| FORUM | ARCHIVE |                    | TOTAL QUIZ RESULT |


  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Historical Continuity, Large Systems and Future
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


Welcome stranger, click here to read about some of the great benefits of registering for a free account with us and joining us in our global online community.


Historical Continuity, Large Systems and Future

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
Author
Ramesh V.Naivaruni View Drop Down
Shogun
Shogun
Avatar

Joined: 22 Jul 2011
Location: BANGALORE
Status: Offline
Points: 246
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ramesh V.Naivaruni Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Historical Continuity, Large Systems and Future
    Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 19:54
In ICC or other forum of the world the rules are framed in such a way that it is always pro-developed and hence other developing countries are little less optimistic in entering into such forums.
RAMESH.V.NAIVARUN
BANGALORE
INDIA
rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
email rameshnaivaruni@yahoo.com
blog:Http.Indiandemocracy in mousetrap
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2011 at 08:54
I am increasingly of opinion that people such as myself and others below who have reached similar conclusions that China is going to rule the world, soon, such prophets of doom and their rhetoric will make no difference to policy makers in the US and there is no way to prevent this from happening, mainly because people are who they are and what they are because of long history and it is not possible to change one person or a group or a nation overnight or in a few years, so people will remain asleep and the inevitable is going to happen:

http://www.piie.com/publications/papers/paper.cfm?ResearchID=1913
The Inevitable Superpower: Why China's Dominance Is a Sure Thing
by Arvind Subramanian, Peterson Institute for International Economics
Article in Foreign Affairs, Volume 90, Number 5, September/October 2011.
August 23, 2011
© Foreign Affairs. Reposted with permission.
Arvind Subramanian is senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics and at the Center for Global Development. This article is adapted from his book Eclipse: Living in the Shadow of China's Economic Dominance (2011).
http://www.piie.com/eclipse.cfm

http://www.amazon.com/When-China-Rules-World-ebook/dp/B002SZUDI4/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1315600368&sr=1-1
When China Rules the World: The End of the Western World and the Birth of a New Global Order [Kindle Edition]
Martin Jacques
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imhUmLtlZpw

A comparison of the rise of China and India:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/differing-strengths-of-india-and-china-make-a-quinella-a-smart-bet-20110909-1k1rw.html
Differing strengths of India and China make a quinella a smart bet
William Pesek
September 10, 2011

So for those who care and want to protect their future in such a world, must take heed. I guess I see now why some would want to stick with the stronger horse for their future. I think I understand a little better the motivation behind such sentiments than I used to.



Edited by eventhorizon - 10 Sep 2011 at 16:42
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2011 at 09:15
Considering the poor performance of the US:
- the over reaction after 9/11
- the trillions spent on TSA and two wars
- several hundred thousand collateral damage in the wars which permanently alienates a section of humanity
- partisan bickering stage managed by the elite to create smoke screen and then steal billions from treasury and the economy, while the country looses out in the greater economic war to China and India

Because of the above, it would be fair for other countries and regions:

- not to put all eggs on one basket
- not depend on the US led West anymore and
- look forward to the emergence of a Chinese and Indian led world

But even in that situation, the regional Unions will become even more relevant for self protection, although it will be difficult to achieve unity of purpose for these Unions, as China and India will be meddling to undo these efforts. So time is of essence to make them happen before China and India become more powerful and resourceful, which will increase their reach and capability and thus enable them to shape events in their favor.

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2011 at 21:13
GWOT is a diversion from the real economic threat coming from the direction of large systems, no Muslim country can compete economically with US, EU or even Russia. When the game has been exposed, then suddenly there is talk of the need for mutual co-existence, multi culti etc. from the usual suspects. What does this mean then, I think it means we are right on target.

Can we take any chances, based on empty promises, essentially banking on the good sense, judgement and benevolence of some very large group of human beings who has suddenly become rich and powerful lately? Why does it smell like an oxymoron?
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2011 at 10:32
On modeling of human societies or eco systems based on electronic circuits with feedback loops or cybernetics or geodesic domes, as is described in some of the video's above, plainly these are preposterous ideas, because:

- any mammal brain that processes color video in real time, do pattern recognition, coordinate motor movement, and in case of higher animals such as humans or chimpanzee who have some level of linguistic abilities, the amount of processing power in these massively parallel bio-molecular computing machines, is so huge that not even the most powerful super computer today reach the level of a single human or chimpanzee brain. Lesser animals or plants have less complex systems in their anatomy.

- what this means is that our current computing resource is not anywhere near the ability we need for modeling such complex systems, which is also true for eco-system or the bio-sphere, as that system is a super-set of not just human-society, but the flora, fauna and other relevant systems, such as the climate/weather system.

- in short, it can be concluded that these complex systems or combination of systems, for the time being, are beyond the reach of modeling, in any reasonable fashion. The best we can hope for is modeling of ants and ant colonies for the time being and see if we can get some level of understanding of this modeling business. But even the lowly ant and its colony will not be that easy or simple to model, so this apparently smaller and more reasonable target will remain an insurmountable mountain to conquer, for many decades it seems.

Some attempts at ant colony modeling:
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/complexity/models/antcolonies/
http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/complexity/models/antcolonies/page9.html



Edited by eventhorizon - 18 Aug 2011 at 11:41
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2011 at 06:45
Originally posted by gcle2003 gcle2003 wrote:

Originally posted by eventhorizon eventhorizon wrote:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini41/English
Is Capitalism Doomed?
Nouriel Roubini
2011-08-15
Quote So Karl Marx, it seems, was partly right in arguing that globalization, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labor to capital could lead capitalism to self-destruct (though his view that socialism would be better has proven wrong).
Well no, communism and capitalism have been shown not to work. Capitalism first after 1929 and then communism in the '80s. Socialism - government manipulation of the private marketplace for the benefit of the majority - so far hasn't failed anywhere economically though it has run into trouble politically as vested interests preach against it.


Definitely agree, unbridled capitalism, Robber Baron style, caused the failures of 1929 Great Depression and the 2008 Great Recession (continuing on to present) while Democratic Socialism worked after introduction of New Deal (Social Security & Medicare) in the US and the welfare state economic systems in EU countries post WW II. Although many people are claiming, even Nouriel Roubini above, that EU safety net policies were too generous and have caused the debt crisis, my feeling is that although efficiency could be improved in some safety net benefit structure, so the difference between working salary and unemployment benefit is much higher than it is now, which would lead more people to look for work more aggressively rather than sitting on their behind and live on dole - the main and most important factor behind the debt crisis was not excessive social spending, but it was rather a function of the peculiarity of EU transition process, which we discussed before in the Euro Economy thread.

The biggest problem seems to be is that with introduction of new technologies and new ideas, the elite tend to take advantage of them faster and hijack the democracy, through subversion of the political class and judiciary, while people play catch up and eventually take back control of politics and govt., or at least try to unsuccessfully.

If you look at the video's above, which you may have already seen before, a very peculiar thing stands out. Ayn Rand and her radical anti-religious philosophy of Objectivism, devoid of any morality, but selfish individual greed, seems to be at the heart of current anti-Tax and small govt. craze of the Tea Party and Conservative Republicans. But the funniest thing is that they have combined this idea with the Neocon idea of using religion in politics, so the effect is that now the Religious Right is now spouting Ayn Randian ideas, which are absolute contradiction in terms. It seems funny and ironic, but the result is  anything but funny.

I think I see an Achiles Heel of the Republican Party in this basic and fundamental contradiction, because Religion (specially Christianity of any denomination) is all about taking care of the sick, poor and the disadvantaged, it can never reconcile with godless Randian libertarianism ,whose origin is in Russian intellectual movement as a reaction to the Bolshevik communism/socialism. This movement picked up the opposite of socialism/communism which is individualism, but it was still a god less selfish pursuit of happiness driven by human base instincts such as greed and sensual pleasure, and diametrically opposed to virtues such as altruism and collective well being, promoted by most religion based morality. Atheism was in their bones, if I am allowed to say that, just as it was for the communists:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayn_Rand
Quote You have heard no concepts of morality but the mystical or the social. ... For centuries, the battle of morality was fought between those who claimed that your life belongs to God and those who claimed that it belongs to your neighbors–between those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of ghosts in heaven and those who preached that the good is self-sacrifice for the sake of incompetents on earth. And no one came to say that your life belongs to you and that the good is to live it. - John Galt, in Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand


Neocon led Republicans who are following Leo Strauss's idea, that the masses need to be ruled and led, united under noble, useful and beautiful myths and lies, drilled into them through the propaganda of the media and demagogues talking point speeches, successfully combined these two seemingly contradicting elements of thoughts, Randian individualism and Social Conservatism of Religious Right aka Moral Majority.

