much more to choose from of course.
I agree with the "captain" in particular about 2) and 3), and think a discussion about war through the ages is overdue. 
There is another potential field for discussion that I have no good word for. A discussion about "what history in particular, and academic work in general" is about (or should be about,  "method"). 
An example of a possible question here could be: what is  discussions like the one about the "whiteness" or "blackness" of egyptians or others about(if it is about anything?)? What is its contribution to history?


Great suggestions. Fantasus, that sounds like the study of ethnics?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 03:58
Originally posted by Paradigm of Humanity Paradigm of Humanity wrote:

More philosophy Smile I won't be necessarily get involved though.


Alright. But you won't be sitting on the fence if i catch you. Even if i have to, 'll drag you down from there, even if you're kicking and screaming. Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 04:01
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

My favorite topic is comparative history. I would like to discuse what makes societies to evolve, and in the process I like to contrast the parallel evolution of Eurasian vs American civilizations. For instance, how come both in America and in the New World evolved the concept of zero, there was invented the game Parchesi, why both in Alexandria and ancient Peru there were invented the hydraulic toys, and why the wheel that was known both in Mesopotamia and Mexico, only in the first region lead to the development of chariots.


Why didn't i see that one coming. Big smile I'm also kind of surprised that you wouldn't be interested in seeing more discussions on Science Fiction history.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 04:13
Originally posted by toyomotor toyomotor wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

What discussion topics does our community members wish to see more of?

Please share your opinions.

Thanks,
Panther


Personally, I'm happy with the topics that are being posted.

Members should feel free, imo, to post items that are inclusive, that is they provide and opportunity for discussion, rather than make bland, immutable statements.


Sure. I feel the same way that you do. I was just wondering if there was some particular historical niche here on the site that wasn't being scratched. And if so, maybe we all can play our part in opening more threads towards this effort in making this beautiful site of ours continually viable, competitive and as always, interesting.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 04:16
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I agree. I want to discuss historical topics.


Cheeky LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 2014 at 04:28
As for myself, i've developed an interest lately in liking too see more discussions on the centuries  of 18th, 19th and 20th.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 00:30
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:


Why didn't i see that one coming. Big smile I'm also kind of surprised that you wouldn't be interested in seeing more discussions on Science Fiction history.


If for that you mean History of Science Fiction, I am willing to discuss it. Actually, I am sort of an expert on that topic.

What I don't stand is pseudo-historical fantasies, such as Eastern Islanders moved moais with mind power alone Confused, or that Ancient Hebrew colonized the Americas, as Mormons say Rolling on the floor....  Otherwise, I like that discuss Philosophy of History, at the style of Toynbee (a personal idol).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pinguin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 00:32
Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I agree. I want to discuss historical topics.


Cheeky LOL


What's the joke, Mod? I bet you don't read my post or you doesn't interpret them correctly. Please be clear.  Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Panther Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Nov 2014 at 05:15
Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

Originally posted by Panther Panther wrote:

Originally posted by pinguin pinguin wrote:

I agree. I want to discuss historical topics.


Cheeky LOL


What's the joke, Mod? I bet you don't read my post or you doesn't interpret them correctly. Please be clear.  Ouch


Sorry. You had inadvertently made a comment that appeared to me to be disarmingly cheeky.  It's clear to me now that isn't what you were shooting for.


Edited by Panther - 03 Nov 2014 at 05:19
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