What I am proposing (as mentioned in my previous long post) is that the Democratic Party needs to woo back the Religious Right or cultivate its own religious wing, so it can try to take over the Social Conservative agenda, with an emphasis on love and compassion for the poor and disadvantaged (read safety net and social spending such as education/training) and thus get a good chunk of the moderates, independents as well as the Religious/social/cultural conservatives, even at the expense of the social liberal Feminist(abortion rights)/LGBT groups. This way we can put the cross hair on the Randian radical small-govt. anti-tax-the-rich crowd and separate them from the Religious conservatives. This beautifully unites the socially conservative poor Blacks and Hispanics with the white conservative working/middle class and take them away from the clutches of the conman Neocon led anti-tax, small govt. Republicans. There has to be aggressive polarization, even class war fare style, to take the political control from the elite, back at the hand of the people. Fire must be played with fire, in my opinion.

This whole movement towards social conservatism for the Democratic Party, also jibes beautifully with the entire concept of Historical Continuity, developed in this thread, which I consider as a positive and beneficial asset for society, as it increases cohesion and reduces disruption, as long as it does not become too reactionary and thus work against adoption of new ideas and innovations in science and technology.


Edited by eventhorizon - 18 Aug 2011 at 07:06
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 22:46
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis
The following are BBC documentaries produced by Adam Curtis. They are available in DVD form here:
http://catalog.kpfk.org/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=KPC&Category_Code=Z
http://www.kpfk.org/

Financial crisis, bubbles and the role of computer:
All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace Part One Love and Power
1-2 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
1-3 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
1-4 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace
1 5 All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace

Balance of nature, feedback systems and dependence on simplistic cybernetic/electronic models:
All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace - 2 - The Use and Abuse of Vegetational Concepts
(caution: not appropriate for children)

About Neocons, Radical Islamists and role of religion in politics:
Power Of Nightmares 1of6
Power Of Nightmares 2of6
Power Of Nightmares 3of6
Power Of Nightmares 4of6
Power Of Nightmares 5of6
Power Of Nightmares 6of6



Edited by eventhorizon - 18 Aug 2011 at 05:13
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 22:45
Originally posted by eventhorizon eventhorizon wrote:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini41/English
Is Capitalism Doomed?
Nouriel Roubini
2011-08-15
[QUOTE]So Karl Marx, it seems, was partly right in arguing that globalization, financial intermediation run amok, and redistribution of income and wealth from labor to capital could lead capitalism to self-destruct (though his view that socialism would be better has proven wrong).
Well no, communism and capitalism have been shown not to work. Capitalism first after 1929 and then communism in the '80s. Socialism - government manipulation of the private marketplace for the benefit of the majority - so far hasn't failed anywhere economically though it has run into trouble politically as vested interests preach against it.
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Aug 2011 at 14:40
http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/roubini41/English
Is Capitalism Doomed?
Nouriel Roubini
2011-08-15

Quote To enable market-oriented economies to operate as they should and can, we need to return to the right balance between markets and provision of public goods. That means moving away from both the Anglo-Saxon model of laissez-faire and voodoo economics and the continental European model of deficit-driven welfare states. Both are broken.

The right balance today requires creating jobs partly through additional fiscal stimulus aimed at productive infrastructure investment. It also requires more progressive taxation; more short-term fiscal stimulus with medium- and long-term fiscal discipline; lender-of-last-resort support by monetary authorities to prevent ruinous runs on banks; reduction of the debt burden for insolvent households and other distressed economic agents; and stricter supervision and regulation of a financial system run amok; breaking up too-big-to-fail banks and oligopolistic trusts.

Over time, advanced economies will need to invest in human capital, skills and social safety nets to increase productivity and enable workers to compete, be flexible and thrive in a globalized economy. The alternative is – like in the 1930s - unending stagnation, depression, currency and trade wars, capital controls, financial crisis, sovereign insolvencies, and massive social and political instability.

Nouriel Roubini is Chairman of Roubini Global Economics, Professor of Economics at the Stern School of Business, New York University, and co-author of the book Crisis Economics.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2011.
www.project-syndicate.org
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2011 at 09:31
Graham, thanks for the comments. I posted the whole article as an exception, because I thought it was too interesting, specially the comments, to not display in full, as many are probably not aware that there is this view also in the US and its not so uncommon. If you want me to keep just the link and remove the body of the article and comments, please let me know.

The comments of war veteran 99er's (unemployed people who have already run out of 99 weeks of unemployment insurance) was revealing, I thought.

I think all civilized countries of the world should join the ICC, as I believe the majority of any civilized country would never willingly want to commit massacres or any kind of crimes against humanity. More often than not, it is the elite who are sometimes fooling the masses into unwittingly committing some unfortunate crimes and atrocities. Becoming a part of and signatory of ICC will make it easier to isolate the countries that has not reached this level of civilization. If the USofA is the leader of the free world, the champion of human rights, it needs to take a lead on this ICC issue, not a back seat, and I commend the EU for taking the lead on this.

A few comments about this thread, it has been a process of discovery and exploration. I am a little preplexed at the conclusions reached and the road map recommended as a result. On first look, a casual observer may even make the mistake of thinking that it must be coming from a far right anti immigration crowd like the famous (Dr.) David Duke, for example, or at least parts of it may seem like that. Will it still be acceptable as a road map for Blacks, Mestizo's and whites in the US to unite in a common cause and take back their democracy, even if such a strange theory was promoted by a complete outsider, lets say an extra terrestrial alien, hypothetically speaking of course. And what about the Chinese and Indians who are to be isolated and given the last preference in trade, to prevent their rise, till the last, after all other people have sufficiently risen, is that something sane people will accept as a necessary evil?

Of course, it is all building castles in the air, a way to keep an idle mind engaged, and there is a snow ball's chance in hell, that anyone in the real world, will take such ideas seriously. But I keep wondering, what will happen if such ideas are independently arrived at from other diverse sources, as I already see parts of it happening, in bits and pieces, here and there, it seems.



Edited by eventhorizon - 15 Aug 2011 at 09:37
Back to Top
gcle2003 View Drop Down
WorldHistoria Master
WorldHistoria Master
Avatar
PM Honorary Member

Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Location: Luxembourg
Status: Offline
Points: 13238
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gcle2003 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 23:52
With regarrd to breaching rules, the only thing I can see is that it's generally prefereble not to quote the whole of a long document that can be linked to. Makes it easier to read the thread is all.
 
Bringing in a few facts about the International Criminal Court.
 
1) It was only set up in July 2002, and therefore has no jurisdiction over any acts committed before that.
 
2) It is only binding n states that have ratified it.
 
3) 44 UN member states have not done so and therefore are not subject to its juridiction.
 
4) They include Libya, the US, Russia, China, India, Pakistan and Israel.
 
So yes I have some difficulty in seeing how the court has jurisdiction over Gadaffi, but the case was referred to it by the UN Security Council, which may give it legitimacy. Interesting to see any reaction from the US which is vehemently (both parties) against ratifying the court.
 
 


Edited by gcle2003 - 14 Aug 2011 at 23:55
Citizen of Ankh-Morpork.

Never believe anything until it has been officially denied - Sir Humphrey Appleby, 1984.

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 23:04
Disclaimer: The following is not my personal opinion or the opinion of this website
To admins: Please feel free to delete, if it is violating any forum rules
http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/gaddafi-obama-bush-cheney-rumsfeld-all-war-criminals/3760
Quote Gaddafi, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld – All War Criminals
Posted on May 5, 2011 by Rick Bronson

It is being reported that Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi will be indicted for war crimes by the International Criminal Court on charges that could include unlawful detention, torture, persecution and murder.  I would like to understand how this International Court works and who decides who will be prosecuted and who will not. 

George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld falsified evidence that was used as cause for invading Afghanistan and Iraq.  In Iraq hundreds of thousands of innocent women and children were literally murdered in the most heinous fashion imaginable.   And the international criminals who perpetrated these crimes walk about openly among us.

This brings us to the death of Bin Laden.  As Obama has already violated international law by invading Libya without cause and committed war crimes in killing Gaddafi’s grandchildren, one would have to ask how Gaddafi is being distinguished as a criminal and Obama is not.  You see they want to legitimize Obama’s actions and they figure they might as well take care of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld while they are at it. 

Let us look at what happened in Pakistan.  Once again, Obama sent an invasion force into a foreign country to make war, in violation of not only our Constitution but international law.  Why?  Because it was an opportunity to make it acceptable for what he had done in Libya. 

When the news came out about the murdered little children the American people started looking at one another and judging the actions their country was taking in their names.  So they bring the hated Bin Laden out of deep freeze and put on a stage play wherein they killed the terrible terrorist.  Of course they violated international law in doing so, but the American people were no longer looking at each other in judgment, but rather were praising the unlawful act.

President Obama cannot order any person to death without a due process of law.  This is not only U.S. law but it is international law.  But the American people, in accepting the violations because they supposedly resulted in the death of Bin Laden, have made legitimate the murder of the three little children in Libya.  You see if it is acceptable to go into one country and assassinate a person, it is acceptable to do so in another.

It may be acceptable for some of the American people, but it is still illegal and morally reprehensible. 

And that is not all.  They took it a step further.  As Gaddafi is to be charged with torture, they also had to clean up their hypocrisy in that arena.  That is why you have the propagandists coming out and saying that finding Bin Laden was a direct result of the torture conducted at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba under the direction of Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld.  Now the American people are supposed to say torture is good and acceptable because it resulted in getting Bin Laden. 

People remember, justice is a double edged sword, it cuts both ways.  So now when some country tortures one of our soldiers to get information they deem necessary to get someone the people in their country considers to be a bad guy; well you know what, we just have to accept it, because we have set the standard. 

This whole Bin Laden thing is nothing more than a smorgasbord of lies wherein the American people are expected to pick and choose whatever elements it takes to justify illegal invasion, executive ordered murder, and torture as acceptable to them as individuals.

God let the people see they are selling their souls.

11 Responses to Gaddafi, Obama, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld – All War Criminals
Will says:
May 5, 2011 at 9:25 am
I can live in two different worlds, one where Bin Laden is still alive and commiting mass acts of genocide on innocents, or one where he isn’t doing that. Call me crazy for choosing the latter?
Reply
brian s says:
May 5, 2011 at 10:32 am
hey will i have been saying this for the last 9 years these @#$%^&s have no one govering them there rich with power the whole bush family are a bunch of criminals and there good friends cheney and rumsfeld where are they now living high on the hog laughing at all of us the bush leaves office and gets a free 2 million dollar addition put on his estate guess who paid for that the tax payers.the bush family is cornering the fresh water stock with t bone pickens and dealing with china behind are backspretty soon were going to be fighting over water thought i let you know that there is no hope for us until someone start the revolution i would love to start one but two many people are scared the goverment has big plans for us i believe they are going to drop a plague on us or round us up and put us in concentration camps.people like me that speak out there going to come for us first the conspiracy’s are all abought to come to truth another crash is coming you have any money get it out of the bank because there going to take it and say deal with it goodluck fellow 99ers
Reply
Clark kent says:
May 5, 2011 at 11:48 am
Over my dead body, brother. I fought for my countrymen 43 years ago, and I’ll do it again.
Reply
brian s says:
May 5, 2011 at 12:15 pm
hey clark i have a good friend who’s 81 now fought in korea and the goverment doesn’t help he barely surviving on his pension i talk to him once a week he moved down to virginia figuring he would get the help veterans administration and they tell him to wait in line it’s really sad i think abought my grandfather who fought in world war 2 and my own father that was in veitnam they both got sh*t but mental anguish because of that i never enlisted i will fight on my own soil but not on someone elses i really hope there treating you right and i hope you fared well lets hope china doesn’t invade us they could take us out in a minute and the reason i say that any thing happens in this country it’s lacks a dazy abought any thing on this continent
Reply
Clark kent says:
May 5, 2011 at 12:33 pm
We could nuke China for a week, and probably still not kill all of them. Let’
s hope it never comes to that. War sucks !
Reply
brian s says:
May 5, 2011 at 12:51 pm
i here you if you think abought if they didn’t keep all are service men in war unemployment would be 10 times worse that’s the sad reality that is whats kept this world going war war without it we would be bored
Reply
handle says:
May 5, 2011 at 2:19 pm
I appreciate your smart comments really. But the twits who commented against this article probably aren’t smart enough to understand what you’re trying to say.
brian s says:
May 6, 2011 at 9:16 am
handle i know my comments maybe off the wall after my last three years of hell and seeing all the wrongs get rewarded and the people that do right get punished im beyong angry with this country speaking for myself i feel alone in my thoughts i have to vent and hope some of you are aware of the horrors to come lost it all.i cant even get a job in the supermarket it’s pathetic been an electrician for twenty years no work and no hope.so i know my ramblings may stray away from the actual title
J. K. Jones says:
May 5, 2011 at 5:40 pm
I truely believe that Bushes (the whole family), Chaney and the rest of that administration should go on trial for their crimes. They lived as criminals, protected by the powerful. I have watched these people and others like them closely since I was a young Airman during Vietnam War.
Growing up, like many Americans, I watched many of my family members suffer from their service from the First World War through Vietnam. Some wounded mentally, and phically. Then be victumized by corrupt politicians. My family and I never believed in America right or wrong. You can never make the world a better place I serving evil. I truely love my country for the goodness that I have seen and lived with. But I am ashamed of the Evil I have seen done by some of our leaders.

Now I am watching our country descend into the caos of self destruction that so many civilizations suffered. I see only one solution to this situation, and that is – each person must struggle to become the best person they can become. I belive you have to ask yourself what is the best a person can be, then spend your life trying to become that. Ulitmately, Truth, Justicce, Mercy, Kindlyness towards each other is our only hope – the world’s only hope. This along with the ability to think for yourself is paramount.We have to visualize the best of these virtues and struggle to become that. Along with learning the skills of consultatuon and listening without self projection.
Americans and the peoples of the world need to become the seekers of absolute truth.
American Horse
Reply
Mark Schumacher says:
May 5, 2011 at 7:11 pm
Dick Cheney is a piece of garbage. And then some.

http://fromthetrenchesworldreport.com/tricky-dick-cheney-flirts-with-prison/938
Reply
Lucifer says:
May 6, 2011 at 4:00 am
Obama is following international law. The US is the Zionist world police man. International law is an oxymoron.
Reply

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 21:24
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/witness/2011/08/2011810113949471720.html
Africa Rising
The extraordinary story of how a large rural area of Ethiopia is taking itself out of poverty.
Witness Last Modified: 10 Aug 2011 15:12

An inspiring story of how a quarter of a million people lifted themselves out of poverty through self help.
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 18:29
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/08/201181112111261161.html
The manufacturing imperative
Despite the rise of service based economies, manufacturing remains an integral part of success.
Dani Rodrik Last Modified: 13 Aug 2011 09:48
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2011 at 11:28
http://www.salon.com/news/china/index.html?story=/news/feature/2011/08/13/sino_us_stephen_glain
The Pentagon's new China war plan
Despite budget woes, the military is preparing for a conflict with our biggest rival -- and we should be worried
BY STEPHEN GLAIN
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Aug 2011 at 07:27
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/mccain-won-t-apologize-calling-tea-partiers-hobbits-173115794.html
Quote Constituent: "What I'm here to do is ask you for your apology."
McCain: "What apology is in order?"
Constituent: "Because that was very clumsy of you"
McCain: "Was there anything wrong with what I said?"
Constituent: "Are you saying you're not apologizing?"
McCain: "I don't know what to apologize for."
Heard in the back: "For calling tea partiers hobbits!"
McCain: "What I said was true. It's unrealistic and unfair to the American people to tell them that we have to pass a balanced-budget amendment to the Constitution before we would act. If anyone misunderstood that than(sic) of course I would apologize. ... But it's not my fault if they misunderstood. ... I am sorry if I was misunderstood. But I am not sorry for what I said. Why should I if it was a fact?"

Priceless
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2011 at 17:46
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44082979/ns/world_news-asia_pacific/
China launches sea trials of its first carrier
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN


Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Aug 2011 at 07:46
Syria's Bashar Al Assad, is not alone, he is part of the Global elite, that does not treat us human beings as their equal, so it does not matter that we literally become cannon fodder or anti aircraft fodder or machine gun fodder. They seem unperturbed, wearing their tailored suits and ties, carefully brushed hair, just an epitome of neatness, while some of their sycophants clap in admiration, from what seems like lushly decorated assembly halls to show to the world that they are credible and professional and they know what they are doing. Of course, they know exactly what they are doing, when they turn off power and 8 premature babies die in incubators.

And the joker diplomats from BRIC nations, come apleading, please please stop this violence, it is just too much for the sanity of our govt. and people to continue to support this, it just looks bad on us on world stage. You cannot do this to us, after all we have done for you and continue to do, stopping UN security council action on your country.
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 21:17
The fault lines that exist in these two large systems are:

- China: the three Autonomous regions, Inner Mongolia is pretty much a lost cause, as there are 90% Han living there, but Xinjiang and Tibet are still at play. Associated groups need to make efforts to enrich and empower the minorities in all three regions, possibly by giving asylum in their countries

- India: Kashmir, North East Christian tribal people, an indigenous Maoist communist insurgency and the biggest of all is the 150-200 million Muslims. Again associated groups need to enrich and empower these minorities in their respective regions and if possible by giving asylum in their countries

When and if they get aggressive and start terrorizing their neighborhood, crossing some threshold level, then there should be efforts to bring them under control, using the above fault lines, tightening the screws, if you will.



Edited by eventhorizon - 09 Aug 2011 at 21:36
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 20:25
http://www.deathbychina.com/

I don't agree with the economics of Peter Navarro and Greg Autry, but they accurately picked up China as the greatest threat for the US in the foreseeable future. They, however, have no clue why China became such a threat, which I have explained in detail in this thread. The factors that make China a threat, the same factors will make India the next big threat for the US, after China.

The other mistake they make is that they vilify the Chinese communist party, but the fact is, I would like China to have a communist one party system for as long as possible, because it will continue to screw up China and not get things right, a democracy in China with a viable multi party system, though a temporary set back for them, will make China much more powerful and dangerous. Since there is a functioning democracy in India, it makes India more stable and failure proof, which makes it that much more dangerous in the long run.

They also do not provide a comprehensive solution on how to confront this twin threat, which I have done in a post above.

They don't have kind words for Kissinger. Indeed I think I can agree that he is probably a War Criminal as well as an idiot of first order, who has put the US in a situation where it is today. All this however is on hindsight. If Soviet Union, a bungling failing system would take over China, it would have been that much better, as with its fall, both might have fell apart at the same time, which would probably give us the independence of Xinjiang, Tibet and possibly even Inner Mongolia, if not for Kissinger and his fascination for Chinese history and culture and his efforts to open up China to the world. The Chinese I am sure have a lot to thank this man and should put him up on a pedestal and worship him, like Chairman Mao. The following video called Trial of Henry Kissinger by Christopher Hitchens, may shed some more light:

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Aug 2011 at 17:57
As time passes, the above plan will become more and more relevant, every passing year. But then the premise for the above projection could turn out to be wrong, so I will make corrections as time passes. For now, this is how it looks.

Not to generalize, but as people of both groups H and I aspire for the top super power status of the world and someday hope to rule the planet, this ambition will affect more and more of the expatriate community of these regions, living in areas within the associated groups, making their loyalty to the associated groups goals and plans questionable. So an increasing number of people like these will suffer from divided loyalties. It is also important to note that the desire to make their home region a super power surpassing the US, is more of a burning ambition among the expatriates of these regions, as they are exposed to the world much more than the people who run the show in these countries.


Edited by eventhorizon - 09 Aug 2011 at 18:00
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 2011 at 05:40
The following post is a comprehensive answer to a concern raised by Pikeshot in Debt Ceiling thread about how to turn around the situation we are currently in created by the global financial and business elite led by the elite in the US, so my personal thanks and appreciation to him for getting me started in this line of thought while looking for a solution. Also I would like to thank this website where I am able to present my ideas and also to all forum members who I have been able to learn from and share ideas with. So here goes:

In an earlier post we have discussed the matter of why China and India with their billion plus populations present a clear and present potential existential risk (if it is not yet a threat) for the planet. For the last several centuries people of European origin have taken the lead, while Muslim power centers have fallen apart, China was a power, but it never quite asserted itself in the global scene.

If we look at the time line since the advent of Industrial age, several things become clear, Britain and France both industrialized early and had large overseas empires and populations within these empires. Germany and Japan soon became industrialized and both of these nations had a native population probably larger than Great Britain or France. Soon they became competing powers. Bolshevik take over of Romanov empire, formation of Soviet Union, its drive for industrialization brought another sizable nation as a great power in the international stage.

In WWII, Germany gave a valiant fight, but it lost to a bigger, but less industrialized Soviet Union. Japan also gave its best, but it also lost out to a much bigger and slightly more technologically advanced USA. Britain and France after the loss of their colonial possessions and the loss of their former imperial size, no longer remained great powers.

So in all these goings on, one factor shines through, that when human beings are pushed to a corner, they will fight for survival with everything they have got, and when everything else is equal, the size of a nation will make a big difference in who will win in the event of a conflict.

These factors, I believe, has not been adequately analyzed or studied by national strategists, or may be they have been, but remains top secret and not known to the public. But I would argue that because of a lack of thinking in planetary scale about what is happening to the power dynamics and balance of power between nations, our business and foreign policy elites, are failing to see the big picture and the future implications of their collective current actions.

As things stand today, people are complacent that oh, these poor Chinese, and these half fed Indians, how will they become rulers of the world, unfortunately it is the result of centuries of racial prejudice and arrogance that is clouding the thinking even for the best of thinkers, it is my humble opinion. Never underestimate an adversary, it is always best to know as much about them as possible and who best knows them than their cousins and their neighbors, who had been dealing with them for thousands and thousands of years.

If we continue this current policy of free trade and neo-liberalism (which has nothing to do with liberalism, but everything to do with trade liberalization) in the interest of the global business elite and their enrichment, it is my opinion, that it will bring the world to precipice. Because for the first time it will transfer global leadership and power centers to China and India from the West. Some people may argue, why is that a problem. I will then fall back on my theory of Historical Continuity, that it is what could be called, not a smooth transition, but a perfectly disruptive transition, which will not bode well for the planet. It is my hope that it will not happen, as it may increase the likelihood of Nuclear Standoff with Hydrogen bombs (1000 times more powerful than Hiroshima bombs I have heard, where a Hiroshima size bomb is used as a detonator of these more advanced bombs). I would also argue that societies such as Han Chinese and Hindu Indians have been for centuries suffered under the yoke of Mongol, Manchu and Muslim rules. They have just made the transition from agrarian subsistence farming societies to advanced industrial countries, in case of India, it is just starting and they are still going through this transition, whereas China has almost completed this transition. Societies such as these, I would argue are not in a position to play great power roles or planetary leadership roles (you can take a vote among global population excluding those in China and India and see the result, may be pew will come forward with this project) and the chances of making mistakes by them are far greater than less.

So it will be in Humanity’s greater interest (which includes Chinese and Indians), that we seek a more sustainable road map for a smooth transition of the global power scene. The first step in this direction, I believe will be to scrap GATT/WTO based free trade and make trade an integral part of our global power transition scheme. I can hear the yeah shout from the anti-globalization crowd. What I propose is the following new global security and trade architecture:

A)West: North America, EU, Eastern EU (Russia+Ukraine+Belarus+Georgia+Armenia), Oceania and Israel (lead by US, EU and Russia)

B)New East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere (East Asian Union): Japan, Korea, ASEAN 10 and Bangladesh (led by Japan, Korea, Indonesia and Vietnam)

C)Central Asian Union: Turkey, Azerbaijan (a land bridge is needed via Armenia), 7 stan’s and Mongolia (needs a land bridge to Kazakhstan via Russia or if Russia provides a land bridge and a port on Pacific side, Mongolia will have the choice to become a part of East Asian Union, group b) (led by Turkey, Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan and Pakistan)

D)African Union (led by Egypt, Ethiopia, Nigeria and South Africa)

E)Latin American Union (led by Brazil, Mexico and Argentina)

F)GCC+Syria+Jordan+Yemen+Lebanon (led by Saudi Arabia)

G)Iran, Iraq (led by Iran)

H)India, Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka

I)China, Taiwan, North Korea

The rationale behind this security and trade architecture is to ensure the Global supremacy of group A, while this supremacy ensures the security and consolidation of groups B-F/G and to make sure that China and India can not become a competitor for group A, for the foreseeable future. Both China and India are currently using and bribing the wayward and self serving elite and their greed in group A, who in turn are using the corporate media and Republican party as part of their tool box in this subversion effort. While China and India are gaining capital and know how from the West using its business elite, it is also using tech firms in Israel and Russia to gain weapons technology it currently cannot get from the West, because of export restrictions.

A new paradigm will be achieved by creating the above group of nations and keeping them under the Western global security and trade architecture, while excluding China and India from this architecture. This does not mean that China and India will be excluded from trade, but the following rules will be recommended for trade:

- every nation shall be covered by a common security pact between the members of its group, such as today's NATO, so there will a NATO like structure for each of these groups A-F
- all of these groups from A to F (possibly G in the future) will cooperate with each other on security
- group A will lead this set of groups (B-F/G)
- every nation shall have free trade with their group members
- if some item of trade is not available within the group, then it should be sought in associated groups (A-F/G)
- only when an item is not available within the group or within associated groups (A-F/G), the item should then be sought from other countries (G, H or I) and a preference should be given to a more democratic country among them
- if any group decides to not join the associated groups (A-F/G), then that group will loose both security and trade privilege
- visa free travel will be used by countries as before within the the associated groups (A-F/G), and free migration and guest worker programs will be allowed within a particular group. For example, East EU citizens will be allowed by rest of group A to migrate anywhere within this group for replenishing any perceived labor shortages in return for a special arrangement where Russia allows leasing of land and migration by group B and group C countries, with preference given to Russian speaking population in Central Asia, for Eastern Siberia with port access near sea of Japan and land access from Mongolia, to prevent any further migration there from China. Similarly Turkey may continue its visa free travel and work program for Syria and expand it to Iraq to possibly bring these two countries into group C, when conflict subsides in these two countries.

The above rules will mean that group A will lead as the status quo leading group, while groups B, C, D, E and F will be associated groups working under the leadership of group A. For the time being G will remain outside. Countries in groups H and I will not be included in group A led associated groups (A-F/G). When North Korea decides to jump ship from China and unify with South Korea, it will be included in group B. Group G will be allowed to become an associated group under group A, when it agrees to resolve its conflict and differences with group F.

The US of A, as the largest nation in group A will remain the undisputed leader of the global associated groups (A-F/G), till the time when a consolidated and combined EU+Eastern EU is able to become a co-leader. Group H and I will not be allowed to become part of this global associated group, for the foreseeable future, until such times when the associated groups are consolidated and have become ready to defend themselves against the strategic threat from groups H and I.

The breakup of Ottoman into many different countries may have allowed the West to exploit the resources in these countries, but it has also created tremendous instabilities as well, which the world is currently dealing with. Israel is a left over from that legacy. This breakup of Ottoman along with India’s partition in 1947, contributed to the emergence of the phenomenon of “Islamic Terror”. But these threats pale in comparison to the much more existential threat that is taking shape in the countries with billion plus populations, which are industrializing at a fast pace, with full help, aid and connivance of the elite of the West. So while the world is busy with Israel-Palestine conflict and Taliban in Afghanistan, India is actively trying to feed fuel to the fire of Islamophobia along with the Israel lobby and its associated Islamophobic cottage industry. China is keeping aloof from these and trying to side itself more with resource rich Muslim nations, such as Iran, Sudan and making overtures to other Gulf Arab nations as well. India is also being touted as a balancer for China, but what makes anyone think that India will be a more dependable and subservient ally. Because of their size, it is my firm belief, that neither India nor China will be satisfied with a subservient role to the US or the West, their ambition is to become number one and two and rule the world, like USA and the West does today collectively. And in their effort to become number one, they are now taking full advantage of all the turmoil and internecine fights that are taking place on the global stage:

- GWOT, a crusader fight that GWB initiated on Muslim countries such as Afghanistan and Iraq, as a revenge for 9/11 and a deterrence to prevent such attacks in the future, Al Qaeda and Islamic extremism was portrayed as the main existential threat for the West. This has created a tremendous feeling of mistrust and ill feeling between the West and Muslim countries
- Israel-Palestine problem with similar effect as above
- Shia-Sunni conflict in the Middle East

Essentially these are providing the diversions and smoke screens for both China and India to carry on with their agenda to unseat the US and the West as the preeminent global power from world stage, so they can terrorize their neighborhood and make the world a much more inhospitable place in their neighborhood. Even resource rich countries in far away Africa, Central Asia and Latin America are in their target list for resource exploitation in their new global imperial strategy.

So what I am proposing is that, with US, West and Russia as the lead, the remaining smaller countries of the world, get organized into groups and form a tight knit global community of nations, so we can be prepared for this looming threat in our horizon.

If you really want to get a good idea of the nature of the threat, please talk to any knowledgeable individual from any of the neighbor nations of China or India, they will give you a comprehensive and clear idea of what we are dealing with here.

Now lets focus a little on US political scene. How to bring this wayward beast (elite) under control and channel its energy to more productive and patriotic purposes.

The first thing that struck me is the fact that how such a small number of rich folks or elite control such a large number of people, how do they do it, why do they do it and how can this control be taken back by the regular joe in the US. Lets look at income distribution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

In the first table, please look at the last entry at the bottom. 1.5% of the US household makes $250,000 or above, that translates to a population of about 4.5 million people.

Not all of these people are part of the elite, the real elite are probably a small fraction of this group, but we could easily call the above group wealthy and influential and if they are not the elite, most of them are probably the middle managers that manage the affairs of the elite. Now we know there are no practical difference between a household that makes $249,000 and a household that makes $251,000, but for the purpose of this discussion we will call this 1.5% collectively the elite, the controllers and the rest 98.5% the controlled. Some people like to put the breakdown at 2% and 98%, but these are details, the concept is what is important.

Now I should make something clear. If the forum members have followed my earlier posts in this thread, then it should be amply clear that I do not believe in communism and I am not trying to make a manifesto for a looming class warfare. I myself have once played the role of a mini capitalist once, employed people although I no longer engage in that endeavor, while some people I used to know have went on to become fairly big business people. So I understand and appreciate the value of entrepreneurship, drive etc. and how valuable they are to any society. These factors however do not justify the way the elite have become a negative element for much of the societies of the planet, destroying social order, stability in some advanced countries such as the US where they have violated the unwritten social contract and not taking any steps for improvement in other poorer countries where we can see famines, migration, as well as wreaking havoc on the environment, all at the same time.

It is my belief that the elite in the US, in close collaboration with wealthy elites in other countries are largely responsible for much of the dysfunctional system we have on this planet today.

It might be interesting to note that this planetary elite, which includes celebrities, royals, big businessmen, billionaire heirs etc. has become a virtual mini nation by itself. Their life and priorities are indeed very different than us average joe’s, whether we are famine struck in Somalia or poor homeless and hungry in the US with a begging cup standing near a freeway off ramp. These elite hob nob with each other, worry about each other and marry among each other. I would venture to say, they might as well be from a different planet or start system and they consider us earthlings as not one of them, why else would they be so hell bent on fouling up irrevocably our little space ship called earth? Perhaps they have even built escape spaceships when our earth becomes unlivable, just kidding :). Technology is still not there yet, I think, for this to happen, but that does not stop this group of people to carry on, as if there is a way to escape from this planet, when it is all used up and can be thrown away like a dirty rag.

Now that we have a viable road map for future in the form of a new security and trade architecture, as described above, what are the steps we need to take to get us started on this road. I think we should take the following steps:

- explain and convince the business elite that what they are doing now is not in their long term interest, because they are chipping away at the very foundation on which they have built their wealth and business empire. The Chinese and Indians, once they have gotten all they need out of them, will not allow them to be powerful in their land, they will not be trusted as they will trust their own kind, which is their very own Chinese and Indian elite, so our elite should not betray their own people and nation, which is essentially what they are doing now
- I believe a good number can be convinced and brought into the democratic party fold, some among them are intelligent and have some sense of responsibility
- we need to reorganize the democratic party, and find a way to bring back the Southern democrats back into the democratic party, who were lost since the time of Barry Goldwater and Ronald Reagan
- we may need to de-emphasize the influence of LGBT and feminist crowd and move the democratic party closer to Christian conservative and Moral Majority (Bibles and guns), since most are in the 98.5% population group and are dependent on safety net such as Social Security and Medicare. Moving the democratic party towards more social conservative direction will increase the support among Black and Hispanic groups as well. About immigration, we need to draw a line, legalize the existing illegals, but at the same time take tough new measures for newly arrived illegals for housing and employment, so they can never become legal again, but rather given temporary employment visa’s in a guest worker program, even if they arrive here illegally. All these are crowd pleasing measures. The real measures that will bring results for this southern migration problem, will be drawing down the war on drugs, legalizing drugs and thus ending the prohibition era for these substances and then working to get a real tangible border less Latin American Union going with Brazil and Mexico in the lead, so jobs can be created there, so these people do not need to move here
- many of these measures will hopefully bring the following major voting blocks in the democratic party:

                * blacks, hispanics, a good chunk of the old Southern Democrat rural moral majority dependent on medicare and social security, young white liberals, independents, retired seniors in AARP, labor unions

so even if the LGBT and feminist causes are dropped/sidelined, since they will not vote Republican, mostly they will become apathetic but still vote democrat, since someday in the future they may get their causes back, when the situation becomes more favorable

The idea is to convince people that the rich are fooling the rest of us (and themselves as well) and running the country and the world to the ground, and at the same time helping the rise of China and India, so we need to stop them from this self destructive behavior, unless of course they see the light and come back to our patriotic fold.

May be we can finally show that these elite are really Chinese and Indian agents and put Chinese and Indian flags as labels on their party while we take up the US flag as the label of the Democratic party and shout USA, USA, USA


Edited by eventhorizon - 16 Aug 2011 at 09:33
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 2011 at 08:12
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/08/05/the_alec_wars_escalate.html
The ALEC Wars Escalate
By David Weigel
Posted Friday, Aug. 5, 2011, at 3:03 PM EDT

Quote Starting in 2010, the progressive moment has poured more and more resources into understanding and publishing the facts about heretofore-obscure conservative groups. The religious right? That's so 2007. The mission now is exposing the connections of Koch Industries, the origins of libertarian legislation in various unglamorous think tanks, and the corporate sponsors who make it possible. Why now? There are plenty of reasons, and plenty of triggers that no one expected (like Ian Murphy's prank "David Koch" call in Wisconsin). The result: More and more info, packaged for maximum dramatic purpose, about how the think tanks work.

The villain of the last few months is the American Legislative Exchange Council. The Center for Media and Democracy, a lefty think tank in Wisconsin, started publishing ALEC's dummy legislation -- usually available to legislators for free, or non-legislator members for quite a lot of money -- on a catch-all Wiki site. Until last year, it was pretty easy for any media to get access to ALEC conferences to find out what the cutting edge of libertarian thinking was, or scan the program and see who was funding it. ThinkProgress tried to get into this month's conference. No dice.

The TP bloggers publish the conference's lists of sponsors anyway, and really, I don't see the point of ALEC panicking at the sight of flipcams. The big revelation here is that BP is one of the $100,000 donors behind this conference -- in New Orleans! Ironic, but unsurprising. Check out the GOP's list of "jobs bills" being held up by Democrats. Most of the bills that promise immediate job growth are energy deregulation plans, offshore leasing plans, etc. ALEC's funders, priorities and ideas, are totally predictable. The right's succeeded in what they thought the left was doing -- filling brain trusts that schlep legislation to capitols as soon as their candidates win. All that ALEC does by pushing ThinkProgress around is add a veil of secrecy to something we deserve to know.


Comments:

andy80
So TP can't get into their super secret treehouse meeting, meh.
OT, but what bothers me more is the blatant lack of respect for people's intelligence here. Just adding "jobs-creating" in front of whatever legislation you want to push doesn't cut it. But many people only see the headlines, so we end up with jobs-creating energy deregulation, jobs-creating tax cuts, jobs-killing health care...
Can we get some actual "job-creating" job creation bills first? Actually, I'm just expecting for someone to come out any day now and say jobs-creating slavery.

James H
What we should look at here is not necessarily where the money is coming from, but how much money is in play. If this much money can be shook loose to do this much damage, then we should really, really look at the tax code. My conservative friends will throw George Soros into this mix. Great! I agree!
Let's take a look at the Koch Brothers, BP, George Soros, and the other leeches on society for some real "revenue enhancement." And if that drives them out of the country, that would likely be a plus.


Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2011 at 10:35
The following has been posted before, please disregard.

Turkish generals resigned

The anguish of a vanquished empire. As Ottoman slowly started falling behind other European powers, it tried to implement various reforms, but none was successful to reverse the trend. To stem the negative effect of rising nationalism within the borders of Ottoman empire, Secularism was tried in different times:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism_in_Turkey
Ata-Turk’s reforms established Turkish nationalism and Secularism as the founding principle of the Turkish state. After Kemal’s death, the armed forces awarded itself with the responsibility to ensure the continuation of these principles. As was described in posts above, over time something called the Deep State emerged:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state
Ergenekon was a part of this Deep state.

It is also important to note the role the Armed forces played in Turkish politics with various coups and threats:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Armed_Forces

In these secret groups, illicit money making activities such as drug trafficking, gambling, money laundering etc. were common.

In Ata-Turks new Turkey, religion Islam was not abolished, but controlled by the govt. and kept under tight leash. One force that emerged from this controlled environment was the Gulen movement along with some political parties which were more sympathetic to Islam. Both of these strains emerged from the more pious rural and newly urbanized constituents, who were outside of the old urban secular van guards:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClen_movement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_and_Development_Party_%28Turkey%29

After many fits and starts the populist Islamic leaning parties have consolidated under AKP and now seem to dominate Turkish politics and Fetullah Gulen, although exiled to the US, together with their social conservative political ally AKP, now exert increasing influence on Turkish politics and economy. Essentially these two forces are in the process of dismantling their rival the deep state, ergenekon etc. The defeat of the deep state does not however mean that secularism and its supporters are becoming a minority. Mainstream non religious secular parties are still a powerful and viable opposition. All major political parties including AKP believe in the separation of Church/Mosque and state, it is just that the new Islam leaning parties are more tolerant of Islamic expressions and sympathetic to them which they justify as freedom of religion, as opposed to the earlier allergic reaction to anything related to Islam which they claim was akin to militant secularism. This course correction is described here:
http://www.thewashingtonreview.org/articles/islam-ottoman-legacy-and-politics-in-turkey-an-axis-shift.html

The latest incident is an attempt to embarrass the AKP govt. and an attempt to create a crisis, noting that out 3 generals who resigned, two were due to retire next week in the national conference and meeting presided by the Prime Minister where Turkish Army promotions are decided. As Al Jassas already mentioned, Erdogan refused promotion for the accused officers in the Ergenekon case, till the verdicts were reached, which prompted this attempted pseudo crisis. In earlier days, it would be a coup to protect “Secularism”, but now it results in resignation, which shows that the days of Armed forces control and supremacy is over in Turkey.

Here is a quote from a young UK expat living in Turkey, married to a Turkish man:

Quote In Özdere, there is a holiday resort for all the generals, corporates etc of the army's and every weekend it is very difficult to drive past as the roads are full of cars and I mean big posh expensive cars. It took me a while to work out what this holiday park was as its not open to public but its always busy. When I asked xxx he told me it was for the army generals and things then he added a comment that really surprised me as I have never heard him side with AK Party or go against the army but he said that there are too many generals in Turkey lounging around taking all the money while the real soldiers are out there risking their lives every day. So maybe this is a good thing that some of the generals have stepped down and the numbers are being cut but as xxx said only time will tell.


There are two major newspaper/media organizations in Turkey, Zaman is related to Gulen movement whereas Hurriyet is more associated with the secular old guard.

And if I may refer to my little theory, this is one more example of the positive consequences of maintaining Historical Continuity and negative effects of disruption.



Edited by eventhorizon - 03 Aug 2011 at 10:39
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 2011 at 10:34
The following has been posted before, please disregard.

Note to the admin staff, as before I will collect some of my posts in other threads here, as they are relevant to this topic as well.

====================================================
Sino US dance

A nation is like an army, economy is the field of war in times of peace. A bigger nation, even if its malnourished like that of India, or a China even if its not as well equipped like that of the US, can change with time and be a threat. Because the size of the Army always matter in war.

Lets look at the size of the countries of the world:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population

Now if you look at this list, there are only two countries bigger than the US, China and India, both around the same size in population and both around 4 times the size of the US.

Eu may become a country in the future, so it is premature to talk about it now. Even if it becomes a country, even if it includes Russia, it would still be half the size of China or India, in population.

Whenever a developed country like the US, Germany or Israel dances with a big country like China or India, it becomes net loss for the countries with higher income and net gain for the countries with lower income, until the differences in income become smaller and smaller.

Why should the US or EU help in the making of their own strategic competitors and then be defeated by these competitors, and is there a way to avoid it? I have struggled with this question for a long time.

I finally came to the conclusion that people simply fail to see the big picture and fail to consider the options available. No one is bothered to think in this kind of strategic terms, because the country itself (and its more or less true for EU as well, but to a lesser extent) and its political class is serving the billionaires and their goals of earning more billions for their corporations. The nature of the corporation is to maximize profit, if a country is defeated in the process, it is apparently not their concern.

But when a country or set of countries are defeated, then the eco systems that helped these companies succeed, are compromised fatally, because these corporations and their share holders are usually controlled by a particular country, so although there are multi-national corporations, ultimately all corporations are national and they are one of the vital strategic weapons of a nation that determines their rise or fall. I will list some companies and their nationality, all of which are MNC's:

Toyota    Japanese
Samsung   Korean
Huawei    Chinese
Reliance  Indian
Rover-Tata Indian
Jaguar-Tata Indian
Cisco     US
Intel     US
Oracle    US
Microsoft US
Boeing    US
Airbus    EU
Daimler   Germany
BMW       Germany

Why is size so important, many reasons, economies of scale, size of market, political stability, pool of extra-ordinary talent (leaders) etc. Also please consider why US and Soviet Union became two competing superpowers after WW II, the other colonial powers were not just devastated internally, they also lost their colonial possessions or were in the process of doing so, loosing the advantage of size, which left US and Soviet Union the two greatest countries in population. China and India just came out of colonial and imperial domination and their journey had just started as independent entities.

So it was the right strategy for the US to dance with Japan, S Korea, Taiwan, South East Asian countries like Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia, some became spectacular successes, like Japan and then S Korea and Taiwan, but none could eclipse the US.

US engaged with China to defeat the Soviet threat, but it should have disengaged as soon as Soviet Union fell apart in early 1990's.

So the club of developed countries should disengage China now and they should never engage India, no matter how much the corporations salivate for the big markets there. The US also must reach an agreement with EU, Oceania, Japan, S Korea and Israel (who has a habit of selling restricted technology) not to engage China or India. It does not have to be total disengagement, but anything that can be done somewhere else, should be done there, so that their growth level is brought down from 8-10% to 4-5%, at par or less than other smaller countries which are to be engaged.

Instead of engaging bigger nations such as China or India, the developed countries should engage smaller nations from the list who appear below the US. There are plenty of nations with cheaper labor than China in this list to produce what US, EU, Oceania and Israel need, plenty of nations that can provide the back end services cheaper or better than India. This engagement also means that people in these countries will stay where they are and not migrate as much to the developed countries.

There are only few nations in this world that already has the technology, highly developed man power and industrial infrastructure, these must have an agreement and understanding to ensure a stable order for the future of the world.

Thomas Friedman, Ayn Rand and their promoted free market is a recipe for disaster. We know and can see what they bring. We need to control the outcome of our trade and our engagement.

These two nations which are bigger in size  than the US, are a threat not just for the US, but for Japan, Korean peninsula, South East Asia, every nation that are around them or even far away from them in Africa or South America.

Europe has been the colonial master of the planet, the planet does not need another two new neo-colonial masters. Their relative size is a threat that cannot be met by any other way than disengagement, as their size provide them with competitive advantage, which is a threat for all other countries in the world, not just the US, EU, Oceania, Japan, Korean peninsula.

When all other countries reach a sufficient momentum and parity in competitive advantage and can be grouped together in some form or fashion, to counter balance these two large countries, only then they should be engaged again, by the developed countries, so that they can develop and progress without being a threat for other smaller nations in the globe.

I am a small man and just presented some big ideas, please forgive my impudence. Specially I ask forgiveness to people of China and India with whom I have no enmity, who are but fellow human beings. But power imbalance is a recipe for chaos and destruction which should be avoided, and I prefer an orderly evolution of humanity, which is my motivation in presenting these ideas.

================================================
Debt ceiling debate

pikeshot, that is a very good post, the earlier rant was not bad either. I admit I was also ignorant, only vaguely aware and apathetic. I was even supporting Ron Paul at some point, I still have Ron Paul's plastic posters stashed away, that I put up in my front yard, I am ashamed to say. He makes some sensible talk with closing the bases, small govt., less waste and talking against federal reserve and fiat currrency, I think he is sincere and he believes in what he says, but Ayn Rand and Austrian Economics that he follows does not work, its a lie. What opened my eyes was a radio station called kpfk (http://www.kpfk.org), which I listen to during my drive to work and back. They have a lot of liberal and antiwar nonsense, but the way they connect the dots about the American corporations waging a war on American voting public, it is in one word, sublime. Two people I remember more than the rest, are Amy Goodman of Democracy Now and Ian Masters of Background Briefing.

The story goes like this, if I remember correctly, that the greedy Robber Barons who caused the great depression, lost big time to the progressives who introduced the New Deal:

Ever since, US corporations have been planning and plotting how to turn it all back to their advantage again. Some GE Board Directors I think started some conservative think tanks and they found in Reagan a good talker. Reagan originally a democrat and head of the screen actors guild, devolved and got indoctrinated to a hard core conservative while working for GE theater TV show as a well paid talk show host:

Quote For Ronald Reagan, he grew up in one of these small towns in northern Illinois, 12 miles from where I grew up. However, it took a while for those Conservative values to take hold in Reagan. Many people forget that Reagan was originally a Democrat in the 1940s and 1950s. As head of the Screen Actors Guild, Reagan, while a staunch anti-communist, was quite liberal. Things for Reagan changed in the early 1950s. The first event that influenced his shift from the left to the right occurred when Reagan would meet, and marry, actress Nancy Davis. Combined with Reagan’s work for the General Electric Theater TV show, Reagan shifted to the right, an almost libertarian point of view. As part of his duties as host of the show, Reagan would travel across the country and met people at GE plants across America. It was during those tours meeting the middle class that his philosophy began to shift to less government intrusion and lower taxes. In the early 1950s, the tax rate for Americans earning $10,000/year was at 38% (which very few did – the minimum wage was not even a $1/hour). For 8 years, Reagan work for GE actually turned into a political apprenticeship of sorts.

Reagan’s conservative philosophy was rooted in the words of John Winthrop. The famous City” on Hill” from the 1600s defined Reagan’s vision, and version, of conservatism and of America.

“for wee must Consider that wee shall be as a Citty upon a Hill, the eies of all people are uppon us”

When Reagan finally comes to power, charming the public with his plain talk and family values, the onslaught starts in earnest and all that was achieved to reign in the greedy corporations in the New Deal era was lost in last 30 years, so now we are back to square one, that is at the Rober Baron era before the great depression.

I think it is quite clear that corporations rising out of the US and getting fat on the sweat of American worker, has been on a treasonous path, using new media technology like the TV and now the internet effectively, to do things against US National interest. They have not only bought all the politicians (George Carlin: bought and paid for), but now has the majority of SCOTUS in their pocket.

And I agree that the rot and contagion has crossed the pond to the EU, greed is contagious, although EU population is a little more resistant and little more aware and not so easily fooled by the American voting public, I think.

The fundamental problem I believe has nothing to do with liberal or conservative dichotomy, specially on social issues, those are just diversions, the real issue I believe is the nature of corporations and specifically multinational corporations, are they bound by any laws to protect national interest, I think not, not at this point. In their current incarnations, it is perfectly legal for them to hurt US national interest, examples:

- investing in Chinese manufacturing sector, and concentrating all manufacturing in one command and control economy for maximization of profit, but creating a future strategic competitor and threat, which will be immensely costly not just for the US but for its neighbors and the world in general
- investing in Indian software and service sector, and contributing to a rising India, with the same general effect, but to a lesser extent
- whereas not investing as much in high tech capital goods manufacturing items, which Germany is doing and getting fabulous export orders, as a result
- not paying a fair share of carrying the tax burden (reduced from 90-70% to around 15% max) to maintain greater equity of wealth and a more creative and vibrant middle class, which is usually represented by healthy labor unions, as they are in Germany, where they even have positions in board of directors. A healthy, well paid, creative/innovative and empowered work force is the fighting force of the economic war, the foot soldier that make the difference
- encouraging hugely expensive wars for the benefit of Military Industrial complex, and as Dr. G points out, doing a double whammy at the same time by making sure that taxation is not as high as the usual level of war time economy
- using media to run an incessant propaganda to falsely polarize the voting public with non-issues such as the debt-ceiling and subverting the entire political class and the judicial community with money and incentives to drive their own agenda

If the corporations are not strategic weapons like they were for Japanese Zaibatsu's and Korean Chaebol's and probably still are for those two countries, though not as overt, in my opinion, a nation will lose the real mega war without end, which is the economic war. So the corporations can be rightly accused of subversion and treason and called traitors. That is how I see it, looking through my hyper simplification lense. Now there is no conspiracy, but it just works out this way because of a design flaw in the corporations. The corporate motto, instead of maximizing share holder profit, should be to further national interest, which is followed by most Asian corporations and perhaps some European ones like those of Germany, and definitely by Chinese ones like Huawei and Indian ones like Reliance and Tata. Milton Friedman's and Ayn Rand's of the world will disagree, but then they are the ones who brought the US to where it is today. Sorry for so many gross oversimplifications, which I have a penchant for it seems.

And about printing money, of course the US will do it if there is a need. With Euro crashing, the US and its greenback has the world by its unmentionables, it seems. The Chinese, Japanese and other bond/debt holders will not like it a bit, they will complain, may be they will start using dollar less and less and start using their own currencies a bit more, and it will drive home the point, the US still call the shots on this planet. Yes, its highway robbery, but can anyone do anything about it, I think not, because that is the nature of things as they are. Who said life is fair.

====================================

This is because the usual suspects have set up both parties in a way that there is gonna be some fake fights between them like the one we just witnessed, but either way they will get their way. I will talk about the root of this problem and some possible way out in another thread.

The more I see this, the more respect I have for George Carlin, he was definitely the man.

Walking to and fro and mumbling to self "Bought and paid for", "Bought and paid for",........

 



Edited by eventhorizon - 03 Aug 2011 at 10:38
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 09:47
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/07/what-did-red-haired-neanderthals-look-like/

"Recent African origin of modern humans" is now officially on its way to the dust bin of history:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recent_African_origin_of_modern_humans

and in comes the newer more nuanced "Multiregional origin of modern humans hypothesis":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiregional_origin_of_modern_humans

It also means that finally racists of the world will have new ammunition in their hand for racism against Sub-saharan Africans and establish new theories why they never had large empires and never will be able to handle their own affairs with some degree of competency even with an African Union run by them. Perhaps that racism will then extend to all dark skinned people of the world, although all dark skinned people except for Sub-saharan Africans, including Australian aborigines, were found to have Neanderthal genes.



Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Jul 2011 at 09:27
On irony and contradictions from none other than the inimitable George Galloway:

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117181848649939.html

Quote
........................

Such is the turmoil in London that respected commentators - on Monday for example Professor Roy Greenslade, the pre-eminent media pundit - are calling on Cameron's deputy Nick Clegg to table a motion of no confidence in the PM.

Last week, that would have been a joke. Today it doesn't seem so funny, or unlikely.

I declare an interest. I was one of the first people to be informed by Scotland Yard - London's Metropolitan Police - that my phone was being hacked by a private investigator working for Mr Murdoch. They visited me in my office in parliament and told me this, so I began a legal action which is set to come before the courts in December.

It didn't surprise me all that much in the light of my role as a leader of Britain's anti-war movement, a champion of the Palestinian cause for over 35 years, and a defender of Muslims both at home and abroad. Even Mr Murdoch wouldn't dispute the fact that these are causes far from his own heart. This throws up a contradiction now coming more clearly into focus. 

Prince Walid bin Talal bin Abdelaziz Al-Saud, the second biggest shareholder in News Corporation after Murdoch, recently gave an interview, on his yacht, to the BBC flagship programme Newsnight. The Saudi prince declared himself "a good friend" of Rupert Murdoch and his son James Murdoch (probably the next executive to be charged by the police in the scandal).

He defended both men briskly, but in doing so drew attention to the fact that he is the second biggest shareholder in the Murdoch empire, and that the Murdochs were major shareholders in his own Rotana media empire in the Middle East.

An unholy alliance, surely? Mr Murdoch is the co-owner, with Prince Walid, of Fox News - one of the most virulently anti-Muslim television stations in the world. The station gives a megaphone to the likes of Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and Sarah Palin. In the US, Fox's role was to throw gallons of petrol on the flames Islamophobia which were leading to the burning of the Holy Quran by vigilantes.

Then there is the so-called "Ground Zero Mosque" controversy. The planned building was, of course, not at Ground Zero. It was not a mosque but an Islamic centre. The centre was partially funded by Prince Walid, the co-owner with Murdoch of Islamophobic media fire-raisers including Fox News and the New York Post.

Prince Walid it will be recalled was roundly insulted by the government of New York City when they returned the cheque he donated to the victims of the 9/11 attacks. A glutton for punishment no doubt.

Murdoch's newspapers in Britain are little better than their US-counterparts and include photographs and sexualised images which would never see the light of day in Riyadh, the Saudi capital. As a whole it is safe to say that Murdoch's nearly 200 newspapers - and his television stations in so far as he can compel the latter which are more tightly regulated - are bastions of fanatically pro-Israel, anti-Muslim bigotry.

Yet they are co-owned by a member of the Saudi Royal family who not only approves of these practices, but regards the mogul Murdoch as his "good friend".


Murdoch's plans to take 100 per cent ownership of British Sky Broadcasting now lie in ruins like Ozymandias's broken statue. Aged 80, he may, at the pace we are moving, be ousted by his own shareholders before long.

His dream of a Sky Arabia, however, remains a clear and present danger. Like the tobacco manufacturers, the more they are run out of towns in the west the more they concentrate on selling their addictive poison in the east. NewsCorp, with Prince Walid, may be sailing your way. Beware of pirates ye Arabs.

George Galloway is a British politician, author, journalist and broadcaster who was a Member of Parliament in the UK from 1987 to 2010.

Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jul 2011 at 08:56
Neanderthal strikes again with a picture that looks like the Governator:

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/07/neanderthal-human-mating/
Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2011 at 19:15
Compiling the following posts from another thread:

When the US predominance in global power projection comes in competition with China's, which slowly but surely will happen, no matter how much both parties try to avoid it, they will become adversaries, Mearsheimer predicts as much and I agree with his views:


China's biggest weakness is its unsustainable and opaque one party system of government, which is prone to nepotism and idiosyncratic/whimsical leaders who are not accountable to the Chinese voting public, but only to a small group of their elite colleague in Communist Party, PLA, PLN and PLAF etc. US and others who do not want to see China rise too much too fast, will use this as a lever.

China and India are not benign powers, the term benign power is also kind of oxymoron. Powerful countries can never be benign, usually they will step on some toes while trying to secure their interest.

Asia is a very crowded space, there are billions of people in China and India, but around them in their neighborhood also there are billions of people in smaller countries. There are trade, transit, international water sharing, maritime space sharing and many other issues where China and India are already making neighbors nervous and jittery, it will only get worse with time.

To give some concrete examples, China, which is essentially a Han Chinese entity, have absorbed Inner Mongolia in itself, it has also occupied Tibet and Xinjiang and are engaged in demographic invasion in both of these regions to ensure that Han population there increases to more than 50-60% and eventually to 75-80%, to prevent a Soviet Union type breakup. Not only do they not share economic opportunities with the local indigenous population in Tibet and Xinjiang, they try to suppress their religious cultural activities and try to absorb them into the Han culture, which is a form of cultural genocide. As a result you have occasional outburst of riots and mayhem, because of the suppressed rage of the locals. 

If you ask the Chinese, what right do they have to occupy these regions, they mention that historically it was theirs, meaning under Yuan and Manchu dynasty rule, both of which were foreign dynasties at the time. To prevent calling them foreign, they claim them as one of their minority nations, which is true for Manchu, but not true for Mongols, who were able to save half of their country with the help of Soviet Russia. Even the area of Manchuria was a no go area for the Han during much of Manchu rule and later became a Japanese protectorate.

China is also damming up major international rivers in Tibet, such as Yarlung Tsangpo/Brahmaputra, Mekong etc., which provide sustenance to billions in downstream countries. India is damming up its shared rivers as well, at the detriment of downstream neighboring countries.

China has conflicts with Japan, Vietnam, Philippines and others about island ownership in South China Sea and Sea of Japan, there is no easy solution in sight.

China and India are able to get away with much, because they are large systems, they have competitive advantage and they are rising, so the balance of power is shifting to their favor, while the smaller neighbors cannot compete because of their size.

The situation in South America is different, the population versus resource pressure is much less than in Asia. So Brazil can afford to be a benign friendly giant.



Entity of Brazil is new, but India like China are old population centers, with a lot of history of warfare, kingdoms, empires, outside barbarian invasions, just like Europe.

In the period between 80 to 150 years ago, there was rivalry mainly between European powers, Germany can be called a new European power as well I think, as well as Italy, although they were not active in colonial ventures as early and as much as Spain, Portugal, Netherland, France and England.

USA with its huge land and increasing population, transplanted from Europe and freely intermixed, became the new great power, surpassing all other European powers in a divided, nationalistic and fragmented Europe, mainly because of its size of population and market, its single language and its cultural homogeneousness and its "dynamism", despite the setback during civil war, due in part to the slave dependent economy in the South. USA became a more effective large system than any other, which it proved with its performance in WW II.

Today China and India has essentially regrouped and are on the march to regain their past prominence and glory. The long term effect of the emergence of these two giants on the Eurasian land mass is fundamentally different than jockeying for power of the mainly European powers in the earlier era, except for Japan, it was essentially an intra European affair or more correctly intra Western affair.

The re-emergence of India and China has and will put further strain among its neighbors and will motivate them to form other large systems or unions to offset the coming imbalance.

The world is slowly going back to a status quo that it held between different regions before the Renaissance and its subsequent centuries, although the world today is far more populous and technologically advanced than those years in the past. What remains to be seen is what happens in the fragmented South East Asian, Middle East, Central Asian and Latin American region and the African continent.

My guess is that people will work to create their virtual large systems in these fragmented regions, even while nation states still exist, so that they can compete more effectively with status quo powers such as the West and emerging powers such as China and India.

But your main question about wars and conflicts and whether such calamities and catastrophes will happen while the world balance of power shifts, I think its entirely possible, because human nature has not changed much in a few centuries or decades, but the presence of MAD(Mutually Assured Destruction) and better communication and conflict management tools work as brakes on full scale and all out existential wars. It does not mean that full scale wars will not happen, there are as many or more short-sighted people on this planet today than there ever was in the past, but effective WMD's make full scale wars between Nuclear powers terribly expensive. So people are more careful about initiating wars and escalating them, specially when both parties have Nuclear weapons. This means that Nuclear weapons will get more wide spread and every region will have its latest and greatest array of Nuclear arsenals, pointing at rivals and "enemy" nations. It is also possible that WMD's in the future will be less dirty than than they are today and may be more effective at killing just human beings and not render the land unusable for generations, so victors can come in and make use of the land.

Although large scale wars, between large systems will be less common, there will continue to be insurgencies and low scale conflicts in many volatile regions that are not yet able to form effective large systems, as there is today.


Back to Top
eventhorizon View Drop Down
Baron
Baron


Joined: 21 Aug 2008
Status: Offline
Points: 432
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote eventhorizon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jul 2011 at 19:11
I forgot some factors, when the memory was refreshed it became clear that ASEAN+2 is not feasible for the time being, it is more like West+2, as these two nations, like lemming will fall from the precipice, following the light skinned people, but never look back.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.125 seconds.